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Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

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13 hours ago, apollo said:

Name 1 GM in the history of sports that's drafted his team the rookie of the year or the runner up 3 years in a row. I'll wait...

(calder in this case)

 

The Office Waiting GIF

 

23rd overall, 5th overall, 7th overall... this is not a video game. You should respect his vision and trust his process.

 

I'm begging you Canucks nation, stay positive and trust Jim's process. I had many doubts in him, you can go back to his first 5 years... I often questioned him and said he should be fired on these forums... but he's made amends and I'm confident that he is the man that will bring us our rightful cup.

 

Long live Lord Benning!

 

Edit: fixed... Rookie of the year or runner up without a single top 3 pick. No other GM has done this in all sports.

Dude look at all the dead cap. Being a gm is more than just drafting, hes terrible with asset management and contracts and cap management.

 

The bad outweighs the good.

 

Fire Benning.

 

You can't be a carpenter who is really good at cutting but can't build anything plumb level or square.

 

Jimbo is gonzo

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13 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

**** rookie of the year.  How about drafting three league MVPs?

 

Sam Presti:

 

Kevin Durant  (he did win rookie of the year as well)

Russell Wesbrook

James Harden

 

 

 

 

 

no one cares about basketball boring     ya Benning is unsurpassed in nhl drafting.

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9 hours ago, Provost said:

I put out various draft lists at the time and who we would have ended up with based on all the other major draft lists and BPA when we picked.  It was in a couple of threads about drafting.

Benning came out above average, but worse than some of the others... so ya, most of our draft success is based on how bad we have been for so long and how high we have been drafting.

The only clear "winner" that Benning picked over almost everyone else was Petterson.  Hughes and Boeser would have been picked by most lists where they were selected. On the other side guys like Nylander, Tkachuk, Ehlers, Pastrnak, etc were on those other lists that we missed on with Virtanen and Juolevi. 

Just listening to a guy like Craig Button who isn't paid by any team to scout and is a TV talking head, we end up with:

2014 - Ehlers, Kempe
2015 - B
oeser

2016 - Tkachuk
2017 - Glass
2018 - Hughes

I think Petterson is great, but no one is trading both Ehlers and Tkachuk for him.

ya I wouldn't trade Petey for a 1st and tkachuk  are u kidding me  kids gonna be hart trophy winner in next few yrs along with a few cups 

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Just hope Benning goes with youth rest of yr Juolevi, Macewen, Jasek, Lind deserve looks in the bigs. 

Trade Pearson, Edler, Sutter, Gaudette, Motte, Beagle, Benn for  draft picks retain cap if needed.

resign Vesey, Boyd, Hamoni,  Edler  for cheap yr deals after expansion

Sign Petey, Hughes, Demko, Tryamkin, Podkolzin, Malone, Mcdonagh. 

don't protect Roussel, Holtby, Eriksson or Myers no one will take them and if they do perfect.

Pay seattle a draft pick to take Roussel

Waive Eriksson hope he retires after mill bonus or enjoys utica bus rides.

Build out from young core and draft top 10 pick (good right man please)

Try also drafting a 200 ft winger who hits fights for 4th line and a 3rd line center that wins face-offs


2021-22 lineup

 

 Miller Petey Podkolzin

Hoglander Horvat Boeser

Vesey                    Virtanen

Macewen Boyd Lind

 

Edler Schmidt 

Hughes Tryamkin

 Juolevi Hamonic

Rathbone 

 

Demko

Holtby

 

 

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The polarization around Benning is frustrating to me. Its not all or nothing. He has a plan, its just not a particularly good or effective one. 

 

Drafting - B - overall drafting both in the first round and beyond has been solid. A few big whiffs, a few homeruns. Overall given the history of drafting in Van, no one should be able to fault him here. The only real fault I have with his drafting is he didnt make moves he needed to trade for more picks. He could have gotten even more value through the draft which I think would have the Canucks much further ahead. I also think Juolevi and Virtanen were pretty questionable but at least not off the charts terrible at the time.

