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Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

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1 hour ago, DSVII said:

 

Other thoughts:

  • Any word on the NTC if it is an NMC? If we're protecting Pearson I'm concerned we may lose Kole Lind in the expansion draft by protecting him.  EDIT: Canucks promised Pearson they'll protect him, so that's one expansion slot gone, i wish we weaponized cap space/expansion slots for once.
  • Also means that Benning is not being canned, he's keeping his job. 
  • We have $17 mil left to sign Three Defensemen, One 3C, and Petey/Hughes (I'm assuming our fourth line has to be drawn from utica, there's no choice) Let's see how this two year plan unfolds....
  • I strangely enough, don't think this will impact Petey and Hughes too much now, probably because Benning has shown he can extract better value contracts from his RFAs, but there could be a chance Petey and Hughes takes a look at this and ask for more dollars considering Pearson only has 11 pts this year.
  • BUT I also hope it wasn't a mistake that we signed Pearson first before Petey and Hughes....because this sets the tone, may mean we have to sign bridge deals rather than long term deals like Demko

 

 

They promised him? Verbally? Well, that's new.

 

Protection list for forwards: EP, Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Pearson, Lind. That leaves one spot for Virtanen/Gaudette/Motte. I'd say protect Motte and Gaudette is likely to be claimed by Seattle.

 

I agree that EP and QH aren't affected as much by this signing. They aren't signing long term deals and I'd guess around 6 mils x 3 years.

 

That gives us around 5mils to sign 2 defencemen, I'd assume Edler and Tryamkin. The defence depth will be

 

Edler-Schmidt

QH-Tryamkin

OJ-Myers

Rathbone-Chatfield

 

Buyout or a trade is necessary to accommodate Edler and Tryamkin on the roster.

 

We don't have money to upgrade on 3C -- I'd go with EP-Horvat-Miller as centers. Promote Lind and Podkolzin to upgrade on wing depth.

 

Virtanen-EP-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Vesey-Miller-Podkolzin

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen/Lind

 

 

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1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

He's from Manitoba right ? I recall him saying he wishes to stay in the  West

That’s right, and his child has some serious health issues. 

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1 minute ago, canuckleheads fan said:

JB's not going anywhere, and I suspect neither is Green.  This was a good signing, good term and good dollars.  Pearson is a second line winger, who plays in all situations (PP and PK), chips in on offense and plays terrific defense, they don't usually come for $3.25 in Vancouver.  Even if he gets bumped to the third line by incoming studs, he's still a good price.  Add to that, as I mentioned before, that he's likely a leader, a glue-guy in the locker room, well-liked by his teammates.  The team will lose Sutter this year, who is also one of those types of players, you can't give up all your late 20's leadership in one fell-swoop.  Pearson is one of those high-quality people that JB likes, he's a great fit for this young team.  

To be honest I like Pearson, But if I'm to believe every thing I hear about Podkolzyn he might push Pearson down the order and that's a lot of money IMO to pay for a third line guy. We can't attach ourselves to players but judge their value at where they will play and how much they add. The Cap is our main hinderance and we can't simply rinse and repeat ....  IMHO

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3 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

That’s right, and his child has some serious health issues. 

Yeah his daughter has a respiratory ailment. Hard to say but for most GM's its a dollar and cents decission

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17 hours ago, Fred65 said:

To be honest I like Pearson, But if I'm to believe every thing I hear about Podkolzyn he might push Pearson down the order and that's a lot of money IMO to pay for a third line guy. We can't attach ourselves to players but judge their value at where they will play and how much they add. The Cap is our main hinderance and we can't simply rinse and repeat ....  IMHO

Podkolzin is 19 years old, and we see what rushing Jake did for him.  I think they introduce Podkolzin to third line minutes, and see how he develops.  Even if Pearson gets pushed down, injuries happen, and having a guy in your lineup that can play up and down the lineup is a luxury.  Notice that since Pearson's injury Travis has tried about five different guys in that spot, and none of them has been as good as Pearson.  Plus he plays all the special teams.  I'm not attached to Pearson, he's nowhere near a favorite of mine, but I see the value of the contract.  Plus he's a solid professional hockey player who helps the young guys with their preparation and professionalism.  And, as I suspect he's well-liked and a leader in the locker room, which can't be discounted.  I think he is what they were hoping Roussel would be, minus the fighting and stupid penalties, but Rooster hurt his knee and hasn't been the same since.  Also, Pearson's signing means that the team is moving on from Jake, which I think is a good thing!

