Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[ShawnAntoski]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:32 AM, aGENT said:

Well exactly, we were never going after say... Ovechkin this year. It wouldn't be time for a move like that even if we had $10m in spare cap. (And guys like him would be complaining about the cap hit if we did!)

 

Growth from within, continue to age out vets, tweak the perimeter of the roster with some cheap, short term Covid depth. 

Or Covid cast off - there will be lots available if 'the trend' continues.  This FA season will say alot about how the owners are preparing for the covid economy.

Edited April 4, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[appleboy]

They won't have money to make any type of splash in the UFA market next year. Unless the contracts for Hughes and Petey come in much lower then we think.  Maybe this covid mess will encourage those guys to sign a reasonable bridge. Just to protect themselves from the uncertainty of this market.  

 

 

[steviewonder20]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:13 AM, BENN said:

Just a question for how many years we will have a championship contending team if things go accordingly through the plan.

Bo is 25 soon to be 26, Boeser 25.

our defense is thin.

coach is not that impressive.

 

I like canucks to be a "draft and develop" franchise and always "a playoff team" with a clear system and clear identity.

with a great prospect pool and depth, with a clear brand of hockey playing, a franchise with system ,culture and patience.

hope Benning does not screw it up, I think Linden view was what I said above,maybe i am mistaken as I usually am.

with this coaching system that is installed in Van, I do not see this vision happening.

According to an article I read last week, we have only one prospect in the NHL top 100 (Podz at #75). Love to see some vets moved for picks if anyone wants our sloppy seconds.

[HockeyHarry]

This thread LoL

In 50 years the Canucks have never ever have had a plan. ever.

 

this Jimbo Team is the closest Canucks have ever had too any kind of long term plan. Draft develope play.

 

ive heard the Vancouver media come up with this BS no plan story, Come on......it’s BS.

 Let’s make this thread in 5 years after the draft picks, cycle or don’t cycle on too this Canuck team. 

 

One of the the biggest problems is the Vancouver Fans and media,.....example. What’s Canucks going to do at the TDL. Fans Media want tons of stupid short term things too happen,.....or it’s fire Jimbo every year.....then it’s fire Jimbo they got no draft picks cuz he used them at the TDL to plz the mob.

 

Just stay the coarse and ignore the bs of impatient chaos wanters that are Fans and Media. They’re just candy eaters with rotten teeth.

Edited April 5, 2021 by HockeyHarry

[aznmonk]

we are only re-tooling not rebuilding.... if we were rebuilding we would of got 3 first round picks....if we are not No 1.  then we are neither ...

[CaptKirk888]

3 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

This thread LoIoion

In 50 years the Canucks have never ever have had a plan. ever.

Thanks Harry, now I can sleep well tonight. All my questions have been answered.

[HockeyHarry]

2 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Thanks Harry, now I can sleep well tonight. All my questions have been answered.

No problem, Your well come....now put your mind at ease, Lord knows you probably need your beauty sleep. 

[RU SERIOUS]

10 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:

According to an article I read last week, we have only one prospect in the NHL top 100 (Podz at #75). Love to see some vets moved for picks if anyone wants our sloppy seconds.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone will dare touch any of our contaminated players because they're likely out for at least 14 days and even if they clear the 14 day protocol I wonder what condition some of them will be in after contracting a serious respiratory illness that will likely leave some of them with lingering effects, as 1/3 of everyone that catches this virus becomes a "Long-Hauler" and that is a fact.   So I expect a few players to have trouble breathing for awhile.

[steviewonder20]

7 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone will dare touch any of our contaminated players because they're likely out for at least 14 days and even if they clear the 14 day protocol I wonder what condition some of them will be in after contracting a serious respiratory illness that will likely leave some of them with lingering effects, as 1/3 of everyone that catches this virus becomes a "Long-Hauler" and that is a fact.   So I expect a few players to have trouble breathing for awhile.

That’s a good point and one of many unexpected consequences of Covid. We really need to rebuild our prospect pool and dumping vets for picks was always a good option. I hope there is no long-term damage to the health of our players.

[kanucks25]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:13 AM, BENN said:

Just a question for how many years we will have a championship contending team if things go accordingly through the plan.

Bo is 25 soon to be 26, Boeser 25.

our defense is thin.

coach is not that impressive.

