Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[DSVII]

13 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, the 2016 was also a sticking point of how far we dropped and I remember a JB interview were his targeted player was PLD but Columbus went off board.  With hindsight, Laine seems to be regressing hard and the Jets who gained the most (still) ended up with PLD & the best years (currently) of Laine; seems to still be the biggest winner of that draft (although, let's see if PLD will resign after his contract ends).  As for Columbus, I believed they also jumped and the best player they ended up, seems to be Roslovic - a local kid; unless Laine comes back to form (?).

We were never gonna have PLD though. According to Elliot Friedman, Benning had a deal in place with Montreal to acquire PK Subban if PLD fell to us. Bullet. Dodged.

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, DSVII said:

We were never gonna have PLD though. According to Elliot Friedman, Benning had a deal in place with Montreal to acquire PK Subban if PLD fell to us. Bullet. Dodged.

 

 

Hmm, if true then I agree a great deal.  Hopefully, JB wont be so eager to make a splash moving forward and instead stick to his strenght - drafting & development.

 

If PK and LE are here, I am not sure even the drafting of EP & QH would be enough to save his job.- smh.

[alucard]

On 4/6/2021 at 12:59 PM, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'm not sure why, when hired, he gave a timeframe to the media. It was probably just to calm down frustrations because at that time we were one of the worst franchises in the league, zero prospects, zero star players, no where to go.

 

JB has single-handedly created a brilliant core already to work around, with some good pieces in the future and should keep us contending at least for the playoffs for years. The team he has built is currently a fringe-playoff team (I would put a big old asterix next to this season and completely buy his excuses of too many games with little practices + young players struggling to adjust + lots of players out = if you don't buy it, look at what's currently happening to the Canadiens and Calgary after playing so many games in quick succession, the playoff gap will shrink quickly over the next few weeks), we were a decent playoff team last season and will be a decent playoff season next season. 

 

The real question is whether or not this team can make the next jump and that, I worry about. Not many GMs can make that next step, you have to be good (which I believe JB is) but also very lucky as well. He's created a brilliant core with Petey, Bo, Brock and Miller up front which has combinations of strength, defensive awareness and skill, and on defence has a young core of Hughes, Myers and Schmidt now to work with (+ Juolevi in the future) who are all decent defensively and Hughes brings some nice flair offensively, and in net we have one of the best young goalies in the league of course. JB is the man you want for finding complementary secondary and tertiary players - he can snag them through draft or trade better than most to flesh out that core when the time comes for a big playoff push. Last year he acquired Toffoli nicely and of course we had a brilliant bottom-6 with Sutter/Beagle as two of the best 3C and 4C PKers in the league alongside Motte who IMO is the best 4th liner in the league.

 

As for making that next big jump, big playoff run (and consistently), it really comes down to the core. Look at Chicago's dynasty core of Toews, Kane (+/- Hossa), Seabrook, Keith and Crawford. A couple of wingers came in and out, but that core of 5 was the best we've seen in a while because they could all defend, all attack and all played big hockey when it mattered most. Then look at Pittsburgh, Crosby, Malkin, Letang and MAF. In these more recent years we've seen flashes of brilliant cores, but nothing like those years. Boston again did it the same with Krejci, Marchand, Bergeron, Chara and Thomas/Rask. A core of players who, when relied on, could all defend and attack and play better than any other core when the time mattered.

 

Now you look at our core of Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Hughes, Juolevi (+/- Myers/Schmidt depending on what happens in the future) and Demko. For me, I think Demko will stand out and compare to those past star playoff goalies, he's done it before, he has it in his arsenal and I think he'll do it again, he's one piece we don't have to worry about. Up front, Bo Horvat is a Kesler-type player and he can crank it up in the playoffs, we've witnessed that already against St. Louis so for a 2nd line center he will be the best in the playoffs when the time comes. The other 3 are real question marks for me, they've shown some brilliance at times but have been very inconsistent. This season they've just been beaten out by almost every other time line head-to-head which worries me. Yes, Boeser has looked good, and Miller was one of the best two-way centers in the NHL last season, but this year they've put up some nice numbers offensively, but defensively they've been feasted on for lazy play (Miller especially) or just weak defence. Boeser looks stronger, but the worry is whether Pettersson is strong enough defensively to be a 1C in the playoffs. When you look back at Toews, Crosby and Bergeron, these are all supreme 2-way centers who use their bodies smartly and defend as well as they score. Can Pettersson be that player? Maybe. I don't think it's in his genes really so he's got a lot of growing to do. Miller is probably the better fit if we can get him to play smarter defensively and convert Petey to a winger to be honest.

