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Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

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4 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

That could be true. We could have a whole team of impaired players given the lingering effects of Covid. So many unknowns atm.

Which makes Benning a terrible GM. So trigger happy to sign players that have bad season to a contract with NTC. How many NTC contracts we have? 

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33 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

I don’t  think JB is paying Pearson based on goal production or being a second liner. JB clearly values player experience with winning a cup and sees the intangibles that Pearson brings to help the young core. I’m not saying Pearson is worth 3.25 million and ED protection, just trying to make sense out of this signing. I probably prefer to see him and Virts traded for picks.

Pearson is getting paid on the low side of middle six wingers.   Not the end of the world.    More is going to happen.  JV traded.   Maybe AG too.   This is just the start.    Feel JB was making sure to hide a few players in the weeds this year too so Seattle didn't get a good view.   One thing is for sure, like DIR stated, this isn't the time to get mad or upset or throw a spaz.    Pearson as a second liner, that's comparable money to what Higgins and Hansen were making percentage to cap wise.    Nobody b!tched about that.     I didn't want to re-sign him because i felt we needed to money somewhere else.   Aside from that, well what do any of us know.   Not enough to crucify him over it. 

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2 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Yes, because this contract takes him to his late 30s when a players stats usually fall off a cliff, oh, wait, no it doesn't, it only takes him from 28-31 when a player begins to gradually drop off, hence the reduction in pay from his current contract. 

 

You are right I also fully expect him to be on the 3rd line except I expect it to be by next season when Podkolzin takes over the 2RW spot and Pearson can contribute on the 3rd line by putting up roughly 35 points per 82 games, which is below his career average, and playing decent, defensively responsible minutes.

 

It's called depth. It's something that this team sorely lacks this year. Look at every serious Stanley Cup contender and you will see that they all have that one 3rd liner, putting up the same kind of stats, at roughly the same age and making the same kind of money.

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2 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Yes, because this contract takes him to his late 30s when a players stats usually fall off a cliff, oh, wait, no it doesn't, it only takes him from 28-31 when a player begins to gradually drop off, hence the reduction in pay from his current contract. 

 

You are right I also fully expect him to be on the 3rd line except I expect it to be by next season when Podkolzin takes over the 2RW spot and Pearson can contribute on the 3rd line by putting up roughly 35 points per 82 games, which is below his career average, and playing decent, defensively responsible minutes.

 

It's called depth. It's something that this team sorely lacks this year. Look at every serious Stanley Cup contender and you will see that they all have that one 3rd liner, putting up the same kind of stats, at roughly the same age and making the same kind of money.


Unpopular opinion. Our second line of Pearson/ Horvat is a 3rd line on a good cup contender. We are literally a second line short of being a deep team. 

Depth is having 2-3 players in their mid 20’s with a combined cap hit equal to what Pearson makes. This is why we have no depth, we blow our bottom 6 allowance on like 3 mediocre players. Outside of CDC the Pearson contract is under extreme criticism. The timing, the order of priorities. 
 

You do not build depth by spending 3.25M on a middle winger. You draft and acquire young players and hedge their upswing. We will never get anywhere paying players like Pearson this kind of money because we won’t be able to pay 2 top lines and 2 top pairings. 

Edited by Convincing John
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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

How long have you been watching hockey?   That's a broad statement saying the " vast majority of 28 year olds have peaked".    The ones that keep going past 28 are good enough to play competitive hockey in the NHL for quite some time past that.   Naslund started his peak at 27.   When did the Sedins peak again?  How's Marchand doing anyways...What about Crosby?  Blue chip D's have their best seasons from 28-34...so i guess you didn't count them into it.   28 is a great age if your a hockey player that sticks.   The only vast majority is the ones that won't make it that far.    This is the most ridiculous statement i've seen in quite some time.   NHLers that make it that far are in their peak prime years.    Every JB basher is hot on not re-signing TT...how old is he again and how's he doing anyways?  

 

Aside from pure points, this is when pro players have developed into two way players as well.   That's an intangible.  They are wily, have experience and is what JB has been saying all along that our time isn't here yet.   Are you the Gaurdian?  Starting to think that. 

This is pure draft foam. Pearson is ALREADY DECLINING. It’s not like he is in the middle of an upward trajectory and I’m predicting  his decline out of thin air. It’s already happened. Once a 28 year old starts dipping down, that’s usually it. Very rarely will they meet their peak again. He will flutter into obscurity. Then I’ll have to listen to everyone talk about how good he is at killing penalties and showing 28 year old 10 year veteran Bo Horvat how to be a pro... again. 
 