I mean, if things go perfectly to plan, we would be a contender every year.

 

But that's obviously not realistic.

 

22/23 and 23/24 are key years as we'll have (hopefully) key contributors on ELC's, Horvat and Miller still on their current deals, and a lot of dead money coming off the books to bolster the lineup. Not that it'll be impossible to win after that because our entire core will still be in their prime, but the salary cap will become an issue.

 

Which is why it's important to pounce when you have key contributors being paid well below their production value. Because of how the cap was handled during the "rebuild", we only have a 1-2 year prime window for that.

[kanucks25]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:11 PM, oldnews said:

Well done.  You finally made the effort to quote something - and it borderline resembles your claim.   

Referring to Motte's minutes as 'sheltered' however - is an actual, factual error/falsehood - not simply a matter of opinion.

You continue to obsess over Gudbranson is literally every thread you engage in - derailing the topic - but I'll oblige you - once again.

Mind you that was 2016 - the Gudbranson that Willie Mitchell was talking about - before the 30 game and 52 game seasons here  - ie M.A.S.H. unit seasons - with repeated injuries/playing at a fraction of health constantly (not unlike Sutter), on  gongshow M.A.S.H. teams with partners that needed sheltering, while playing a shutdown role...

Would I consider Gudbranson to have sustained his Florida trajectory - obviously not.

At the same time - he was just traded once again - at postive value - returned a pick - on a 4 million cap hit.

The thing that folks like yourself are unable to deal with - are what his outcomes look like when he plays for a team like Pittsburgh.  Difficult to understand for casual highlight reel types - but shutdown players - forwards and defensemen - tend to not look very good on bad teams.

And if you weren't cherry picking something without context - the evidence there is clear - Tanev's possession numbers were often unimpressive in this context - his numbers dragged down considerably by the context in which he played.

Gudbranson -Florida took him 3rd overall.

Vancouver

Pittsburgh (numbers there were very good, actually - if you're able to look objectively at anything).

Anaheim

Ottawa

All acquired him at positive market value. 

Doesn't quite jive with the take of people like you - who tend to believe he was an unmoveable cap dump anchor, etc.  The facts repeatedly - of actual real world market value - don't support you.  At the same time, Gudbranson has arguably underperformed at times since - whereas Tanev remains on the leagues' premier dedicated shtudown D.....and I was having some fun at the time/ a measure of sarcasm/embellishment - when I call someone a "gd 21st century dream beast" - you should take that with a grain of salt -  but you can assign whatever degree of wrong to that post that you see fit (idc).

 

But clearly the truth lies closer to Gudbranson being an NHL asset than it does the opinion of folks like yourself - who work in one-liners and 'the worst defenseman in the world' kind of pointless nonsense (the same kind of things we've heard endlessly relative to Edler, Sbisa, Gudbranson - really anyone that has been caught in an unflattering shutdown role on this team in transition).

 

So - fill your boots with your obsession with Gudbranson - but it does not somehow qualify the false claims you've made in this thread.

 

You clearly don't know what even "sheltered" means - refer to Motte as sheltered - so having a discussion about 'analtyics' is an obvious waste of time.

 

Relying on silly charts you can't explain doesn't make  your point. 

 

If you're game to engage in this actual thread - have a go at explaining the repeated questions you sidestep.

lmao

 

[kanucks25]

On 3/31/2021 at 11:39 AM, Tom Sestito said:

 

Might be the funniest post I’ve ever seen

 

 

gold, thanks 

[CaptKirk888]

16 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

No problem, Your well come....now put your mind at ease, Lord knows you probably need your beauty sleep. 

Ha ha. You are so right my friend! Although I doubt any amount of sleep will help with my beauty! 

All the best Harry and have a great week.

[CaptKirk888]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:13 AM, BENN said:

Just a question for how many years we will have a championship contending team if things go accordingly through the plan.

Bo is 25 soon to be 26, Boeser 25.

our defense is thin.

coach is not that impressive.

 

I like canucks to be a "draft and develop" franchise and always "a playoff team" with a clear system and clear identity.

with a great prospect pool and depth, with a clear brand of hockey playing, a franchise with system ,culture and patience.

hope Benning does not screw it up, I think Linden view was what I said above,maybe i am mistaken as I usually am.

with this coaching system that is installed in Van, I do not see this vision happening.

