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Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

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Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't see where belief or faith comes into it. 

Well it's all we have left.

 

The only alternative is results, but we haven't got much of that over the past 7 years.

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9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, it's been 7 years of something that was never going to happen and the whinging about it is STILL never ending. Eventually you'd think people would accept the reality of it and move on to other legit things to criticize... But here we are...

 

Being a fan in no way entitles you to anything resembling a detailed plan of the inner workings, of the management of the team.

 

I do agree though that their messaging could be a LOT better. That's an issue that pre dates Benning (or current ownership) though. Their public messaging can be QUITE lacking and if anything, Benning being the straight shooter he is, probably says too much (that then gets misconstrued, speculated and second guessed as you noted).

 

As I outlined earlier in the thread, the overall plan of building the team has been pretty straight forward from day one, from anyone that wasn't hell bent on a tear down and can't seem to see past that.

You are right, being a fan entitles you to nothing - except to be entertained. When someone feels they’re not getting it they are free to walk away.
However surely you’re not suggesting that I said we are entitled to a “detailed” plan? I was referring to clear language (again, like Brian Burke eg.) from the President of the club laying things out for fans.  This is not Jim’s strong suit as you rightly point out. 

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2 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Because you need to trade him for an asset.  

Who says he won't? What if he can't because of the injury? What if he can't because of Covid and cross border quarantine etc? Should we re-sign him anyway if he can't move him?

 

You guys seem to think everything is so laughingly black and white and easy and that external issues and other teams aren't remotely pieces of the puzzle lol

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15 minutes ago, Aladeen said:

You act like JB should have predicted a flat cap due to covid. You think TT wasn't worth a 2nd, he absolutely was and probably LA wanted a 1st. And the plan was no doubt to re-sign him for the long term. And Madden? the odds of him panning out as an NHL regular are almost nil (Buy Low - Sell High). So you can think of the cost of Schmidt (a first pairing D man on a great Vegas team) as a 2nd a 3rd and Madden (b level prospect at best). Who the hell wouldn't pay that price? Very fair deal IMO

 

 

The gm came out and said he ran out of time. That’s embarrassing. It was not great for ten games, sorry we lost assets. Our depth is already depleted. The organization is not set up to lose assets right now. When you have a plethora of assets to trade you can do that sure. The way it’s set up right now they can’t afford to just give assets for ten games. That’s the reality. The experience was ok but remember that really isn’t a playoff atmosphere right now so everything is a bit screwed up without fans. It will be an entirely new experience for them when fans return. What exactly did that experience in the bubble do for them this year? Not much. I think the biggest thing is that it showed the potential of Demko.

Edited by Canuckfanforlife82
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6 minutes ago, Josepho said:

more stellar planning from ol jimbo on display. can't wait until he walks and more excuses get made.

My guess is, the price is too high.

 

I like Pearson, but right now, he's worth more as a trade chip. Pearson is at 3.75 million right now. In a flat cap world, he's about a 2 million contract.

 

I like how Sutter has played this year, but I see his 4.375 million hit as equivalent value this summer being around 2 - 2.5 million. Roussel's 3 million is realistically about 1.25 million, Beagle, about the same, Benn about 1 million.

 

If we look at Hamonic, in a "Wow, look how fast the cap is rising" world, he would have signed before the season for something closer to 2.5 - 3 million.

 

Now, I'm not saying that the above signings or players, weren't solid signings. You always pay a little more to bring guys in, but there will be deals this summer, same as before this season. All teams are feeling the crunch on their bottom line as well as in what is allocated to current contracts. There's not going to be much to spend again, teams are going to make decisions they don't normally want to make about who they resign vs who they don't qualify because his QO is going to be too high due to the last contract structure.

 

The more that we can shed right now on these guys, the better we are moving into next season.

 

As far as I'm concerned, all of: Sutter, Roussel, Vessey (wouldn't mind resigning at the same rate), Benn, Boyd, Pearson, Beagle and Baertschi should be available, and especially on expiring contracts, we look at retaining if necessary, to get a higher pick.

 

This summer is an incredible opportunity to reset our team and grab some bargains to move forward with. Having extra picks will allow us to leverage other teams who are stuck in a tight cap position if we have the room to do it.

 

FIRE SALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Just now, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

The gm came out and said he ran out of time. That’s embarrassing. It was not great for ten games, sorry we lost assets. Our depth is already depleted. The organization is not set up to lose assets right now. When you have a plethora of assets to trade you can do that sure. The way it’s set up right now they can’t afford to just give assets for ten games. That’s the reality. 