 

As for defensively we're a long way off IMO. Hughes is one of if not the best offensive defenceman in the league, but defensively he's been a nightmare this season and was above average last year. He's got a long way to go. A good comparison would be Letang - smaller, fast offensive defenceman but boy could Letang defend well when he needed to (and still does). Hughes and Juolevi are never going to be as good as Keith and Seabrook, arguably one of the best defensive pairings in the history of the game, but that's almost what you need to win in the playoffs - a solid defenceman who can shutdown opposing team's 1st and even 2nd lines. We're going to have to do it by committee it seems and, as history shows, that rarely works compared to a team with one star defenceman. This being said, there are some very strong defencemen in the upcoming draft...

 

Finally, and have to mention it, but there is always a concern with coaching. You look at teams like Florida ditch their past coach for a proven NHL playoff coach in Quinneville and watch them just boom. It's no surprise our best success was with a proven NHL coach in Crawford and AV, and even they were relatively average. Then we regress to 2 AHL-trials who collectively haven't gotten us very far (I think only one season out of 4 perhaps over .500?). This team is brilliant on paper but will only go as far as coaching. Last season we saw Green at his best, especially in the playoffs - what the Canucks did to St. Louis was all superb coaching and energy. It's a shame that fell off against Vegas where Gallant just out-coached Green (and Demko made Green look a bit better whereas it should have been a short series). Gallant's system just stifled ours and completely locked it down. Ironically he's the type of coach this team could really benefit from but we'll see what happens, Green's system is being exploited badly this season and other coaches know how to embarrass us and hit the weak-spots now, we've fallen victim to it ourselves. Either Green grows with the team and adjusts his systems and coaching strategies or we get a proper NHL-proven coach, and there'll be a lot on the market this coming off-season.

 

TL:DR - on the whole I think JB's done a fantastic job for turning this franchise around from a pitiful, empty team into a well-stocked playoff-worthy team from now on year-in-year-out. However, are they good enough to make a deep playoff run? Is this core he's assembled good enough? He's been good with drafting and trades at times, but cup winning GMs also get lucky. Is he lucky enough for Pettersson to become that all-inclusive 2-way center who can shutdown opposing team's 1st lines defensively? We'll see how his career pans out. Is he lucky enough for Hughes to develop some brilliant physicality and defensive ability in the next couple of years to make him a true 25-minute defenceman, or does he have another player in the horizon? We'll see. Either way, he's got most of the core already down pat so I'm sure the rest will come, but JB is the man you want behind the helm. 

He has done a good job but has done horrible mistakes also which he should be criticized for :

Eriksson contract and his handling of free agency has been a problem.

Hope he has learned his lesson.

If I could ban one thing for the team that would be FA signings, they are often bite you back in the end.

just draft and develop,adjust the team with trades.

[alucard]

On 4/6/2021 at 3:01 AM, CaptKirk888 said:

From the Hockey News. https://www.si.com/hockey/news/learning-to-lose-before-stanley-cup-win

The median average team age in the NHL this season is about 27, and only three of the 12 Cup-winning teams had a younger average age than 27. Half had average ages older than 28. The 2006 Carolina Hurricanes, 2007 Anaheim Ducks and 2009 Penguins each had at least a dozen players 30 or older, though we’ve seen a relative decline in the number of true greybeards since then. While Ward won the Conn Smythe Trophy at 21 in 2006, as did Jonathan Toews in 2010, seven of the past 12 playoff MVPs were at least 27.

 

The number of players on the recent champion franchises who already had Cup rings entering the post-season is obviously skewed considering three franchises – the Penguins, Chicago and Los Angeles – have hoarded eight of the past nine Cups. The 2015 Hawks and 2017 Pens were of course packed with previous winners. There’s an inherent advantage in having a powerhouse team and a team carrying many bodies over from a previous championship run.

Another question , in the current core`s prime what our lineup would look like?

Core Players : EP , Bo, Brock, Hughes, Demko, Podz, Miller , Hog , Juolevi?

 

Brock - EP - Miller

Podz - Bo - Hoglander 

? - Gaudette - ?

? - ? - ?

 

Hughes - Schmitt

Juelevi - ?

Myers - Woo?(Rathbone?)

