Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[appleboy]

6 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

We needed another Benning thread.  I was just getting worried that there weren't enough.

 

I'm feeling a little sorry for the bear who was stripped from his bones.

 

It was getting a little boring on here.   If you get your kicks out of spell checking , I am OK with that.   

 

I think the organizational plan starts with the owners. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, apollo said:

Again same thing as Chicago and Pittsburgh GM's getting their picks... its no where near as impressive when you always drafting top 3.

 

#2 Overall Durant... Westbrook #4 , Harder #3 ...

 

JIm did it with 5, 7 23... and Demmer 36

 

League MVP though with a guy like King James around.  

[Coconuts]

Benning is clearly a baritone 

[c00kies]

I'd say his biggest recent mistake was not re-signing Toffoli to a solid deal; if you take him off Montreal and put him on our team, we're in the playoffs and Montreal is easily out.

 

We lack depth, despite all the money put into it. Right now, our bottom 2 lines are out there to kill time and rest our top 2 lines, and our defense still lacks identity and balance.

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Coconuts said:

Benning is clearly a baritone 

Marchand is a soprano after this:

 

 

[apollo]

3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I agree that the club has drafted well under Jim. We all do. 

So is that the plan? Fumble through year after year with no direction?        How many extra draft picks could have been acquired if there was an organized plan to maximize assets?

No the plan is to trust his process and be patient. Aquaman told us that was the plan as well... to all of us that it wasn't already clear to.

 

Jim is the guy for the job. No ones done what he's accomplished...

 

As @NewbieCanuckFan mentioned Sam Presti picks were epic, but he did it with a 2nd 3rd and 4th overall pick... it's not the same.

 

[JM_]

40 minutes ago, appleboy said:

 

Maybe you see things differently. Please enlighten me.

 

 

Years 1-4: Aqua-Linden Sedin rejiggy

Years 5-now: fixing the Aqua-Linden Sedin rejiggy

[-DLC-]

On a serious note:

 

Rebuild doesn't mean this is a house that you can go out and buy all new materials for.  There is no RONA NHL shop.  Rebuild means you have to strip it down but some of what you're rebuilding with WILL come in the form of recycled players.  And if our drafting was good....that's lending itself toward support of a rebuild (even if not an immediate add in).

 

I'm not sure what you think a rebuild looks like?

 

Bottom line is he certainly has handcuffed this team with some things that maybe weren't optimum....but you roll the dice a lot in this business.  Because of the human element, you cannot predict, with certainty, how players will pan out and/or live up to contracts.  When they work...genius.  When they don't....failure.  But it's not really in the control of those picking the players, as sometimes the history doesn't line up with the story moving forward.

 

Many around me feel he's past his best before date and I don't necessarily disagree.   If nothing more than because sometimes a fresh perspective is helpful.

 

Making deals for other team's leftovers is what all teams do to some degree.  It doesn't mean these players are all useless....sometimes they're not a fit and an organization needs something different, that's all.  The big problem for me is in the long term deals because when those don't pan out, you're stuck with them.  Generally they're hard to unload and that's where you pay for the mistake.  But there is no foreseeing that....except to steer clear of those deals and hopefully they're learning a bit about that.

 

I'm pretty happy about where this team's at....it's about perspective and seeing a future but some keep dwelling on the past.  

[appleboy]

1 minute ago, apollo said:

No the plan is to trust his process and be patient. Aquaman told us that was the plan as well... to all of us that it wasn't already clear to.

 

Jim is the guy for the job. No ones done what he's accomplished...

 

As @NewbieCanuckFan mentioned Sam Presti picks were epic, but he did it with a 2nd 3rd and 4th overall pick... it's not the same.

 

This is the plan?

[AV.]

In seriousness, the "plan" has changed multiple times and been reimagined on the fly.  That has led to the execution behind exacting these plans to miss the mark quite frequently.

 

Whether it was building a winning team in the beginning, or retooling/rebuilding now, there's been a cycle of one step forward and two steps back with a lot of the moves.  Drafting has been fairly consistent, which is great, but pro scouting and asset management, to date, have been atrocious and we have suffered immensely for it.

