Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[CaptKirk888]

Believe it or not, in sports and the real world some owners/managers care more about having great staff/moral then the bottom line. I have seen businesses fail because of the focus on financial gain over customer service. As a fan, of course I expect leadership to deliver a winning product, but as many have mentioned on CDC, who would want to be here if players were disrespected and treated unfairly?

Thus I disagree with your statement that keeping the Sedins is/was an excuse for the delayed rebuild. My opinion and yours should both be considered and respected.

[kanucks25]

5 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Believe it or not, in sports and the real world some owners/managers care more about having great staff/moral then the bottom line. I have seen businesses fail because of the focus on financial gain over customer service. As a fan, of course I expect leadership to deliver a winning product, but as many have mentioned on CDC, who would want to be here if players were disrespected and treated unfairly?

Thus I disagree with your statement that keeping the Sedins is/was an excuse for the delayed rebuild. My opinion and yours should both be considered and respected.

We can agree to disagree.

 

But there's an argument to be made that being upfront and honest with them would be showing them respect. And I highly doubt they're so self-absorbed that they would feel morbidly disrespected. Everything we know about them says they would not have that reaction. If the Sedins didn't see the writing on the wall themselves (the way Kesler did), then that's on them.

 

They should have been given the choice: stick around and help with the rebuild if you don't want to move out of Vancouver, or have your choice of which team you want to be traded to. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Well here's a good list of all the defenceman set to be free agents next year, lots of names out there to choose from imo, but look at the list and look who's at the top of all those players in order for highest salary cap, good old Edler #1 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents

 

Edit: Change the position to defense and then click update results, for some reason the link isn't showing it for defense then you will see them all.

I would give up any d-man off our roster that doesn't have a Q in their name to get David Savard.  I was really impressed by him during their playoff runs. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

We can agree to disagree.

 

But there's an argument to be made that being upfront and honest with them would be showing them respect. And I highly doubt they're so self-absorbed that they would feel morbidly disrespected. Everything we know about them says they would not have that reaction. If the Sedins didn't see the writing on the wall themselves (the way Kesler did), then that's on them.

 

They should have been given the choice: stick around and help with the rebuild if you don't want to move out of Vancouver, or have your choice of which team you want to be traded to. 

And to a point Sedins did help with the rebuild.  The last two years here were really the beginning of the rebuild where we stopped trading picks and prospects for veterans.  The fact that we signed guys like Beagle and Roussel doesn't really bother me that much the way it bothers some on here. If that money was freed up earlier, we might be stuck in this terrible year with some fresh contracts that run for another 4-5 years now.  This way we get half our bad money off the books in a matter of weeks, and the other half in less then a calendar year. 

 

But I don't disagree with you that the writing was on the wall way before 2016 or whatever it was when we went into a full on rebuild. Just looking back at the trade history between 2014 to 2016 it was a lot of mixed signals if you will.  On one hand we would trade away Bieksa for a 2nd round pick, but then we would throw away a 3rd round pick to acquire someone like Andrey Pedan. 

 

Looking back at the trade history actually, I see that our professional scouting has gotten a lot better.  Take a look at this link and follow it chronologically.  We acquired some sleepers like Luke Schenn and Jim Dowd who went on to be important depth pieces on Stanley Cup Champion teams.  

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Vancouver_Canucks/1

[4petesake]

23 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Believe it or not, in sports and the real world some owners/managers care more about having great staff/moral then the bottom line. I have seen businesses fail because of the focus on financial gain over customer service. As a fan, of course I expect leadership to deliver a winning product, but as many have mentioned on CDC, who would want to be here if players were disrespected and treated unfairly?

Thus I disagree with your statement that keeping the Sedins is/was an excuse for the delayed rebuild. My opinion and yours should both be considered and respected.

I just finished putting this in another thread and didn’t want to retype it. I think it’s relevant so I’ll attach it here.

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, 4petesake said:

I just finished putting this in another thread and didn’t want to retype it. I think it’s relevant so I’ll attach it here.

 

 

People that say that the rebuild has been going on for 7 years have no clue what they're talking about. 

 

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Vancouver_Canucks/1  

 

You can see that up until 2014 we're still making moves to improve.  Between 2014 and 2016 we're making sideways moves.  2016 is when we finally start making moves to bring in some younger players as we were completely devoid of draft picks and prospects.  We literally had nothing on the farm.  Grenier and Gaunce were our prized possessions lol 

[4petesake]

2 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

People that say that the rebuild has been going on for 7 years have no clue what they're talking about. 