 

Demko

Dipietro

 

Coach: Gallant ?

 

[appleboy]

32 minutes ago, BENN said:

He has done a good job but has done horrible mistakes also which he should be criticized for :

Eriksson contract and his handling of free agency has been a problem.

Hope he has learned his lesson.

If I could ban one thing for the team that would be FA signings, they are often bite you back in the end.

just draft and develop,adjust the team with trades.

It is not so much the UFA market but I would say the lack of having set guidelines for each position. Salary guidelines. Plus set rules for term. It is as if they get their mind focused on a certain player and then pay what ever it takes to land them. Extra money or more term. 

What they need to do is have a set salary structure for each position and then stay within it. If you can't land player A then you move on to player B. 

They seem to just keep adding money and term to get their man. Then you get cap troubles like we currently have.

 

It comes back to PLANNING. Something this organization has lacked under Jimbo.

[Convincing John]

2 hours ago, appleboy said:

It is not so much the UFA market but I would say the lack of having set guidelines for each position. Salary guidelines. Plus set rules for term. It is as if they get their mind focused on a certain player and then pay what ever it takes to land them. Extra money or more term. 

What they need to do is have a set salary structure for each position and then stay within it. If you can't land player A then you move on to player B. 

They seem to just keep adding money and term to get their man. Then you get cap troubles like we currently have.

 

It comes back to PLANNING. Something this organization has lacked under Jimbo.

I’m most annoyed with the lack of chemistry. We don't have a D pairing that clicks. There are no 2 players in the bottom 6 that play well with each other, it’s crazy. Everyone yells about Travis Green and his dump and chase style of hockey. What choice does he have? You going to be a puck possession team with Sutter? Virtanen? These guys probably can’t even figure out Monkey in the middle and we expect them to cycle the puck? Lol. 
 

It’s Like Benning only focuses only on skating which has made us one of the lowest hockey IQ teams in the league. We have no playmakers. I’m Not talking about guys who can also make plays, I’m talking about guys who’s main focus is making plays. Not skating through the neutral zone with “onside”being your only offensive instinct. 

[appleboy]

25 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

I’m most annoyed with the lack of chemistry. We don't have a D pairing that clicks. There are no 2 players in the bottom 6 that play well with each other, it’s crazy. Everyone yells about Travis Green and his dump and chase style of hockey. What choice does he have? You going to be a puck possession team with Sutter? Virtanen? These guys probably can’t even figure out Monkey in the middle and we expect them to cycle the puck? Lol. 
 

It’s Like Benning only focuses only on skating which has made us one of the lowest hockey IQ teams in the league. We have no playmakers. I’m Not talking about guys who can also make plays, I’m talking about guys who’s main focus is making plays. Not skating through the neutral zone with “onside”being your only offensive instinct. 

Both Petey and Hughes hockey IQ is exceptional. OJ has mobility issues but his understanding of the game is top notch. Boeser is showing that he is way more than a shooter, he is becoming a very complete player. Hoglander is more of a playmaker than a scorer. Plus energy to boot. Pod is known for his very complete game. Miller has shown that he can play anywhere on the ice. You must be a complete player to play center.

 

So, I am not sure I see what you are talking about. I just think the club is incomplete.

[Convincing John]

15 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Both Petey and Hughes hockey IQ is exceptional. OJ has mobility issues but his understanding of the game is top notch. Boeser is showing that he is way more than a shooter, he is becoming a very complete player. Hoglander is more of a playmaker than a scorer. Plus energy to boot. Pod is known for his very complete game. Miller has shown that he can play anywhere on the ice. You must be a complete player to play center.

 

So, I am not sure I see what you are talking about. I just think the club is incomplete.

I’m talking more about the bottom 6. And 2 out of 3 d pairings. I thought I was clear about that but I guess I wasn’t. 

[kanucks25]

1 prospect on Button's list of top-75 NHL-affiliated prospects.

 

Podkolzin drafted @ 10th overall, 50th on the list

 

Not a surprise, considering how many of our top prospects have graduated over the past 3 years.

 

But just a heads up to people who actually believe our cupboards are stocked.

Edited April 7, 2021 by kanucks25

[AV.]

It makes you wonder.

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

1 prospect on Button's list of top-75 NHL-affiliated prospects.

 

Podkolzin drafted @ 10th overall, 50th on the list

 

Not a surprise, considering how many of our top prospects have graduated over the past 3 years.