Edited by canuckleheads fan
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5 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Podkolzin is 19 years old, and we see what rushing Jake did for him.  I think they introduce Podkolzin to third line minutes, and see how he develops.  Even if Person gets pushed down, injuries happen, and having a guy in your lineup that can play up and down the lineup is a luxury.  Notice that since Pearson's injury Travis has tried about five different guys in that spot, and none of them has been as good as Person.  Plus he plays all the special teams.  I'm not attached to Pearson, he's nowhere near a favorite of mine, but I see the value of the contract.  Plus he's a solid professional hockey player who helps the young guys with their preparation and professionalism.  And, as I suspect he's well-liked and a leader in the locker room, which can't be discounted.  I think he is what they were hoping Roussel would be, minus the fighting and stupid penalties, but Rooster hurt his knee and hasn't been the same since.  Also, Pearson's signing means that the team is moving on from Jake, which I think is a good thing!

For another million they could have had Taffoli and I know which I would prefer. From all reports Pearson is every thing you say. And the deal is better than the last core player we signed , Sutter at $4.3.

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1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

For another million they could have had Taffoli and I know which I would prefer. From all reports Pearson is every thing you say

No doubt, the dumbest thing that JB did in the offseason was trying to find a way to squeeze Ekman-Larsson under the cap, which I think froze him on other moves, like Toffoli.  Yes, I think they would have liked Toffoli, for the same reasons they like Pearson, professional, good guy, plays in all circumstances, but the team's primary need was defense, and Ekman-Larsson was JB's white whale.  JB was also hamstrung by Ferland's contract, not knowing if he would stay on LTIR, or be ready for the season.  He had to leave that $3 million open.  I think he has more clarity now on Ferland, I suspect he'll call it a career, as well as seeing some contracts, Sutter ($4.375), Baertschi ($2.291), Edler ($6), Spooner ($1) buyout come off the board in the offseason.  I think Edler signs for around $3 million, which is half what he's making now, Pearson took a pay cut, Sutter will be replaced by Lind at a likely savings of at least $3 million.  If the season ends now, it'll be too bad, it would have been good to see what the team had in Vesey and Boyd, to see if we wanted to retain them.  Both are UFAs.

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The only thing that can protect a player from the expansion draft is a NMC.

Players with a NTC clause can be left unprotected.

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14 hours ago, appleboy said:

They have 12 players signed and only 17 mil left.  They will be doing some buyouts or there is a trade coming to unload some cash.  Could they hang Meyers out at the expansion draft?

The numbers just don't add up. Yet !

 

The problem is not 3.25 mil for Pearson. The problem is the lack of cap space. The problem is the cash required to get other things done.

 

Buying out Holtby and Jake will free up 6.25 mil for next year.

 

Again, where is the plan here.

You have to add Ferland and 1-6 off the books depending on who goes to Seattle.   22-26 is the range. 

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Benning has done a great job at the draft - but isn't drafting mostly the responsibility of the head of scouting? Good thing we have Judd Brackett. Oh wait...

 

His asset management is laughable. How during a 7 year period where we should be rebuilding he trades away more picks than he acquires, spends to the cap, logjams cap space with terrible contracts and now that we have the core players in place under good contracts we don't have the room to get them a proper supporting cast. 

 

Good example is Thomas Vanek vs Loui Eriksson. The year we signed Eriksson I wanted Vanek for two years to play with the Sedins on a two year contract. Ironically, Vanek ended up being a far better player than Eriksson, cost us only 2 million for 1 year, provided great mentorship for Boeser and netted us a nice future piece in Tyler Motte. Why was this strategy not deployed more frequently???