 

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Vancouver_Canucks/1  

 

You can see that up until 2014 we're still making moves to improve.  Between 2014 and 2016 we're making sideways moves.  2016 is when we finally start making moves to bring in some younger players as we were completely devoid of draft picks and prospects.  We literally had nothing on the farm.  Grenier and Gaunce were our prized possessions lol 

I remember that! Almost nobody to even get talk about calling up. Those were some empty cupboards.

[Devron]

@wallstreetamigo Had this whole thing typed up in the game day thread and it was closed when I pressed enter 

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, Devron44 said:

@wallstreetamigo Had this whole thing typed up in the game day thread and it was closed when I pressed enter 

Ditto! 

[Devron]

@wallstreetamigo
There thanks to copy and paste. I guess this is a better thread then any 

 

 

wallstreetamigo said:

Its like a cult with Benning supporters. Cant trust the media, its a personal attack against Benning if you question his moves or his competence.

 

The media has its own agenda. There’s a couple I trust but for the most part it’s trash.

 

wallstreetamigo said:

Why is the go to that its somehow a personal vendetta against Benning if anyone thinks he has screwed up? Its not personal at all. People just look at his body of work and feel he sucks at his job. It wouldnt matter to me who he was. If the next guy comes in and sucks at his job i will complain about him too.

 

Sometimes it is an actual personal vendetta. Scroll back a few pages. There’s are guy that literally said he wouldn’t save Benning from a fire. Flying a banner across Vancouver after what the team went through after 2 emotional games. C’mon.

 

My post wasn’t about people that disagree with Benning’s moves. It was more about the people that actually hate him, call him a moron. Twist every move into a bad one. Benning may not be the best communicator but I bet he’s a pretty smart guy. See what I’m saying here?

 

wallstreetamigo said:

Your opinion is that players like Gaudette and Tryamkin, or their value in trades, is not important. Other people think its very important. What makes you right and them wrong?

What value did Tryamkin have in a trade. You believe the guy actually wanted to be here? He was looking for a pay cheque. 

 

Gaudette, I was initially disappointed in that trade. Mostly because I was attached from watching him play, following his IG etc. Loved his celebrations etc. If we were going to move him it should have been last year when he actually had value. Imagine the crying if it did happen last year though, would it really have mattered what we got in return probably not from a firebenning perspective. Benning chose to see if he continued to improve his game. He didn’t, we moved on. You think Benning was going to chance another JV contract??

 

wallstreetamigo said:

You cannot admit a single thing you think Benning has done wrong but chastise people for not seeing the things he did right?

 

Stated twice in this thread Toffoli was mistake but also listed the reasons on why it happened.

 

Benning has signed 4 or 5 guys to big contracts a year too long and a million too much in his time here. He also is responsible for trying to make the best of the late Sedin era. Not obtaining draft picks and trying to make something outta the little assets we had. Who pressured him to do that? Doesn’t matter he’s the man making the moves.

 

Obviously Loui Eriksson was a mistake and it’s still haunting us today. That pretty much makes up for any cap issues we had this year. 

 

The injuries to newly signed guys... The Luongo recapture... Spooner buyout... Ferland fighting the minute he steps back onto the ice from a serious concussion. Twice!

 

It’s not just all this or all that. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

How does that square your argument with people like me who have posted many times about what I think he has done right or has been good at but also point out that imo on the whole there are lots of things he has screwed up and lots of things he sucks at?

 

Honestly I haven’t followed a lot of what you’ve posted. Our disagreement on the Gaudette trade and this thread come to mind. If you’ve made points about both sides of the coin then great. I’m referencing others then and there are a few of them believe me. I tend lean towards the so called Benning supporters because they are more rational. They also call out the bs when they see it so ya I like those guys and I guess I’m a supporter. I would like to see the guy and this team succeed. Blowing it up isn’t going to help us at this point imo. This team has no support from its fans right now. Brutal after what they went through this year.

 

45 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Am I only right when I say he did something right? Why is my judgment then correct but if I criticize him my judgment is suddenly faulty? 

 

The only time that becomes a possibility is when someone responding to me has no ability to be objective. 

 

I called out a guy about Hughes the other day and I quite agree on and like most of his posts. Is what it is I guess. Personally I could be more open minded about peoples opinions but as soon as I show some sort of agreement with a point say a firebenning guy has its all the other things he’s done wrong are replied. So why get into it? 

 

I mean we got guys like Apollo who are on the moon. Love that guy and his enthusiasm but he’s basically the exact opposite of the firebenning crew. Benning bad man, Benning do everything wrong crew lol. Other then that do Benning supporters really go on a rant every day about how great he is? I wish everyone looked at things with a big picture both sides of the coin attitude but that’s not realistic I guess. So for me I’ll continue to call it how I see it. 

[4petesake]

OK now your just making me mad! How’d you copy and paste? My reply was just gone.