How do you guys not see this as the birth of another turd on the payroll? It’s like we go through this every time over the past 7 years and you all keep making the same argument and clearly lose all of them as Father Time inevitably proves you wrong. Stop defending everything this buffoon does. 

Edited by Convincing John
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16 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

This is pure draft foam. Pearson is ALREADY DECLINING. It’s not like he is in the middle of an upward trajectory and I’m predicting  his decline out of thin air. It’s already happened. Once a 28 year old starts dipping down, that’s usually it. Very rarely will they meet their peak again. He will flutter into obscurity. Then I’ll have to listen to everyone talk about how good he is at killing penalties and showing 28 year old 10 year veteran Bo Horvat how to be a pro... again. 
 

How do you guys not see this as the birth of another turd on the payroll? It’s like we go through this every time over the past 7 years and you all keep making the same argument and clearly lose all of them as Father Time inevitably proves you wrong. Stop defending everything this buffoon does. 

Ovi says hello.   You make a lot of broad claim strokes.   I've been a physically fit person since i was a kid, and can say any physical decline doesn't happen at 28 like some magical mystical number.   If you read my posts - i've been saying trade Pearson since last TDL.   We signed a middle six winger to a covid contract and the usual loud mouths are freaking out with their blow horns.   Stop freaking out with every move he makes. 

 

Edit: Not only that i did a job that would put NHlers to shame.   Just a ridiculous assumption.   I wanted to trade Pearson for over a year.   Because his stock was high.  

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31 minutes ago, Convincing John said:


Unpopular opinion. Our second line of Pearson/ Horvat is a 3rd line on a good cup contender. We are literally a second line short of being a deep team. 

Depth is having 2-3 players in their mid 20’s with a combined cap hit equal to what Pearson makes. This is why we have no depth, we blow our bottom 6 allowance on like 3 mediocre players. Outside of CDC the Pearson contract is under extreme criticism. The timing, the order of priorities. 
 

You do not build depth by spending 3.25M on a middle winger. You draft and acquire young players and hedge their upswing. We will never get anywhere paying players like Pearson this kind of money because we won’t be able to pay 2 top lines and 2 top pairings. 

Dude.  What does Stastny get paid and where was he in Vegas depth chart when we played him?  Where is Tyler Johnson?   Where was JT Miller for that matter?   Why do you think middle six players, in their first UFA contract, should be paid peanuts?    And you didn't answer my question, are you or are you not the Gaurdian?  189lbs?  One of the two i guess.  Not that i don't mind that but come out of the closet already. 

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5 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

Benning has done a great job at the draft - but isn't drafting mostly the responsibility of the head of scouting? Good thing we have Judd Brackett. Oh wait...

 

His asset management is laughable. How during a 7 year period where we should be rebuilding he trades away more picks than he acquires, spends to the cap, logjams cap space with terrible contracts and now that we have the core players in place under good contracts we don't have the room to get them a proper supporting cast. 

 

Good example is Thomas Vanek vs Loui Eriksson. The year we signed Eriksson I wanted Vanek for two years to play with the Sedins on a two year contract. Ironically, Vanek ended up being a far better player than Eriksson, cost us only 2 million for 1 year, provided great mentorship for Boeser and netted us a nice future piece in Tyler Motte. Why was this strategy not deployed more frequently???

Benning should have weaponized cap space, horded picks, kept contracts short, picked up future pieces at the deadline rinse and repeat. Instead of taking an asset for Pearson and giving the team breathing room he signed him to an awful contract for both term and dollar amount - the cycle continues! 

What a lot of people don't understand is that the NHL is not like a video games, all markets and all situations are NOT equal.  To sign a UFA, they actually have to want to come here.  Had JB kept contracts small and short, the only UFAs he would have attracted would have been worse than Linden Vey or Jack Skille in caliber.  Don't forget, a GM can only do what ownership mandates, and JB's original mandate was to try to reload so the Sedins would get one last shot at the cup.  So he held assets (Hansen and Burrows) longer than he probably would have otherwise, and traded 2nd and 3rd rounders and farm hands for mid-20's players to fill out the roster.  At least one of his most valuable assets (Kessler) backed JB into a trade corner.  At the end of the Sedin's career, when ownership realized that it was time rebuild, Vancouver was a bad team on the decline with no prospects on the farm, heading into a long rebuild.  No UFA of any quality was going to sign a short, low money contract to participate in that tire fire.  Vancouver is one of the most expensive cities in the NHL to live, Canadian market, high taxes, high housing costs, etc.  Any decent player coming to Vancouver as a UFA would expect longer term and about a third more in salary than they would take to play in low-tax locations like Vegas or Tampa.  People expect JB to be a miracle worker, but don't forget there are a lot of inputs that factor into the hunt for quality UFAs beyond just the fact that you want them to play for you.  As the Canucks have improved, they've been able to attract better UFAs, and players actually want to play here, so the players can see that things are improving, now I wish the armchair GMs could see the same thing.  