From the Hockey News. https://www.si.com/hockey/news/learning-to-lose-before-stanley-cup-win

The median average team age in the NHL this season is about 27, and only three of the 12 Cup-winning teams had a younger average age than 27. Half had average ages older than 28. The 2006 Carolina Hurricanes, 2007 Anaheim Ducks and 2009 Penguins each had at least a dozen players 30 or older, though we’ve seen a relative decline in the number of true greybeards since then. While Ward won the Conn Smythe Trophy at 21 in 2006, as did Jonathan Toews in 2010, seven of the past 12 playoff MVPs were at least 27.

 

The number of players on the recent champion franchises who already had Cup rings entering the post-season is obviously skewed considering three franchises – the Penguins, Chicago and Los Angeles – have hoarded eight of the past nine Cups. The 2015 Hawks and 2017 Pens were of course packed with previous winners. There’s an inherent advantage in having a powerhouse team and a team carrying many bodies over from a previous championship run.

[CaptKirk888]

On 4/3/2021 at 2:29 PM, Slegr said:

I’m already excited about next year, which is actually only six months away. 
Here’s what I’d be hoping for:

 

Petey Miller Boeser

Podz Horvat Hoglander

Virtanen Boyd Ferland

Lind Beagle Motte

 

Hughes Tryamkin

Rathbone Schmidt 

Joulevi Myers 

 

Demko

Holtby

I like it, but we can't rely on Podz yet (have to wait and see), Ferland will probably not play again, Lind is also a maybe? Tryamkin may not come back, Rathbone is a ? still. 

Potentially though, that is a nice lineup that I would love to see too.

[CaptKirk888]

4 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

gold, thanks 

@oldnews @Tom Sestito and of course you Kanucks25. When this (COVID) is all over, you three need to get together over a few beers. BUT, you must invite me, so I can watch.

Now that would be entertaining! 

[kanucks25]

12 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

@oldnews @Tom Sestito and of course you Kanucks25. When this (COVID) is all over, you three need to get together over a few beers. BUT, you must invite me, so I can watch.

Now that would be entertaining! 

You'd be disappointed, I'm not as tough in person

[CaptKirk888]

8 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

You'd be disappointed, I'm not as tough in person

You are too funny. I actually meant the conversation/argument that would ensue. 

[Tom Sestito]

There's no way oldnews would be able to look me straight in the eye and tell me gudbranson and tanev are on the same level 

 

NO WAY

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'm not sure why, when hired, he gave a timeframe to the media. It was probably just to calm down frustrations because at that time we were one of the worst franchises in the league, zero prospects, zero star players, no where to go.

 

JB has single-handedly created a brilliant core already to work around, with some good pieces in the future and should keep us contending at least for the playoffs for years. The team he has built is currently a fringe-playoff team (I would put a big old asterix next to this season and completely buy his excuses of too many games with little practices + young players struggling to adjust + lots of players out = if you don't buy it, look at what's currently happening to the Canadiens and Calgary after playing so many games in quick succession, the playoff gap will shrink quickly over the next few weeks), we were a decent playoff team last season and will be a decent playoff season next season. 

 

The real question is whether or not this team can make the next jump and that, I worry about. Not many GMs can make that next step, you have to be good (which I believe JB is) but also very lucky as well. He's created a brilliant core with Petey, Bo, Brock and Miller up front which has combinations of strength, defensive awareness and skill, and on defence has a young core of Hughes, Myers and Schmidt now to work with (+ Juolevi in the future) who are all decent defensively and Hughes brings some nice flair offensively, and in net we have one of the best young goalies in the league of course. JB is the man you want for finding complementary secondary and tertiary players - he can snag them through draft or trade better than most to flesh out that core when the time comes for a big playoff push. Last year he acquired Toffoli nicely and of course we had a brilliant bottom-6 with Sutter/Beagle as two of the best 3C and 4C PKers in the league alongside Motte who IMO is the best 4th liner in the league.