Benning should have weaponized cap space, horded picks, kept contracts short, picked up future pieces at the deadline rinse and repeat. Instead of taking an asset for Pearson and giving the team breathing room he signed him to an awful contract for both term and dollar amount - the cycle continues! 

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16 hours ago, appleboy said:

They have 12 players signed and only 17 mil left.  They will be doing some buyouts or there is a trade coming to unload some cash.  Could they hang Meyers out at the expansion draft?

The numbers just don't add up. Yet !

 

The problem is not 3.25 mil for Pearson. The problem is the lack of cap space. The problem is the cash required to get other things done.

 

Buying out Holtby and Jake will free up 6.25 mil for next year.

 

Again, where is the plan here.


This pretty much sums it up. 

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31 minutes ago, Convincing John said:


This pretty much sums it up. 

Except Pearson was traded twice while putting up worse stats for more money. And one of either Myers or Holtby (most likely Myers) will be off the books at the end of this season when they are picked by Seattle in the expansion draft as those are the only two reasonable options for them. But hey let's not let facts get in the way of a good hot take.

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1 minute ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Except Pearson was traded twice while putting up worse stats for more money. And one of either Myers or Holtby (most likely Myers) will be off the books at the end of this season when they are picked by Seattle in the expansion draft as those are the only two reasonable options for them. But hey let's not let facts get in the way of a good hot take.

There is absolutely no indicator that has me convinced Pearson is going to continue to production at a +\-45 point per season rate. He is having his worst year statistically this year, he is also injured and he is 28 years old. The vast majority of 28 year olds have peaked. So every year after 28 will be a progression downward. This why signing UFA’s doesn’t work most of the time. You’re paying a player for what he did and never project a downward trend. This will be dead weight. He will be in the bottom 6 by the 3rd year, without question. 

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17 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

There is absolutely no indicator that has me convinced Pearson is going to continue to production at a +\-45 point per season rate. He is having his worst year statistically this year, he is also injured and he is 28 years old. The vast majority of 28 year olds have peaked. So every year after 28 will be a progression downward. This why signing UFA’s doesn’t work most of the time. You’re paying a player for what he did and never project a downward trend. This will be dead weight. He will be in the bottom 6 by the 3rd year, without question. 

Yes, because this contract takes him to his late 30s when a players stats usually fall off a cliff, oh, wait, no it doesn't, it only takes him from 28-31 when a player begins to gradually drop off, hence the reduction in pay from his current contract. 

 

You are right I also fully expect him to be on the 3rd line except I expect it to be by next season when Podkolzin takes over the 2RW spot and Pearson can contribute on the 3rd line by putting up roughly 35 points per 82 games, which is below his career average, and playing decent, defensively responsible minutes.

 

It's called depth. It's something that this team sorely lacks this year. Look at every serious Stanley Cup contender and you will see that they all have that one 3rd liner, putting up the same kind of stats, at roughly the same age and making the same kind of money.

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14 hours ago, Fred65 said:

To be honest I like Pearson, But if I'm to believe every thing I hear about Podkolzyn he might push Pearson down the order and that's a lot of money IMO to pay for a third line guy. We can't attach ourselves to players but judge their value at where they will play and how much they add. The Cap is our main hinderance and we can't simply rinse and repeat ....  IMHO

I don’t  think JB is paying Pearson based on goal production or being a second liner. JB clearly values player experience with winning a cup and sees the intangibles that Pearson brings to help the young core. I’m not saying Pearson is worth 3.25 million and ED protection, just trying to make sense out of this signing. I probably prefer to see him and Virts traded for picks.

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5 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

I don’t  think JB is paying Pearson based on goal production or being a second liner. JB clearly values player experience with winning a cup and sees the intangibles that Pearson brings to help the young core. I’m not saying Pearson is worth 3.25 million and ED protection, just trying to make sense out of this signing. I probably prefer to see him and Virts traded for picks.