Edited by canuckleheads fan
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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Dude.  What does Stastny get paid and where was he in Vegas depth chart when we played him?  Where is Tyler Johnson?   Where was JT Miller for that matter?   Why do you think middle six players, in their first UFA contract, should be paid peanuts?    And you didn't answer my question, are you or are you not the Gaurdian?  189lbs?  One of the two i guess.  Not that i don't mind that but come out of the closet already. 

I’m a far bigger legend than those clowns. 

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Ovi says hello.   You make a lot of broad claim strokes.   I've been a physically fit person since i was a kid, and can say any physical decline doesn't happen at 28 like some magical mystical number.   If you read my posts - i've been saying trade Pearson since last TDL.   We signed a middle six winger to a covid contract and the usual loud mouths are freaking out with their blow horns.   Stop freaking out with every move he makes. 

 

Edit: Not only that i did a job that would put NHlers to shame.   Just a ridiculous assumption.   I wanted to trade Pearson for over a year.   Because his stock was high.  

Yes let’s compare the one off generational talent that rebounded after partying too hard. 
 

I don’t criticize every move he makes. I loved Schmidt, JT Miller, his ability to put together a scouting staff to draft the core. He has done some great things. It’s just a shame that he is so horrible at signing contracts and general organization. Ill call that out every time. 

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3 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:

I don’t  think JB is paying Pearson based on goal production or being a second liner. JB clearly values player experience with winning a cup and sees the intangibles that Pearson brings to help the young core. I’m not saying Pearson is worth 3.25 million and ED protection, just trying to make sense out of this signing. I probably prefer to see him and Virts traded for picks.

 

3 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:

I don’t  think JB is paying Pearson based on goal production or being a second liner. JB clearly values player experience with winning a cup and sees the intangibles that Pearson brings to help the young core. I’m not saying Pearson is worth 3.25 million and ED protection, just trying to make sense out of this signing. I probably prefer to see him and Virts traded for picks.

I think it's a dangerous tack to take, judging players for intangibles You're adding salary with an unidentifiable skill. This is precisely why our Salary Cap is messed up, when it's been shown to drag the team down we can't keep using the same strategy

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24 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

 

I think it's a dangerous tack to take, judging players for intangibles You're adding salary with an unidentifiable skill. This is precisely why our Salary Cap is messed up, when it's been shown to drag the team down we can't keep using the same strategy

I'm ok with that.   Like i've said over and over again trade Pearson, going back to last TDL.   But as far as value goes he's fine.   I just wanted to save the cap, make it tougher on the team next year, and use it later.    But i'm not running the team and what he did also makes sense.  To me the cap this off season allowed us to keep one of Sutter or Pearson.   Guess we know which one we kept, either has their pros and cons.    It's not the end of the world and as awful as some make it out to be.    Look at Skinner playing with Lazar (don't understand why this guys still even in the league), you can't expect several rookies to come in and make an impact every single year, that's not reality either so letting Pearson go,  getting a better guy like Hyman and then playing more rookies .... ouch.    

 

But we've grown used to it (rookies coming in and making an impact) so maybe now the Gaunces and Shinkaruks and Jensens of the world are now supposed to be Hogs like in some peoples minds?    They aren't and never will be.   Pearson's deal at two years would have been ideal.    Who knows.   Maybe he gets traded after this season.  Maybe it's about the ED.   Maybe JV is getting traded next week.    Way too much drama on this site over a minor move that hasn't hurt the team, just an average deal.   And going back one more time - I wanted to trade him last deadline, and every game since, because like you i'm also concerned about the cap.   But we don't have any genuine real inside info so don't mind waiting until i join in on sh!ting on this deal.    Begrudgingly, i admit it's a flat cap deal for a career middle six player in his prime which he is. 

 

Edit: On Lazar.  I've watched him before and after he played with OTT.   This is a reference to JV.   And it's supposed to be about unrealistic expectations with our prospects.    Pearson is a proven player.   