Yup he ran out of time to make the adjustments need to keep TT and gain a top pairing Dman. That sucks it really does, but what can be done in a Covid cap crunch? To move anything would have costed more likely at least another 2nd or even a 1st to shuffle things to keep TT, talk about what kind of Bitching and Whining we would have had to read on CDC if he made those moves to "save embarrassing" some fans. Just look at the bitching and whining in the waiver pickup threads LOL and that's giving up no assets. 

 

TT grew up a habs fan, he probably jumped at the opportunity to play there and no doubt took a discount. 

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2 hours ago, appleboy said:

This is how I see Jim Benning's tenor.

 

Linden and Jim inherited an aging hockey club. One that had been on a win now agenda for several years in a row. Not only was the NHL product beginning to wane but their minor league system had been stripped to the bear bones . Most of the fan base expected them to announce a rebuild. To our surprise they instead went to the ufa market and continued with the win now agenda. After a decent season they were quickly and embarrassingly dispatched by the Flames. 

Season two fans were again prepared for the rebuild announcement. Even when asked directly about their plans they refused to even suggest the idea of a rebuild. Over the next few years they kept going back to the ufa market. Not once would they say the words rebuild. It was suggested that it would not be fair to put the twins through a rebuild. Not once did they come out and lay out a real plan. 

Once the twins retired you would think that would have triggered the club to use that opportunity to put forth a plan to rebuild the decimated organization. They sort of came out and hinted to a retool. LOL .  Yet they continued to go back to the ufa market. They made deals for other teams left overs to try and fill what Jim called the 22 to 25 year old players that were missing from our system. They were making moves to try to skip doing a proper rebuild. We began to see a conflict develop between Linden and Benning. Linden was starting to lean toward a proper rebuild and Jim wanted to continue on with the build on the fly motto. Management showed their true colors by siding with Jim.  Linden gets the boot.

Jim Benning's lack of planning and cap management has got the club into cap issues and restricted the clubs ability to add any talent for this year and next.       "That brings us to now".

 

So what is the plan? Be active at trade deadline? Playoffs at all cost? 

 

This club has been lacking a real plan of attack for years.

 

 

Maybe you see things differently. Please enlighten me.

 

 

Boo hoo.  
They aren’t coming out and fully explaining ‘the plan’.  
Why would they?   So there is just more stuff for you to complain about when every aspect doesn’t go perfect?   
They don’t owe you a fully written out and explained copy of ‘the plan’ every year.   
 

Not everything always works out perfectly.   
 

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14 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Nice, the draft is our Stanley Cup.

 

Nobody informed me that we were the Oilers.

We are not as bad as our schedule reflects. The Canucks really got screwed over by the schedule, worse than any other team. Not just the fast start with no exhibition games, but really, ZERO practice time for the first month. This is a solid division to play in no matter how good you are, and if you're going into games, totally exhausted, you're going to struggle.

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18 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

You are right, being a fan entitles you to nothing - except to be entertained. When someone feels they’re not getting it they are free to walk away.
However surely you’re not suggesting that I said we are entitled to a “detailed” plan? I was referring to clear language (again, like Brian Burke eg.) from the President of the club laying things out for fans.  This is not Jim’s strong suit as you rightly point out. 

Bit of a case of damned if they do, damned if they don't. They'll get crucified for the plan if they spell one out, or for not having one if they don't spell it out. They literally can't win.

 

Keeping things vague is just as much about PR and selling tickets etc as anything else. Why do you think they danced around the r-word for a couple seasons? 

 

Again, I agree their messaging could use a LOT of work and Benning specifically isn't the world's best public speaker. But IMO that means even less information, not more. You want unclear vaguery removed? IMO that equates to empty political style responses that don't actually tell you anything and/or simply less information all together.

 

There, we're no longer vague or have confusing messaging subject to interpretation etc. 

Edited by aGENT
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5 minutes ago, Aladeen said:

Yup he ran out of time to make the adjustments need to keep TT and gain a top pairing Dman. That sucks it really does, but what can be done in a Covid cap crunch? To move anything would have costed more likely at least another 2nd or even a 1st to shuffle things to keep TT, talk about what kind of Bitching and Whining we would have had to read on CDC if he made those moves to "save embarrassing" some fans. Just look at the bitching and whining in the waiver pickup threads LOL and that's giving up no assets. 

 

TT grew up a habs fan, he probably jumped at the opportunity to play there and no doubt took a discount. 

It’s not so much that he lost him, it’s just it makes it look like our gm is not incompetent. It questions his ability to make moves and sign players, coaches etc. I feel very nervous with Benning as gm. He tends to do a lot of things out of desperation and leaves things to the last minute. Maybe the owners have a lot to do with that. As a fan, does that give you a lot of confidence when the gms hands are tied? I think we need a gm with a stronger presence that can tell the owners to not worry about doing their (the gms) job. He just doesn’t seem to have the confidence to do that. A puppet is what I think about when he talks to the media.