 

Peaks and troughs, ups and downs, are inevitable, especially in the proverbial grind to the "top", but the extent to which we hit these troughs, these lows, are far too frequent.  This most recent set of lows after our success in the bubble has especially been damaging.

 

So, what is the plan?  Well, 3 weeks ago, we were "2 years away", and last week going into this week, we were seeing if this team could ride a string of wins into the playoffs and refusing to sell assets because of that.  That says it all.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Alain Vigneault

[the grinder]

the plan has always been draft and develop players in the system ,  the first thing benning  did was set up was the team in Utica , even last year  benning indicated they are going to have 6 to 8 young player in the line up over the next few years ,   Demko is the prime example of that developed player  in the system  and now has translated to the nhl . So there is a plan , some just choose not to see it . 

[Aladeen]

Honestly I would put us a couple of years behind the Avs in our rebuild. They started before us I would say since about 2009 and have had a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th (not counting ottawa's in trade) overall in that time frame. No doubt JB has made some errors but the trajectory is not all that different than the Avs and that is without them getting the gift of cap recapture.

 

IMO I would put the Canucks Right where Colorado was in 2015-16.

 

Not that bad people. 

[apollo]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

League MVP though with a guy like King James around.  

What age did they win MVP lol... this is exactly why I'm saying trust Jim's process... some people have 0 patience / sense.

 

Harden first MVP .......... 29 YEARS OLD!

Westbrook first MVP......... omg 29 again!

Durant first MVP ...... 26 years old

 

Relax man Petey is 22... Quinn is 21... Brocky is 24... THE WORLD IS NOT ENDING! They aren't busts... they've all won calder or were 1st runner up... and in BOTH cases of runner ups, they are out performing Barzal and Makar...

 

Do you see why I go nuts over this? How does 20% of our fan base just absolutely not see this?!

 

You don't think any of these 3 guys win MVP or more importantly bring home a cup?

 

[the grinder]

3 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

In seriousness, the "plan" has changed multiple times and been reimagined on the fly.  That has led to the execution behind exacting these plans to miss the mark quite frequently.

 

Whether it was building a winning team in the beginning, or retooling/rebuilding now, there's been a cycle of one step forward and two steps back with a lot of the moves.  Drafting has been fairly consistent, which is great, but pro scouting and asset management, to date, has been atrocious and we have suffered immensely for it.

 

Peaks and troughs, ups and downs, are inevitable, especially in the proverbial grind to the "top", but the extent to which we hit these troughs, these lows, are far too frequent.  This most recent set of lows after our success in the bubble has especially been damaging.

 

So, what is the plan?  Well, 3 weeks ago, we were "2 years away" and last week going into this week, we were seeing if this team could ride a string of wins into the playoffs and refusing to sell assets because of that.  That says it all.

how do you know we wont be trading assets ?  lol   

[AV.]

Just now, the grinder said:

how do you know we wont be trading assets ?  lol   

I didn't say that we wouldn't be trading assets.  I was pointing out the inconsistency in the team's planning.

 

Hope this helps.

[Grape]

40 minutes ago, apollo said:

Name 1 GM in the history of sports that's drafted his team the rookie of the year or the runner up 3 years in a row. I'll wait...

(calder in this case)

 

 

23rd overall, 5th overall, 7th overall... this is not a video game. You should respect his vision and trust his process.

 

I'm begging you Canucks nation, stay positive and trust Jim's process. I had many doubts in him, you can go back to his first 5 years... I often questioned him and said he should be fired on these forums... but he's made amends and I'm confident that he is the man that will bring us our rightful cup.

 

Long live Lord Benning!

 

Edit: fixed... Rookie of the year or runner up without a single top 3 pick. No other GM has done this in all sports.

Drafting is more of a crapshoot than anything any GM does. The key is to accumulate a volume of picks and high picks. Benning won't be drafting 3 consecutive Calder nominees or anything close to that consistently throughout his tenure, that's entirely unsustainable.