 

Free Agent Signings/Resigning Players vs Trading Them - E - Not many of his UFA contracts have actually worked out and he has held onto players who should have been traded as pending UFA. Some moves have been marginal but many have been too long and too much money. His commitment to high priced grinder types for the bottom 6 combined with some of the worst pro scouting in the NHL is fast approaching Bill Murray in Groundhog Day levels of annoyingly repetitious.

 

His unwillingness to trade pending UFA players or package assets to get rid of big contract mistakes are intertwined. Had he sold at the deadline he would have had more picks. Given their relative success drafting outside the first round, this would have given him options and reduced the negative impact of trading picks to get rid of headaches. Trading picks for tweeners was a terrible strategy that burned the team many times.

 

As an aside, his ridiculously short sighted pursuit of OEL (like why the f was that even a thing ffs?) and subsequent f up of the Toffoli situation alone should be a fireable offense imo. I would have fired him right there. 

 

Trades - C minus - Again a mixed bag. Mostly bad to meh and has bled far too many picks for garbage tweeners. The Miller trade redeemed him somewhat but overall if i was deciding his fate based on his trading I would fire him.

 

Conclusion - He should be moved to amateur scouting head and the Canucks should hire a true well rounded guy to run the show. Sure, Aquilini may not want to pay him and another GM by firing him, so let him scout which is really all he is good at anyway.

 

I am not a Benning hater but its time for him to go.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I see you’re stuck in the past. Nowadays you should talk more about how he moves garbage like Tanev, Toffoli, Fantenberg and Stecher

Tanev deal was too long, Toffoli topic has been beaten to death on her and not our priority last summer improving on D was. Fantenberg and Stecher while good are replaceable .

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3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Tanev deal was too long, Toffoli topic has been beaten to death on her and not our priority last summer improving on D was. Fantenberg and Stecher while good are replaceable .

Both Fantenberg and Stecher would have got us a lot more points this season. 
Benn didn’t play due to Fantenberg. 
I would argue that Stecher was better for us than Schmidt are now. B)

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3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Tanev deal was too long, Toffoli topic has been beaten to death on her and not our priority last summer improving on D was. Fantenberg and Stecher while good are replaceable .

A topic being beaten to death doesn't mean it wasn't still a massive and avoidable mistake.

 

I can similarly say that Benning supporters mentioning the Pettersson pick is "beaten to death", but that's not fair.

Edited by Josepho
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6 hours ago, canuktravella said:

ya I wouldn't trade Petey for a 1st and tkachuk  are u kidding me  kids gonna be hart trophy winner in next few yrs along with a few cups 

That wasn’t the question, you literally just invented that.

If you wouldn’t trade Petterson for Ehlers AND Tkachuk (which was the post).... then that would explain why no one has ever called you to be an NHL GM, because every one of them makes that deal.

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6 hours ago, canuktravella said:

Just hope Benning goes with youth rest of yr Juolevi, Macewen, Jasek, Lind deserve looks in the bigs. 

Trade Pearson, Edler, Sutter, Gaudette, Motte, Beagle, Benn for  draft picks retain cap if needed.

resign Vesey, Boyd, Hamoni,  Edler  for cheap yr deals after expansion

Sign Petey, Hughes, Demko, Tryamkin, Podkolzin, Malone, Mcdonagh. 

don't protect Roussel, Holtby, Eriksson or Myers no one will take them and if they do perfect.

Pay seattle a draft pick to take Roussel

Waive Eriksson hope he retires after mill bonus or enjoys utica bus rides.