What we really don’t know is what the trade market is like for Canuck players after this outbreak. Between Pearson’s injury and Covid he might not even be tradeable right now. 

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1 hour ago, Convincing John said:

There is absolutely no indicator that has me convinced Pearson is going to continue to production at a +\-45 point per season rate. He is having his worst year statistically this year, he is also injured and he is 28 years old. The vast majority of 28 year olds have peaked. So every year after 28 will be a progression downward. This why signing UFA’s doesn’t work most of the time. You’re paying a player for what he did and never project a downward trend. This will be dead weight. He will be in the bottom 6 by the 3rd year, without question. 

How long have you been watching hockey?   That's a broad statement saying the " vast majority of 28 year olds have peaked".    The ones that keep going past 28 are good enough to play competitive hockey in the NHL for quite some time past that.   Naslund started his peak at 27.   When did the Sedins peak again?  How's Marchand doing anyways...What about Crosby?  Blue chip D's have their best seasons from 28-34...so i guess you didn't count them into it.   28 is a great age if your a hockey player that sticks.   The only vast majority is the ones that won't make it that far.    This is the most ridiculous statement i've seen in quite some time.   NHLers that make it that far are in their peak prime years.    Every JB basher is hot on not re-signing TT...how old is he again and how's he doing anyways?  

 

Aside from pure points, this is when pro players have developed into two way players as well.   That's an intangible.  They are wily, have experience and is what JB has been saying all along that our time isn't here yet.   Are you the Gaurdian?  Starting to think that. 

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21 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

What we really don’t know is what the trade market is like for Canuck players after this outbreak. Between Pearson’s injury and Covid he might not even be tradeable right now. 

That could be true. We could have a whole team of impaired players given the lingering effects of Covid. So many unknowns atm.

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15 hours ago, khay said:

They promised him? Verbally? Well, that's new.

 

Protection list for forwards: EP, Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Pearson, Lind. That leaves one spot for Virtanen/Gaudette/Motte. I'd say protect Motte and Gaudette is likely to be claimed by Seattle.

 

I agree that EP and QH aren't affected as much by this signing. They aren't signing long term deals and I'd guess around 6 mils x 3 years.

 

That gives us around 5mils to sign 2 defencemen, I'd assume Edler and Tryamkin. The defence depth will be

 

Edler-Schmidt

QH-Tryamkin

OJ-Myers

Rathbone-Chatfield

 

Buyout or a trade is necessary to accommodate Edler and Tryamkin on the roster.

 

We don't have money to upgrade on 3C -- I'd go with EP-Horvat-Miller as centers. Promote Lind and Podkolzin to upgrade on wing depth.

 

Virtanen-EP-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Vesey-Miller-Podkolzin

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen/Lind

 

 

of course when you extend the same players, you dont have money to upgrade anything. Stupid move to extend pearson this soon. Should have waited to see what was on the market as some teams might want to do trades due to expansion draft. So he delays and doesnt sign toffoli last off season but quickly signs a lesser player like pearson.

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2 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

Benning has done a great job at the draft - but isn't drafting mostly the responsibility of the head of scouting? Good thing we have Judd Brackett. Oh wait...

 

His asset management is laughable. How during a 7 year period where we should be rebuilding he trades away more picks than he acquires, spends to the cap, logjams cap space with terrible contracts and now that we have the core players in place under good contracts we don't have the room to get them a proper supporting cast. 

 

Good example is Thomas Vanek vs Loui Eriksson. The year we signed Eriksson I wanted Vanek for two years to play with the Sedins on a two year contract. Ironically, Vanek ended up being a far better player than Eriksson, cost us only 2 million for 1 year, provided great mentorship for Boeser and netted us a nice future piece in Tyler Motte. Why was this strategy not deployed more frequently???

Benning should have weaponized cap space, horded picks, kept contracts short, picked up future pieces at the deadline rinse and repeat. Instead of taking an asset for Pearson and giving the team breathing room he signed him to an awful contract for both term and dollar amount - the cycle continues! 

:excl:

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