 

As for making that next big jump, big playoff run (and consistently), it really comes down to the core. Look at Chicago's dynasty core of Toews, Kane (+/- Hossa), Seabrook, Keith and Crawford. A couple of wingers came in and out, but that core of 5 was the best we've seen in a while because they could all defend, all attack and all played big hockey when it mattered most. Then look at Pittsburgh, Crosby, Malkin, Letang and MAF. In these more recent years we've seen flashes of brilliant cores, but nothing like those years. Boston again did it the same with Krejci, Marchand, Bergeron, Chara and Thomas/Rask. A core of players who, when relied on, could all defend and attack and play better than any other core when the time mattered.

 

Now you look at our core of Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Hughes, Juolevi (+/- Myers/Schmidt depending on what happens in the future) and Demko. For me, I think Demko will stand out and compare to those past star playoff goalies, he's done it before, he has it in his arsenal and I think he'll do it again, he's one piece we don't have to worry about. Up front, Bo Horvat is a Kesler-type player and he can crank it up in the playoffs, we've witnessed that already against St. Louis so for a 2nd line center he will be the best in the playoffs when the time comes. The other 3 are real question marks for me, they've shown some brilliance at times but have been very inconsistent. This season they've just been beaten out by almost every other time line head-to-head which worries me. Yes, Boeser has looked good, and Miller was one of the best two-way centers in the NHL last season, but this year they've put up some nice numbers offensively, but defensively they've been feasted on for lazy play (Miller especially) or just weak defence. Boeser looks stronger, but the worry is whether Pettersson is strong enough defensively to be a 1C in the playoffs. When you look back at Toews, Crosby and Bergeron, these are all supreme 2-way centers who use their bodies smartly and defend as well as they score. Can Pettersson be that player? Maybe. I don't think it's in his genes really so he's got a lot of growing to do. Miller is probably the better fit if we can get him to play smarter defensively and convert Petey to a winger to be honest.

 

As for defensively we're a long way off IMO. Hughes is one of if not the best offensive defenceman in the league, but defensively he's been a nightmare this season and was above average last year. He's got a long way to go. A good comparison would be Letang - smaller, fast offensive defenceman but boy could Letang defend well when he needed to (and still does). Hughes and Juolevi are never going to be as good as Keith and Seabrook, arguably one of the best defensive pairings in the history of the game, but that's almost what you need to win in the playoffs - a solid defenceman who can shutdown opposing team's 1st and even 2nd lines. We're going to have to do it by committee it seems and, as history shows, that rarely works compared to a team with one star defenceman. This being said, there are some very strong defencemen in the upcoming draft...

 

Finally, and have to mention it, but there is always a concern with coaching. You look at teams like Florida ditch their past coach for a proven NHL playoff coach in Quinneville and watch them just boom. It's no surprise our best success was with a proven NHL coach in Crawford and AV, and even they were relatively average. Then we regress to 2 AHL-trials who collectively haven't gotten us very far (I think only one season out of 4 perhaps over .500?). This team is brilliant on paper but will only go as far as coaching. Last season we saw Green at his best, especially in the playoffs - what the Canucks did to St. Louis was all superb coaching and energy. It's a shame that fell off against Vegas where Gallant just out-coached Green (and Demko made Green look a bit better whereas it should have been a short series). Gallant's system just stifled ours and completely locked it down. Ironically he's the type of coach this team could really benefit from but we'll see what happens, Green's system is being exploited badly this season and other coaches know how to embarrass us and hit the weak-spots now, we've fallen victim to it ourselves. Either Green grows with the team and adjusts his systems and coaching strategies or we get a proper NHL-proven coach, and there'll be a lot on the market this coming off-season.

 

TL:DR - on the whole I think JB's done a fantastic job for turning this franchise around from a pitiful, empty team into a well-stocked playoff-worthy team from now on year-in-year-out. However, are they good enough to make a deep playoff run? Is this core he's assembled good enough? He's been good with drafting and trades at times, but cup winning GMs also get lucky. Is he lucky enough for Pettersson to become that all-inclusive 2-way center who can shutdown opposing team's 1st lines defensively? We'll see how his career pans out. Is he lucky enough for Hughes to develop some brilliant physicality and defensive ability in the next couple of years to make him a true 25-minute defenceman, or does he have another player in the horizon? We'll see. Either way, he's got most of the core already down pat so I'm sure the rest will come, but JB is the man you want behind the helm.