Build out from young core and draft top 10 pick (good right man please)

Try also drafting a 200 ft winger who hits fights for 4th line and a 3rd line center that wins face-offs


2021-22 lineup

 

 Miller Petey Podkolzin

Hoglander Horvat Boeser

Vesey                    Virtanen

Macewen Boyd Lind

 

Edler Schmidt 

Hughes Tryamkin

 Juolevi Hamonic

Rathbone 

 

Demko

Holtby

 

 

A lot of options, most of which I agree. Curious why you want to move Motte? IMHO he makes a huge dif to the bottom 6 when he is in the lineup. 

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12 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Myers

The overall handling of this past off-season

The overall handling of Virtanen (not cutting bait, especially this past off-season)

Holtby

Roussel

Beagle

Schaller

Any UFA that has walked for nothing in whatever time frame you like

 

Off the top of my head.

 

Is it worse than the first half of his tenure? Perhaps not, but that's a pretty low bar to set, is it not?

 

for me none of this rises to the firing level, even if I considered them all mistakes which I don't, other than Jake getting 2 years, they were too worried about over paying in arbitration imo.

 

I don't think that list outweighs the U25 group or the playoff experience.

 

Maybe a good comparison situation here is the Flyers. Are they really better off for canning Hextall? or was Fletecher just a lateral or worse move? 

 

I'm not convinced that there's a magic GM solution out there thats going to be better. 

 

I do think a new president of hockey op's is a good idea tho, and something Jim needs. If we could get someone who could bring in better pro-scouting staff with him that would fix our main issues imo. 

 

 

 

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Seems to be the same pro & fire JB arguments; IMO, JB is not going anywhere right now cause game day delployment, roster and strategies are still up to the coaches.  Preferably, I would like to see the youths play more given the teams current circumstances and it would be interesting to see this roster with a different staff (eventhough, playing a veteran laden line up - especially, in the D core - it is still Demko who is the main reason for the wins cause the structure doesn't project any stabilty).

 

Also, at this point, it would safe to add Demko (drafted 36th) as another one of JBs' gem and I'll bet the Calgary Canucks' would rather have him rather than Mason McDonald who they drafted 34th overall that year (another fact for those OJ vs Tkachuk posters - time to move on).  JB has drafted four core players instead of trading for them and sure his signings has sucked - with hindsight - but those will mostly be gone in two years - two years more of reloading and whambulancing (with the usual lecturing) from the local expert(s).  Preferably, the staff and most/all of our FA's will walk; hopefully, Aquaman hires a team president that can work with JB; JB stops signing 30+ vets to term to act as mentors (rather sign similar vets as coaches instead) and stick to drafting & developement. 

 

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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12 hours ago, Aladeen said:

You’re assuming TT was willing to sign for what he signed for in Montreal, you don’t know that’s the case at all.

He expressed loads of interest to stay, so most likely would've. The fact is we didn't have the cap space for a bonafide top 6 player due to terrible contracts hampering the team. Plus how Jim handled everything was so amateur , putting all his eggs in the OEK chase. The fact we lost assets as well for a rebuilding team for nothing is plain unacceptable. Toffoli trade was a good one if they were able to retain, which they failed to do so. Basically sums up what Jim's tenure has been here, lose assets and hand them out not gain and stockpile like we should've been doing.

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imo, the OP and others should be saying that, they can't see a clear plan over the past 7 years. it doesn't mean they haven't got one. has it all worked out, no. when i look at what is on the team or coming soon makes me very hopeful.

petey, boeser, miller, demko, horvat, podkolzin. hoglander, motte, lind, hughes, schmidt, myers, woo, rathbone, juolevi and maybe hawryluk, boyd and macewen.

once eriksson, pearson, sutter, edler, benn, virtanen, roussel, beagle and holtby are gone, this team will look closer to JB's vision of this team.

now if they can draft a clarke in the draft, our future defence will look very good.

if players aren't traded or resigned, the place holders will be gone in 2 years.

then hopefully JB can add enough, speed, grit and compete to take us to a stanley cup.

good work JB. so far. yes the glass is half full.

 

Edited by smithers joe
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