Edited by Canuckfanforlife82
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2 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

Boo hoo.  
They aren’t coming out and fully explaining ‘the plan’.  
Why would they?   So there is just more stuff for you to complain about when every aspect doesn’t go perfect?   
They don’t owe you a fully written out and explained copy of ‘the plan’ every year.   
 

Not everything always works out perfectly.   
 

Why would Benning broadcast to his competing GM's what his priorities are? For sure he doesn't owe the fans any 'detailed' plan. Comical what goes on here.

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1 hour ago, Alain Vigneault said:

In seriousness, the "plan" has changed multiple times and been reimagined on the fly.  That has led to the execution behind exacting these plans to miss the mark quite frequently.

 

Whether it was building a winning team in the beginning, or retooling/rebuilding now, there's been a cycle of one step forward and two steps back with a lot of the moves.  Drafting has been fairly consistent, which is great, but pro scouting and asset management, to date, have been atrocious and we have suffered immensely for it.

 

Peaks and troughs, ups and downs, are inevitable, especially in the proverbial grind to the "top", but the extent to which we hit these troughs, these lows, are far too frequent.  This most recent set of lows after our success in the bubble has especially been damaging.

 

So, what is the plan?  Well, 3 weeks ago, we were "2 years away", and last week going into this week, we were seeing if this team could ride a string of wins into the playoffs and refusing to sell assets because of that.  That says it all.

We won 8 out of 10 games.  Was Benning supposed to just sell all his assets when your team is winning?  You think the owner is going to approve that when he may have a shot at some playoff revenue.

 

Stop living in a bubble.  it's not all black and white.  Decisions are being made on a weekly basis and changes are always being looked at.  We are not Buffalo where we know we are the worst team in the league so therefore you can look at trading core assets as well as expiring contracts no matter what the team does on the ice.  With the Canucks we play well enough to win some games and not others, so alot of that has to do with coaching and preparation.  Not to mention we have several key injuries right now.

 

I'm sure in the next 2 weeks we will be looking at moving some assets and preparing for next year.  Hopefully Benning can get some picks and then plan for the summer to offload some bad contracts and pick up a couple key UFA targets.  We need a 3C and a partner for Hughes.  Those 2 players should be the sole priority in the offseason.  We don't really have anyone in the organization for those positions so Benning will need to acquire them via trade or free agency.

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2 hours ago, appleboy said:

This is how I see Jim Benning's tenor.

 

Linden and Jim inherited an aging hockey club. One that had been on a win now agenda for several years in a row. Not only was the NHL product beginning to wane but their minor league system had been stripped to the bear bones . Most of the fan base expected them to announce a rebuild. To our surprise they instead went to the ufa market and continued with the win now agenda. After a decent season they were quickly and embarrassingly dispatched by the Flames. 

Season two fans were again prepared for the rebuild announcement. Even when asked directly about their plans they refused to even suggest the idea of a rebuild. Over the next few years they kept going back to the ufa market. Not once would they say the words rebuild. It was suggested that it would not be fair to put the twins through a rebuild. Not once did they come out and lay out a real plan. 

Once the twins retired you would think that would have triggered the club to use that opportunity to put forth a plan to rebuild the decimated organization. They sort of came out and hinted to a retool. LOL .  Yet they continued to go back to the ufa market. They made deals for other teams left overs to try and fill what Jim called the 22 to 25 year old players that were missing from our system. They were making moves to try to skip doing a proper rebuild. We began to see a conflict develop between Linden and Benning. Linden was starting to lean toward a proper rebuild and Jim wanted to continue on with the build on the fly motto. Management showed their true colors by siding with Jim.  Linden gets the boot.

Jim Benning's lack of planning and cap management has got the club into cap issues and restricted the clubs ability to add any talent for this year and next.       "That brings us to now".

 

So what is the plan? Be active at trade deadline? Playoffs at all cost? 

 

This club has been lacking a real plan of attack for years.

 

 

Maybe you see things differently. Please enlighten me.

 

 

 

4E71BFF0-E48B-4126-9F66-4F19CBC9F57C.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

It’s not so much that he lost him, it’s just it makes it look like our gm is not incompetent. It questions his ability to make moves and sign players, coaches etc. I feel very nervous with Benning as gm. He tends to do a lot of things out of desperation and leaves things to the last minute. Maybe the owners have a lot to do with that. As a fan, does that give you a lot of confidence when the gms hands are tied? I think we need a gm with a stronger presence that can tell the owners to not worry about doing their (the gms) job. He just doesn’t seem to have the confidence to do that. A puppet is what I think about when he talks to the media.