 

Speaking of Apollo... I hope the Canucks didn’t break him with that last game. I don’t remember seeing him since.

 

Forgot to quote you Devron44.

Edited May 3, 2021 by 4petesake
Sp

[Devron]

1 minute ago, 4petesake said:

OK now your just making me mad! How’d you copy and paste? My reply was just gone.

 

Speaking of Apollo... I hope the Canucks didn’t break him with that last game. I don’t remember seeing him since.

Ahh hopefully not, I love that dude.

 

I had it all typed up and wouldn’t let me press enter. So I opened up another internet page in the forum and tried to copy and paste. Didn’t work properly so I copied it in Notes on my phone and it worked. Then copied from notes to this thread.

It was a process haha

[wallstreetamigo]

To be fair, yes Benning supporters at the extreme do the exact same thing as Benning haters. They do go over the top as well. I have seen a lot of vitriol toward players that has nothing to do with their play but is just to supposedly validate a Benning decision.

 

One told me the other day he hates on Gaudette because people hate on Benning. How is that different than someone saying they hate Benning?

 

Operating from the extremes is always unrealistic no matter which side of the argument does it. Appollo is a good example.

 

People can look at the same situation and come to a different conclusion. And that should be ok. We are all entitled to our opinion. 

 

Accepting other people's opinion without calling them names or questioning their intelligence or reasoning, or personally insulting them is in too short supply nowadays. 

 

When I evaluate Benning on the whole picture, I give him a 2 out of 10. You probably give him an 8. Its all in our perception. Its all subjective really. 

 

Respecting others right to have differing opinions even when you disagree is hard. But to me people who dont - whichever side they are on - are not to be taken seriously.

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

A lot of Benning supporters on here do actually invade every thread with a negative comment about him and crow about how perfect he is.

 

Lets at least be fair that it happens a lot on both sides.

[Devron]

10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

To be fair, yes Benning supporters at the extreme do the exact same thing as Benning haters. They do go over the top as well. I have seen a lot of vitriol toward players that has nothing to do with their play but is just to supposedly validate a Benning decision.

 

One told me the other day he hates on Gaudette because people hate on Benning. How is that different than someone saying they hate Benning?

 

Operating from the extremes is always unrealistic no matter which side of the argument does it. Appollo is a good example.

 

People can look at the same situation and come to a different conclusion. And that should be ok. We are all entitled to our opinion. 

 

Accepting other people's opinion without calling them names or questioning their intelligence or reasoning, or personally insulting them is in too short supply nowadays. 

 

When I evaluate Benning on the whole picture, I give him a 2 out of 10. You probably give him an 8. Its all in our perception. Its all subjective really. 

 

Respecting others right to have differing opinions even when you disagree is hard. But to me people who dont - whichever side they are on - are not to be taken seriously.

 

 

Towards the players yeah I’ve seen that too. Hoping they don’t succeed on other teams. Been there myself but usually it’s the jersey they are wearing. Example would be Calgary. I could care less about Chicago now. Years ago different story. I guess that’s the difference and why I’d like Gaudette to succeed there cause I like the player.

 

Not sure about that hate comment you mentioned. Seems unnecessary but maybe the guy was tired of all the bs about JB? Who knows can’t comment.

When there are 2 extremes to an argument from my own personal experiences the answer usually somewhere between. I guess that’s been my point the whole time.

Just not sure I see it the same way. I see way more fire this guy or that guy threads then actual positive ones even at the best of times.

I see posters that literally only talk about or post things from outside the forum that are anti Benning and that’s all they post/talk about. I honestly don’t see that from “Benning supporters” they also like to just talk hockey

 

Some of us just want to talk about hockey and all the aspects of it. But frankly some us on here are just plain miserable and it gets tiring. But I come here cause it’s not all like that, it’s actually the best place to talk Canucks hockey. These other forums, IG comments, Twitter. It’s nothing but trash. No one goes on there and says something intuitive or constructive. It’s just criticism of players, managers, coaches, the works.

[wallstreetamigo]

10 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Towards the players yeah I’ve seen that too. Hoping they don’t succeed on other teams. Been there myself but usually it’s the jersey they are wearing. Example would be Calgary. I could care less about Chicago now. Years ago different story. I guess that’s the difference and why I’d like Gaudette to succeed there cause I like the player.

 

Not sure about that hate comment you mentioned. Seems unnecessary but maybe the guy was tired of all the bs about JB? Who knows can’t comment.

When there are 2 extremes to an argument from my own personal experiences the answer usually somewhere between. I guess that’s been my point the whole time.

Just not sure I see it the same way. I see way more fire this guy or that guy threads then actual positive ones even at the best of times.

