appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, you guys are right, it's far more probable that a billionaire owner and an entire executive team with decades of NHL management experience have absolutely zero plan and are flying entirely by the seats of their pants because you guys can't seem to grasp a plan that doesn't fit in to your narrow, #properrebuild format. WAAAY more likely than someone projecting their confusion of said plan on to them as a 'lack of plan'. After 7 years one might think that even the most uneducated of us peasants might start to see an inkling of some sort of a plan? It is not like the fans haven't been patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, you guys are right, it's far more probable that a billionaire owner and an entire executive team with decades of NHL management experience have absolutely zero plan and are flying entirely by the seats of their pants because you guys can't seem to grasp a plan that doesn't fit in to your narrow, #properrebuild format. WAAAY more likely than someone projecting their confusion of said plan on to them as a 'lack of plan'. You are obviously confusing the discussion as I had said mulitiple times that I am only commenting a point fo view but it seems you are good at this game. Never said my point of view is right or wrong just trying to talk hockey with a fellow fan. The merry go round is all yours.. With hindsight, JB deserves some criticism but those same moves can also defended with some context. Iam more so looking forward to how he will evolve as GM in these next few years, given how his previous moves had affected the current state of the team Edited March 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, aGENT said: There is also this. You can have all the plans you want and they mean squat when reality bends you over and has it's way with you. Pre-covid I'm sure there was a 'plan' to retain Toffoli...well sometimes you gotta float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Yeah, on paper it works well, until reality has some say on it... Edited March 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, aGENT said: There is also this. You can have all the plans you want and they mean squat when reality bends you over and has it's way with you. Pre-covid I'm sure there was a 'plan' to retain Toffoli...well sometimes you gotta float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. All covid did is bring to surface the fact that their cap management was horrible. One might say, done without a long term plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 19 hours ago, Josepho said: If Benning desperately wanted his "cup champ mentor" in the 2018 offseason, then signing Filppula or Kunitz is what he should've done. There's a ton of those guys you can acquire cheaply or more efficiently than Beagle. Hopelessly oversimplified. It's one thing to actually understand the 'plan' - and then speak to what it actually was/is - and criticize it. It's another to have no idea - and then come onto these boards with oversimplified whiffs/one-liners - and wind up with nothing of substance in the process. First - Filppula is a 3 million cap hit = no more cheap or 'efficient' than Beagle. Second - Beagle is a hard minutes center, a top faceoff guy in the league - outstanding penalty killer. He is here to play a specific role - to eat hard and pk minutes - and to complement/insulate a very young top 6 - a rolethat Filppula would be a poor option to fill - no grit, not a particularly good faceoff guy, not a hard minutes center = literally no point in signing him to play a bottom six center role. If you're desperately wanting to reduce/misrepresent the point of the signing - then yeah, any 'mentor' might seem to be an equivalent - however, you're neither understanding the point of the signing / not thinking as the team was/what they wanted - and therefore the simplistic attempt to one-up them is a fail imo. Filppula - was a top 6 forward = 10 years ago - who is now a tweener at best - and would be a misfit / borderline useless here / zero point signing him. Kunitz was a winger - who hasn't played an NHL game since 2019 - had 5 goals that season - didn't kill a single penalty.....makes literally no sense as a Beagle alternative. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, spur1 said: Who’s truth? Like I said, just 20/20 hindsight. Nope not even close. They were letting Markstrom walk. They already had a starting goalie. Then it seems they panicked and felt they had to sign a declining 2nd starting goalie just in case. Pretty much the wrong contract, player, and reasoning from the moment it was signed that yes in hindsight looks that much worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 On 3/26/2021 at 9:53 AM, appleboy said: So what is the plan? Be active at trade deadline? Playoffs at all cost? This club has been lacking a real plan of attack for years. Maybe you see things differently. Please enlighten me. Is that a serious question? Are those the only two (straw) options you can imagine? If so - I'm not surprised you haven't glimpsed any plan(s) over the past 7 years. Only you can enlighten yourself btw. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: I am not confused at all. The Canucks were a $&!#ty team that refused to actually admit they were rebuilding for a long time. Admit or advertise? Both? I think they knew they needed to draft a new core from day one but still wanted support the twins the best they could, as long as they could. You may not agree with that, and that's fine. Doesn't mean it was 'wrong' though. Maybe less efficient, sure. Just now, wallstreetamigo said: You actually prove my point. GOOD teams only spend on their bottom 6 when they are actually good. Says who? OTT just spent a fortune on support vets last summer, how are they doing? Just now, wallstreetamigo said: They didnt re-sign Sutter (foundational player), and sign Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, Holtby, Myers, etc simply as placeholders until we were good. The key to knowing what I say is true there is TERM. Benning clearly thought they were completing the ill advised retool. Some of those guys (Like Eriksson and no, I don't support that one) were to attempt to compete (especially pre Sedin retirement), some are short-term term rebuild support guys, some a bit of both. I don't think that's what Benning thought at all. Just now, wallstreetamigo said: The Holtby signing is not hindsight for me. It was unnecessary the day it was signed and is even less so now. Holtby has played like crap so not only do we not have two good goalies, we also dont have a top 6 winger or top 4 dman that cap could have bought. Making excuses for Holtby's play is just to rationalize another dumb Benning signing. Holtby has been garbage and I disagree. Need a good vet for a young guy. Especially in this seasons condensed schedule. You need an 'Elliott' to your 'Hart'. If you want to make 'absolute' assessments on his play on far from ideal, short term sample sizes, that's your prerogative. I won't agree that's wise. Just now, wallstreetamigo said: There is pretty much zero chance Sutter and Pearson take that much of a haircut to stay in Van. Some other dumb gm will give them more. Just now, wallstreetamigo said: Its funny how the go to excuse for Benning's lack of moving basically any pending ufa is that no one wants them. That's not actually what I said. I think under normal circumstances (no quarantine, not injured etc) there'd be plenty of interest. Just now, wallstreetamigo said: Other GM's seem to have no problem. Funny, hey? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Just like Benning. Just now, wallstreetamigo said: Benning is a day by day guy that has some paralysus by analysis often waiting until windows of opportunity close. Thats not hyperbole or even opinion and its certainly not Benning-hate. Its simply the truth based on years of evidence. It's actually projecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, appleboy said: After 7 years one might think that even the most uneducated of us peasants might start to see an inkling of some sort of a plan? It is not like the fans haven't been patient. I have a pretty clear grasp on the plan. It's really not that confusing if you are able to move past your own preconceptions on a #properrebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, oldnews said: Is that a serious question? Are those the only two (straw) options you can imagine? If so - I'm not surprised you haven't glimpsed any plan(s) over the past 7 years. Only you can enlighten yourself btw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: I have a pretty clear grasp on the plan. It's really not that confusing if you are able to move past your own preconceptions on a #properrebuild. There has been evidence of lots of different plans or directions. One step forward and two steps back. Nothing consistent. All over the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, aGENT said: I have a pretty clear grasp on the plan. It's really not that confusing if you are able to move past your own preconceptions on a #properrebuild. The long term plan is not to just make the playoffs. Not to just win a Cup. The plan is to win several Cups. Smell what JB is cooking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, aGENT said: Admit or advertise? Both? I think they knew they needed to draft a new core from day one but still wanted support the twins the best they could, as long as they could. You may not agree with that, and that's fine. Doesn't mean it was 'wrong' though. Maybe less efficient, sure. Says who? OTT just spent a fortune on support vets last summer, how are they doing? Some of those guys (Like Eriksson and no, I don't support that one) were to attempt to compete (especially pre Sedin retirement), some are short-term term rebuild support guys, some a bit of both. I don't think that's what Benning thought at all. I disagree. Need a good vet for a young guy. Especially in this seasons condensed schedule. You need an 'Elliott' to your 'Hart'. If you want to make 'absolute' assessments on his play on far from ideal, short term sample sizes, that's your prerogative. I won't agree that's wise. That's not actually what I said. I think under normal circumstances (no quarantine, not injured etc) there'd be plenty of interest. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Just like Benning. It's actually projecting. Want to ask an unrelated question. Was it you who got hired to work for the Canucks? I thought someone on here did and dont know why my memory is telling me it was you. 4+ year contracts arent short term though. Holtby has been terrible and there is a reason he is not seeing much net now isnt there? We have heard the no one is interested in our ufa players for many years without covid though. Other than Hansen and Burrows, what other pending UFA of consequence has he traded at the deadline? Ottawa is an absolute train wreck of a team. If they do it other GM's should automatically do the opposite just on general principal. Lets not use themas a conparison to what we want our own GM to do ok? Like I said, trying to remain competitive was not the right call for several years but I at least understood it to some degree. Unfortunately it was not helped by Bennings terrible pro scouting and signings. I think its fair to blame;Benning for that outcome isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, spur1 said: The long term plan is not to just make the playoffs. Not to just win a Cup. The plan is to win several Cups. Smell what JB is cooking Thats not a plan its a goal btw. And nothing in Bennings plan screams that it is going to happen on his watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: Thats not a plan its a goal btw. And nothing in Bennings plan screams that it is going to happen on his watch. Nothing more than your opinion. All without even having a clue what the plan is. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, spur1 said: Nothing more than your opinion. All without even having a clue what the plan is. Lol Do you understand the difference between a plan and a goal? Saying you want to win multiple cups is a nice "what". The actual plan to get there is the "how" though. And there is really nothing to suggest the Canucks are on that path. And 7 years in Benning is now asking for 2 more years of the same. Its pretty clear his plan, often with conflicting moves between rebuilding and trying to fast track a playoff return, is not working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Was the plan to have 0 cap space to improve the team for 2020/21 and 2021/22. Was the plan to be cash strapped when they had to sign Petey and Hughes? Covid has actually saved them , gave them an excuse to reduce spending so they can sign the two stars. Edited March 28, 2021 by appleboy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 I think ownership has seen the lack of planning when it comes to dealing with the cap and has shut Jim down. I also think we will see a president of operations be added for next year. I don't think Jim is allowed to make any moves without it going by Aquaman. His check book has been taken away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtbc829 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Aquaman is totally to blame....should have listened to Trevor....but oh no....have to win now....and then Benning and his stupid deals....more misses than hits....frack you Aquaman.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, oldnews said: Sorry but that is one awful take. Did you just refer to Motte's as "sheltered minutes"? And that is just one god awful, meaningless chart. "war" chart - right up there with the fittingly extinct "hero" chart. Want to have a run at attempting to explain that chart - and what you base your assumptions on as a result? Don't have to explain my thoughts to a guy who thinks Gudbranson and Tanev are equal level players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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