aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said: Sutter and Beagle are not good players. The idea that they do well in their minutes is just wrong and it has been for years. They're black holes on offense and they don't make that up with special defense in any way. Every canuck above 29% is a top six forward. Every Canuck in the limited and soft minutes is Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Gaudette, Virtanen, etc. Motte is the guy in the sizeable but sheltered minutes category. There's no analytic or eye test measure that indicates that Beagle and Sutter are great players other than people making up bull$&!# about intangibles to justify their incorrect opinions. You're wrong but fill your boots with cute charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: I had a response...you then replied with this nothingburger: Great, this response makes no sense - just a merry go round type comment. Tag your it. Edited March 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 One thing I can say for sure in this thread there’s sure are a lot of JB haters with perfect 20/20 hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, spur1 said: One thing I can say for sure in this thread there’s sure are a lot of JB haters with perfect 20/20 hindsight. You want to take over or join in - ?? Lol Edited March 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said: Great, this response makes no sense - just a merry go round type comment. Tag your it. You serve up a nothingburger, you get nothingburger lobbed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: You serve up a nothingburger, you get nothingburger lobbed back. Very predictable - adds nothing to the original discussion and thanks to you it has digressed to this - Edited March 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ShawnAntoski said: Very predictable - adds nothing to the original discussion and thanks to you it has digressed to this - I seem to still be having productive debate with other posters here...hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said: Sutter and Beagle are not good players. The idea that they do well in their minutes is just wrong and it has been for years. They're black holes on offense and they don't make that up with special defense in any way. Every canuck above 29% is a top six forward. Every Canuck in the limited and soft minutes is Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Gaudette, Virtanen, etc. Motte is the guy in the sizeable but sheltered minutes category. There's no analytic or eye test measure that indicates that Beagle and Sutter are great players other than people making up bull$&!# about intangibles to justify their incorrect opinions. Sorry but that is one awful take. Did you just refer to Motte's as "sheltered minutes"? And that is just one god awful, meaningless chart. "war" chart - right up there with the fittingly extinct "hero" chart. Want to have a run at attempting to explain that chart - and what you base your assumptions on as a result? Edited March 28, 2021 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just so that people understand why I did this thread. It is not a Jim Benning hate thread. Jim has made a lot of mistakes but he has also done a lot of good. I am one of those who thinks that the owners are playing a huge role in the team direction. Yes ,I think they meddle. I am suggesting that there has been no consistent plan over the last 7 years. There was no planned rebuild during the Sedin era. They acquired some high picks through those years because the team sucked. Even once we were told that we might be retooling they did things like trade prospects and picks for a rental like Toffoli. ( Guddy trade) I have no problem with Jimbo. I would like to see a quality president put in place. I would like to see a consistent plan of attack put into place for the next five years. I would like to feel that they are not flying by the seat of their pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: I seem to still be having productive debate with other posters here...hmmm Yeah, name calling is always the last thing to do now a days - very predictable. Tag Edited March 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, appleboy said: I would like to see a consistent plan of attack put into place for the next five years. I would like to feel that they are not flying by the seat of their pants. Problem is, this strikes me far more as projection than reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, aGENT said: Problem is, this strikes me far more as projection than reality. Yeah, you can make it to be whatever make you happy. Any more enlightening takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, ShawnAntoski said: Yeah, name calling is always the last thing to do now a days - very predictable. Tag To be fair I also called myself the pot. Or was it the kettle? So hard to tell Besides, it's not particularly name calling, more so pointing out hypocrisy of someone who gave up trying to actually debate about 10 posts ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, ShawnAntoski said: Yeah, you can make it to be whatever make you happy. Any more enlightening takes. No, you guys are right, it's far more probable that a billionaire owner and an entire executive team with decades of NHL management experience have absolutely zero plan and are flying entirely by the seats of their pants because you guys can't seem to grasp a plan that doesn't fit in to your narrow, #properrebuild format. WAAAY more likely than someone projecting their confusion of said plan on to them as a 'lack of plan'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just because there is a plan in place doesn’t mean that you don’t have to fly by the seat of your pants at times. Did you plan for Covid? Many game plans go out the window once you get punched in the nose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: Problem is, this strikes me far more as projection than reality. Every