Edited by IBatch
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Vcr is a mediocre/poor team currently and that because we sign mediocre players and over pay. Our bottom 3 (Sutter Beagle and Rousell ) cost us $10.3 mill that's simply unsustainable and expect to be a top tier team. The definition of insanity it to keep repeating your mistakes and expecting a different out come. From what we're told Podkolzyn is a sure thing so if he plays alongside Horvat and Hoglander Pearson becomes a third line player .. costing us $3.25 mill That's more of the same, it has to stop if we wish to be better than medoicre. Strangely enough I like Pearson but  McCann has better stats  and is less expensive ... and younger

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21 hours ago, IBatch said:

Ovi says hello.   You make a lot of broad claim strokes.   I've been a physically fit person since i was a kid, and can say any physical decline doesn't happen at 28 like some magical mystical number.   If you read my posts - i've been saying trade Pearson since last TDL.   We signed a middle six winger to a covid contract and the usual loud mouths are freaking out with their blow horns.   Stop freaking out with every move he makes. 

 

Edit: Not only that i did a job that would put NHlers to shame.   Just a ridiculous assumption.   I wanted to trade Pearson for over a year.   Because his stock was high.  

I don't think picking the best goal scorer of this generation as an example means Pearson has the same trajectory. They play a different game. That's another reason why I am fine with Toffoli at 28 over Pearson at 28. Toffoli is a playmaker whose skills age better. Pearson even going as far back as the 70s line with Carter and Toff was the passenger who finished their plays. 

 

Ovie has also yet to show his decline but Pearson has already hit a rutt this year.

 

Realistically the upside of his deal is capped at 45 pts production. We're just hoping Pearson can find his game next year and this year is the anamoly.

 

If we're using Ovie as an example then on the flipside logic I can say McDavid is proof a 22 year old can carry a team to the playoffs and we don't need to sign aging vets to mentor and shelter them.

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On 4/9/2021 at 3:32 PM, Convincing John said:

I’m a far bigger legend than those clowns. 

Not even close.   Guardian and 189lbs are the best devils advocate i've seen on this site yet.   Need a balance and for that sir, i thank you. 

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On 4/9/2021 at 1:49 PM, Fred65 said:

Vcr is a mediocre/poor team currently and that because we sign mediocre players and over pay. Our bottom 3 (Sutter Beagle and Rousell ) cost us $10.3 mill that's simply unsustainable and expect to be a top tier team. The definition of insanity it to keep repeating your mistakes and expecting a different out come. From what we're told Podkolzyn is a sure thing so if he plays alongside Horvat and Hoglander Pearson becomes a third line player .. costing us $3.25 mill That's more of the same, it has to stop if we wish to be better than medoicre. Strangely enough I like Pearson but  McCann has better stats  and is less expensive ... and younger

Our bottom three costing $10 million is a function of the AHL cupboard being bare when JB took over. Ideally, you have three 2nd/3rd rounders filling those spots for about $3 million, but our second-rounders are either playing major roles (Hogs, Demko) or they're rounding into shape in Utica (Lind, Gadjovich). Eventually, Utica will produce those bottom-six value players that good team's get from their farm systems, it's just taking awhile to refill the cupboard.  Gadj is having a good season in Utica, he had a goal and assist in a loss last night, Lind was playing lights out in his new center role before getting called up to the taxi squad. I could see a bottom six that includes Big Mac, Gadg and maybe Boyd next year.

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not even close.   Guardian and 189lbs are the best devils advocate i've seen on this site yet.   Need a balance and for that sir, i thank you. 

I can’t reveal my true identity because stealth will gut me like the big I am. So I’m just going to make an official statement that I am a new user pretending to be a past user. 
 

I’m going to go on a journey and put myself in the shoes of this former legendary poster and tell you.

 

1. I just got my TN work visa and am heading to Texas to work on... um, solar panels. @Jimmy McGill knows.
 

2. I am totally rock throwing drunk from a 2.5hr layover in Phx. The lady is shutting the overhead compartments. She loves me. I can tell. 

2.1 if I was this legendary past user. I would tell you that I miss having fun conversations with the guys I disagree with. I disagree with you but at the same time I’m trying to make you laugh more than anything. I hope you understand that. 
3. We do not agree but I respect you because you informatively challenge my nonsense.

3.6. I love all of you. 

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14 hours ago, Convincing John said:

I can’t reveal my true identity because stealth will gut me like the big I am. So I’m just going to make an official statement that I am a new user pretending to be a past user. 
 

I’m going to go on a journey and put myself in the shoes of this former legendary poster and tell you.

 

1. I just got my TN work visa and am heading to Texas to work on... um, solar panels. @Jimmy McGill knows.
 

2. I am totally rock throwing drunk from a 2.5hr layover in Phx. The lady is shutting the overhead compartments. She loves me. I can tell. 

2.1 if I was this legendary past user. I would tell you that I miss having fun conversations with the guys I disagree with. I disagree with you but at the same time I’m trying to make you laugh more than anything. I hope you understand that. 
3. We do not agree but I respect you because you informatively challenge my nonsense.

3.6. I love all of you. 

Do you still get out on the lake in the Summer?

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