 

But just a heads up to people who actually believe our cupboards are stocked.

And the Hockey Writers and THN had multiple players in the top hundred to start the season after last years draft - Podz at 10, Hoglander 28ish, OJ 85/Woo 86.    Depends where you look, these lists vary wildly.   Button also wrote an article last January saying Rafferty was ready then to play top four NHL minutes.   

 

I do agree that our best pool days have come and gone given how many guys have graduated, fortunately we can only afford maybe one or two at most core guys, the rest support players.   

[appleboy]

23 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

1 prospect on Button's list of top-75 NHL-affiliated prospects.

 

Podkolzin drafted @ 10th overall, 50th on the list

 

Not a surprise, considering how many of our top prospects have graduated over the past 3 years.

 

But just a heads up to people who actually believe our cupboards are stocked.

You are right that our system is getting down a bit. After Pod there is mostly players who will be support players. Maybe Tryamkin. 

 

This is why the process of stocking the cupboards should never stop. Draft picks need to be prioritized and should not be used for trade chips unless the return is special. Or maybe the last piece for a cup run. Jim did have a habit of adding a pick into deals for mediocre players.   

 

[Fred65]

28 minutes ago, appleboy said:

You are right that our system is getting down a bit. After Pod there is mostly players who will be support players. Maybe Tryamkin. 

 

This is why the process of stocking the cupboards should never stop. Draft picks need to be prioritized and should not be used for trade chips unless the return is special. Or maybe the last piece for a cup run. Jim did have a habit of adding a pick into deals for mediocre players.   

 

The current number of players drafted by this management team is 48 of that 11 have played in the NHL over a period of 6 years ( ie adequate time for the first couple of years to make the grade) that's an efficiency of 22.9% I have no idea of how that compares with other teams but I don't see it as spectacular

[appleboy]

19 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

The current number of players drafted by this management team is 48 of that 11 have played in the NHL over a period of 6 years ( ie adequate time for the first couple of years to make the grade) that's an efficiency of 22.9% I have no idea of how that compares with other teams but I don't see it as spectacular

I think you will find that this is outstanding. The previous management was probably 0. LOL

 

Most clubs get 1 to 2 players per year.     

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, appleboy said:

I think you will find that this is outstanding. The previous management was probably 0. LOL

 

Most clubs get 1 to 2 players per year.     

That's not actually true they had 10 players between 2008 and 2013, not all played with Vcr but the likes of Horvat Schroeder, Hodgson, Conaughton etc all played for quite a while. Vcr problem in that era was they drafted low because of their on ice success dictated low picks ie you don't win the Presidents Trophy and go to the SC finals and then garner a top 5 pick 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Fred65

[aGENT]

52 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

That's not actually true they had 10 players between 2008 and 2013, not all played with Vcr but the likes of Horvat Schroeder, Hodgson, Conaughton etc all played for quite a while. Vcr problem in that era was they drafted low because of their on ice success dictated low picks ie you don't win the Presidents Trophy and go to the SC finals and then garner a top 5 pick 

One of the guys you listed was a top 10 pick.

 

Who would you rather have, Schroeder at 22 or Boeser at 23?

 

The drafting wasn't good. It wasn't just because we were 'drafting late'.

[Josepho]

The second Jim gets a chance to overpay a declining player, he'll do it.

 

This Pearson extension shows there was never a "plan" to let the cap space open up when players like Pettersson/Hughes were hitting their prime. He just didn't spend any money last offseason because he didn't have any.

 

Inexcusable garbage.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Josepho

[appleboy]

3.25 for 3 years for Pearson. I hope they can sign Hughes and Petey for cheep. 

 

I like Pearson but for 2 mil or less.

 

Not sure how this fits their cap. Something will need to give.

Edited April 8, 2021 by appleboy

[DSVII]

So the implications here is that were it not for flat cap, Pearson could have gotten 4+. In a year where he's slumping hard vs last yr. (11 pts, a top 6 player getting only 2 pts more than Jordie Benn). 

 

And to top it off he also got an NTC.

 

And yet some feel confident entrusting JB with 20+ mil in cap space to sign quality value contracts to support this core?

 

1 mil between him and Toffoli....

Edited April 8, 2021 by DSVII

[kanucks25]

It really boggles the mind how anyone would think that locking up Tanner Pearson to 3 x 3.25, especially given all the moving pieces there will be this summer, is a sound idea.

 

This management team has never heard of the idea of "opportunity cost".