year they will make projections that may not become reality. They would only be keys to whether the plan would be successful or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, spur1 said: Just because there is a plan in place doesn’t mean that you don’t have to fly by the seat of your pants at times. Did you plan for Covid? Many game plans go out the window once you get punched in the nose. There is also this. You can have all the plans you want and they mean squat when reality bends you over and has it's way with you. Pre-covid I'm sure there was a 'plan' to retain Toffoli...well sometimes you gotta float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, aGENT said: I don't know what's so confusing about this but... WE WEREN'T A GOOD TEAM. WE WERE (still are... finishing off) REBUILDING. We'll be spending money on our top 6 and top 4 soon enough. And even then, as I pointed out elsewhere, good teams do in fact spend a fair bit of cap in their bottom 6 and bottom pair. Look at Tampa and ST Louis cup winning rosters. Look at the Canucks when we went to the cup final. Hindsight (and would have been exceedingly poor planning IMO). You need two good goalies in this league, ESPECIALLY this season. Especially with one as young and inexperienced as Demko. Demko falters and you folk would have had another spike to use on Benning's cross. He hasn't. But the team in front of him hasn't either. Nor did he get hardly any practice time, with a brand new team, for the first month. Small and far from ideal sample. I don't think we've seen anything close to peak Canuck-Holtby. I see pretty much zero chance of it. Sorry but that's just Benning-hate talk. Covid cap, age etc...they're both taking hair cuts. Sutter's likely looking at $1.5-$2 give or take and Pearson +/- $2.5m IMO. I'm perfectly fine moving them and re-signing (or not) in the offseason. Moving them assumes that you have a dance partner though. Another team has to want them, not care about Pearson's injury, quarantine periods etc. While we certainly should explore gaining assets for them (and almost certainly are), there's no guarantee they actually do get moved. I am not confused at all. The Canucks were a $&!#ty team that refused to actually admit they were rebuilding for a long time. You actually prove my point. GOOD teams only spend on their bottom 6 when they are actually good. They didnt re-sign Sutter (foundational player), and sign Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, Holtby, Myers, etc simply as placeholders until we were good. The key to knowing what I say is true there is TERM. Benning clearly thought they were completing the ill advised retool. The Holtby signing is not hindsight for me. It was unnecessary the day it was signed and is even less so now. Holtby has played like crap so not only do we not have two good goalies, we also dont have a top 6 winger or top 4 dman that cap could have bought. Making excuses for Holtby's play is just to rationalize another dumb Benning signing. Holtby has been garbage and every player has been impacted by the covid season. Maybe he is just regressing fromthat Vezina win/playing on a top team thing? There is pretty much zero chance Sutter and Pearson take that much of a haircut to stay in Van. Some other dumb gm will give them more. Its funny how the go to excuse for Benning's lack of moving basically any pending ufa is that no one wants them. Other GM's seem to have no problem. Funny, hey? Benning is a day by day guy that has some paralysus by analysis often waiting until windows of opportunity close. Thats not hyperbole or even opinion and its certainly not Benning-hate. Its simply the truth based on years of evidence. Edited March 28, 2021 by wallstreetamigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: To be fair I also called myself the pot. Or was it the kettle? So hard to tell Besides, it's not particularly name calling, more so pointing out hypocrisy of someone who gave up trying to actually debate about 10 posts ago. Everything, I have posted is reocrded,in this thread and people or even you can see where it started to digress. I had stated earlier to just agree to disagree and you continued with your emoji filled response of garbble - as I am bored right now, I engaged to see if it would comeback to any discussion with substance and now it has turned to this (lesson learned about the trapping of this forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: I am not confused at all. The Canucks were a $&!#ty team that refused to actually admit they were rebuilding for a long time. You actually prove my point. GOOD teams only spend on their bottom 6 when they are actually good. They didnt re-sign Sutter (foundational player), and sign Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, Holtby, Myers, etc simply as placeholders until we were good. The key to knowing what I say is true there is TERM. Benning clearly thought they were completing the ill advised retool. The Holtby signing is not hindsight for me. It was unnecessary the day it was signed and is even less so now. Holtby has played like crap so not only do we not have two good goalies, we also dont have a top 6 winger or top 4 dman that cap could have bought. Making excuses for Holtby's play is just to rationalize another dumb Benning signing. Holtby has been garbage and There is pretty much zero chance Sutter and Pearson take that much of a haircut to stay in Van. Some other dumb gm will give them more. Its funny how the go to excuse for Benning's lack of moving basically any pending ufa is that no one wants them. Other GM's seem to have no problem. Funny, hey? Benning is a day by day guy that has some paralysus by analysis often waiting until windows of opportunity close. Thats not hyperbole or even opinion and its certainly not Benning-hate. Its simply the truth based on years of evidence. Who’s truth? Like I said, just 20/20 hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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