Maybe that is the case he is just a puppet for Aquallini, if that is the case well ownership has more invested in this team than anyone else. If anyone wants the Canucks to win its FA. He wants to win a cup more than you or I, because not only as a fan does he get the satisfaction of winning but also truckloads of money to boot. So it does all rest with him. The buck stops at ownership as it should be which is exactly why whatever he chooses to do is what he thinks is best for the team. If that means keeping Benning, then great I support that, if he fires him, fine I support that too. Until you or I have enough money to buy the team we should just be happy that we have an owner that is invested in the success of the team we choose to cheer for, because there are some owners that are just in it for the money and aren't actually fans of the sport themselves. 

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51 minutes ago, apollo said:

Damn dude I tried everything to help u see the positive but u keep putting a bad spin on it and being negative at any counter I have... 

 

Brock wasn't a top 3 pick dude. He was 23rd. 

 

And out of all 6 players mentioned, Brock ep Quinn kd harden rus... Brock is by far miles away ahead of all 5 in character. 

 

I think Brock might be the best human we've had come thru here. Sedins as glorious as they were, weren't giving back like Brocky has so early on. They also weren't scoring like him this early on. (no disrespect to my two lords Henrik and Daniel, just pointing out the obvious) 

 

It's really sad that youre trying to bring Brocky down. I wish you well, I hope you see the light one day. 

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/boeser-girl-down-syndrome-internet-troll

 

image.png.f54b51e07615db1c84410226dea76d2d.png

 

Never said anything about Brock as a human being.  I wouldn't have a problem with dating my sister.:)

 

That wasn't the question you posed though. 

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2 hours ago, apollo said:

i was fired up typing fast, i meant to say calder winner or runner up :)

 

brock and quinn both 2nd... also look at Quinn #'s vs Makar RN or Barzal...

 

Compare their stats, they're 3 clear winners if you look at it now, why can't u see that?

The fact that he accomplished that through drafting and development and is still heavily scrutinized tells you how horrible he has been in other areas. He is  probably an 9/10 in drafting, he is getting better at trades so I’ll give him a 6/10 in trading. UFA signings/contract is easily a 2/10 maybe less. That puts him at  5.7 out of 10. To win a Stanley cup in this league you need a GM who is a 7 or higher in all 3 areas. He is so, so horrible at signing UFA’s that it’s nearly nullifies his elite drafting and development. 
 

Other cons

- He is horrible at putting players together that have chemistry. Seriously, who plays well together in the bottom 6? He literally hand picked all those players and none of them play well together. 
- He admittedly doesn’t look far ahead, when you hear things like “I ran out of time” “I look at our team day to day” it’s hard to accept his excuses. 

 

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2 hours ago, appleboy said:

I agree that the club has drafted well under Jim. We all do. 

So is that the plan? Fumble through year after year with no direction?        How many extra draft picks could have been acquired if there was an organized plan to maximize assets?

I would rather that the organized plan was to win the Stanley Cup.  
 

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7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We won 8 out of 10 games.  Was Benning supposed to just sell all his assets when your team is winning?  You think the owner is going to approve that when he may have a shot at some playoff revenue.

 

Stop living in a bubble.  it's not all black and white.  Decisions are being made on a weekly basis and changes are always being looked at.  We are not Buffalo where we know we are the worst team in the league so therefore you can look at trading core assets as well as expiring contracts no matter what the team does on the ice.  With the Canucks we play well enough to win some games and not others, so alot of that has to do with coaching and preparation.  Not to mention we have several key injuries right now.

 

I'm sure in the next 2 weeks we will be looking at moving some assets and preparing for next year.  Hopefully Benning can get some picks and then plan for the summer to offload some bad contracts and pick up a couple key UFA targets.  We need a 3C and a partner for Hughes.  Those 2 players should be the sole priority in the offseason.  We don't really have anyone in the organization for those positions so Benning will need to acquire them via trade or free agency.

When has Benning in his tenure been able trade players on the roster for assets? We have seen this story before. He will come out and say he tried but there was nothing. You will see a lot of other teams make trades and we will be left scratching our heads. How come it is so hard for our team make moves and yet we see other teams making trades and getting assets back? It’s because they have gms that are capable. If he surprises me that will be awesome but I expect more excuses as to why they couldn’t make trades. It happens almost every year. The puzzled, bewildered look we have become so accustomed to. I hope I am wrong but with covid it’s another excuse to use.

Edited by Canuckfanforlife82
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