 

What might be sustainable unfortunately is his inability to run the team in almost all other aspects other than drafting. Being bad at FA signings, trades, roster construction, cap management etc... are not things you can chalk up to chance as much as drafting. 

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

On a serious note:

 

Rebuild doesn't mean this is a house that you can go out and buy all new materials for.  There is no RONA NHL shop.  Rebuild means you have to strip it down but some of what you're rebuilding with WILL come in the form of recycled players.  And if our drafting was good....that's lending itself toward support of a rebuild (even if not an immediate add in).

 

I'm not sure what you think a rebuild looks like?

 

Bottom line is he certainly has handcuffed this team with some things that maybe weren't optimum....but you roll the dice a lot in this business.  Because of the human element, you cannot predict, with certainty, how players will pan out and/or live up to contracts.  When they work...genius.  When they don't....failure.  But it's not really in the control of those picking the players, as sometimes the history doesn't line up with the story moving forward.

 

Many around me feel he's past his best before date and I don't necessarily disagree.   If nothing more than because sometimes a fresh perspective is helpful.

 

Making deals for other team's leftovers is what all teams do to some degree.  It doesn't mean these players are all useless....sometimes they're not a fit and an organization needs something different, that's all.  The big problem for me is in the long term deals because when those don't pan out, you're stuck with them.  Generally they're hard to unload and that's where you pay for the mistake.  But there is no foreseeing that....except to steer clear of those deals and hopefully they're learning a bit about that.

 

I'm pretty happy about where this team's at....it's about perspective and seeing a future but some keep dwelling on the past.  

I am also very happy with the small group of players that we have landed through the draft. My concern is that we landed them because many of the decisions Jim made didn't work. This put us into a better draft position. We got the high picks by default.

 

The cap issues that we currently have will soon be in the rear view mirror and there will be a chance for a fresh start. We have some critical contacts coming up. They have decisions to make that will shape this club for the next ten years. Is this the management to make those decisions?

 

 

[c00kies]

11 minutes ago, apollo said:

What age did they win MVP lol... this is exactly why I'm saying trust Jim's process... some people have 0 patience / sense.

 

Harden first MVP .......... 29 YEARS OLD!

Westbrook first MVP......... omg 29 again!

Durant first MVP ...... 26 years old

 

Relax man Petey is 22... Quinn is 21... Brocky is 24... THE WORLD IS NOT ENDING! They aren't busts... they've all won calder or were 1st runner up... and in BOTH cases of runner ups, they are out performing Barzal and Makar...

 

Do you see why I go nuts over this? How does 20% of our fan base just absolutely not see this?!

 

You don't think any of these 3 guys win MVP or more importantly bring home a cup?

 

Ehhh Makar is in the running for the Norris, despite missed time. I think Makar is the better defenseman this season, but we'll see if Hughes can get back on track soon.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Aladeen said:

Honestly I would put us a couple of years behind the Avs in our rebuild. They started before us I would say since about 2009 and have had a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th (not counting ottawa's in trade) overall in that time frame. No doubt JB has made some errors but the trajectory is not all that different than the Avs and that is without them getting the gift of cap recapture.

 

IMO I would put the Canucks Right where Colorado was in 2015-16.

 

Not that bad people. 

Basically this. It's coming along just fine. We're at or ahead of where we 'should' be compared to the likes of the Avs.

 

The plan from the beginning was always to rebuild a new core/support pieces from the draft (largely accomplished) while supplementing the existing NHL team with trades and signings to ice a team and insulate those drafted kids. Keep building, keep adding, keep supporting.

 

Nothing has changed in that regard. It evolves as the team evolves. I honestly don't know what the big 'mystery' is with the plan. It seems completely obvious to me and has for years. 

 

Only thing I can think of is that because the team didn't to a complete 'tear down' style rebuild like a lot of folks wanted, they have trouble seeing past that to see the forest for the trees and get hung up on minutia. IMO it's a bit myopic and short sighted.

[Abysmal Moniker]

34 minutes ago, appleboy said:

All you had to add is spelling?

You asked for enlightenment. Your main point, such as it is, has already been answered roughly a thousand times in a thousand different threads, so I responded in a way I thought might be helpful.