I see posters that literally only talk about or post things from outside the forum that are anti Benning and that’s all they post/talk about. I honestly don’t see that from “Benning supporters” they also like to just talk hockey

 

Some of us just want to talk about hockey and all the aspects of it. But frankly some us on here are just plain miserable and it gets tiring. But I come here cause it’s not all like that, it’s actually the best place to talk Canucks hockey. These other forums, IG comments, Twitter. It’s nothing but trash. No one goes on there and says something intuitive or constructive. It’s just criticism of players, managers, coaches, the works.

Both criticism and praise (in any environment) hold much more meaning when someone has the ability to do both. 

 

As someone who frequently criticizes Benning (but who also praises him when he makes good moves) I see some of the extreme Benning supporters as equally obnoxious, annoying, and tiring as you see Benning haters that have no ability to balance their arguments.

 

If you think its ok for someone to hate on a player or another poster on cdc because they are frustrated that someone else doesnt love Benning, then it stands to reason that its ok for those same people to hate on Benning or his supporters because they are frustrated that someone else doesnt hate him. In both cases that is wrong, in case you plan to misunderstand my point there.

 

I dont personally hate Benning. He seems like a nice enough guy. I just dont feel like he is a very good GM. I have a lot of reasons I believe that and I try to present my opinions on here because thats what the place is for. At the same time, I dont expect anyone to agree. Its simply my opinion based on my own knowledge, experience, information, and analysis of things. I dont need to be seen as right. No one on here is that important to me to be quite frank.

Edited May 3, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[Devron]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

If you think its ok for someone to hate on a player or another poster on cdc because they are frustrated that someone else doesnt love Benning, then it stands to reason that its ok for those same people to hate on Benning or his supporters because they are frustrated that someone else doesnt hate him. In both cases that is wrong, in case you plan to misunderstand my point there.

In what context? I hate the Leafs and I hate the Flames and they all have players. Ex Canuck players too. That’s part of hockey for me.

 

I don’t hate on other posters but I will call out there bs when I see it. I could get really nasty if I wanted to but ain’t going to do that. Maybe your just not in the group of people I’m talking about Amigo but it seems to me your offended by what I’ve said based on your last statement so are you? You said your 80/20 or rate Benning a solid 2 out of 10. fair enough.  You replied to me and I’ve answered. I’ve made my points 

[wallstreetamigo]

15 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

In what context? I hate the Leafs and I hate the Flames and they all have players. Ex Canuck players too. That’s part of hockey for me.

 

I don’t hate on other posters but I will call out there bs when I see it. I could get really nasty if I wanted to but ain’t going to do that. Maybe your just not in the group of people I’m talking about Amigo but it seems to me your offended by what I’ve said based on your last statement so are you? You said your 80/20 or rate Benning a solid 2 out of 10. fair enough.  You replied to me and I’ve answered. I’ve made my points 

I am not offended at all. Like I said, I dont really care what people think. But you said nothing that would have offended me.

 

I wasnt talking about hating players on other teams. I was talking about hating players on our team or those recently traded or not signed simply as a way to justify support of Benning. To me that is no different than people hating Benning simply because he is Benning. Its irrational in both cases.

 

As for insulting other posters because you disagree with their opinion, that to me doesnt add to the conversation. It doesnt prove you are right by saying someone else is stupid. It just proves you cant defend your opinion on its merits. That was my point.

[wallstreetamigo]

That isnt directed at you personally btw @Devron44. I personally dont mind discussing differing opinions with you. Sometimes it gets a bit heated but I dont think it gets insulting or unnecessarily rude and I respect that.

[CaptKirk888]

11 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

And to a point Sedins did help with the rebuild.  The last two years here were really the beginning of the rebuild where we stopped trading picks and prospects for veterans.  The fact that we signed guys like Beagle and Roussel doesn't really bother me that much the way it bothers some on here. If that money was freed up earlier, we might be stuck in this terrible year with some fresh contracts that run for another 4-5 years now.  This way we get half our bad money off the books in a matter of weeks, and the other half in less then a calendar year. 

 

But I don't disagree with you that the writing was on the wall way before 2016 or whatever it was when we went into a full on rebuild. Just looking back at the trade history between 2014 to 2016 it was a lot of mixed signals if you will.  On one hand we would trade away Bieksa for a 2nd round pick, but then we would throw away a 3rd round pick to acquire someone like Andrey Pedan. 

 

Looking back at the trade history actually, I see that our professional scouting has gotten a lot better.  Take a look at this link and follow it chronologically.  We acquired some sleepers like Luke Schenn and Jim Dowd who went on to be important depth pieces on Stanley Cup Champion teams.  

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Vancouver_Canucks/1

Fascinating but sent me down a dark tunnel as I read all of the trade history lol