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Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

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6 minutes ago, gurn said:

How about admitting you were wrong about the turn around, before trying to move the goalposts?

how about admitting Michael Ferland destroyed our "turn around" in 4 games 

so in true Canuckian fashion Jimmer waited til he was washed up and signed him

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3 minutes ago, lmm said:

how about admitting Michael Ferland destroyed our "turn around" in 4 games 

so in true Canuckian fashion Jimmer waited til he was washed up and signed him

Have you ever seen me say Ferland wasn't a great player against us in that series?

Well then I guess i've got nothing to admit to then.

 

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3 minutes ago, gurn said:

Sure, no idea at all.

:rolleyes:

Still won't admit that Benning did turn the team around in a hurry.

 

 

Do you really believe that. this teams been in free fall for years, that's my belief

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2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Have you ever seen me say Ferland wasn't a great player against us in that series?

Well then I guess i've got nothing to admit to then.

 

Don't we mock the Leafs for losing in the first round?

At Least they lose to Boston, (who incidently beat us as well)

We lost to 1 player

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18 minutes ago, lmm said:

mediocre goalies can post 3 shutouts in a row- see Brian Boucher

mediocre players can score 50 - see Devon Setigouchi

and the Toronto Maple leafs can have a good regular season but fail in the playoffs

 

that's a real Cliff Claven moment.  interesting trivia, but....

I'll bite.

who's the mediocre goaltender analogy supposed to represent?

the mediocre 50 scorer ? 

who are the Boucher and Setoguchi's you're referrring to?

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18 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

The plan the way I see it.

1. Make some big signings, go for another run with the Sedins. 

2. OK, terrible season.  Draft high, add expensive vets and get back to dominating. 

3. OK another horrible season? Draft high, add overpriced vets, trade for more 23-25 year olds and sign more people.  No way there's another bad season.  Retool time. 

4. OK so another high pick, just add more overpriced vets.  No way it doesn't work again.  You know what.  Trade 1st and 2nd round pick to sneak into the playoffs.  

5. OK retool again, well.. mostly just lose players because of expensive vets.  

6.  Going for it again!

7. OK another terrible season, don't have money to sign overpriced vets.

8. Wait 2 years for money to sign expensive vets. 

This is easily the best post I’ve seen on CDC in probably 10 years. An absolute masterpiece. It’s funny, it’s accurate, it is a dagger in the Benning loving heart. I’m actually going to print this off, fold it up and store it in my wallet. Thank you sir. 

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13 minutes ago, oldnews said:

that's a real Cliff Claven moment.  interesting trivia, but....

I'll bite.

who's the mediocre goaltender analogy supposed to represent?

the mediocre 50 scorer ? 

who are the Boucher and Setoguchi's you're referrring to?

the 2014-15 Cancuks

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As @CanadianRugby so eloquently eluded. This team’s drafting success is actually a system of failure. The mistakes have slowly started overlapping and compounding to actually handcuff the teams ability to make improvements. At no point was Jim not giving it his all to make the playoffs every single year. There was never a plan to step back. The step back is the symptom of bad management. 
 

 

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37 minutes ago, gurn said:

Sure, no idea at all.

:rolleyes:

Still won't admit that Benning did turn the team around in a hurry.

 

 

Gurn gurn take a look at the standing we're bottom in the North Division, does that look like success to you honestly.

 

Hey i wondered if I'm getting it wrong so I checked the standing since JB took over.

 

2020 .... 17th O/A

2019 ....  23rd "

2018 ....  26th "

2017 ....  29th "

2016 ....  28th "

2015 ....  8th  "   and the year we played with the previous management basic roster, we crashed out 1 and gone in the play-offs

You make call this exemplary, me i just don't see this as a great addition to any ones resume

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29 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Gurn gurn take a look at the standing we're bottom in the North Division, does that look like success to you honestly.

 

Hey i wondered if I'm getting it wrong so I checked the standing since JB took over.

 

2020 .... 17th O/A

2019 ....  23rd "

2018 ....  26th "

2017 ....  29th "

2016 ....  28th "

2015 ....  8th  "   and the year we played with the previous management basic roster, we crashed out 1 and gone in the play-offs

You make call this exemplary, me i just don't see this as a great addition to any ones resume

Stil avoiding the fact that J.B.. did turn the team around  in his first year.

All else is  clutter, by you, to attempt to cover for you being unable to admit to being wrong.

Sad.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Gurn gurn take a look at the standing we're bottom in the North Division, does that look like success to you honestly.

 

Hey i wondered if I'm getting it wrong so I checked the standing since JB took over.

 

2020 .... 17th O/A

2019 ....  23rd "

2018 ....  26th "

2017 ....  29th "

2016 ....  28th "

2015 ....  8th  "   and the year we played with the previous management basic roster, we crashed out 1 and gone in the play-offs

You make call this exemplary, me i just don't see this as a great addition to any ones resume

I guess you expect what isn't within the realm of reality.    Sorry to break the news,  but top teams like we were for 14 years, have to pay the piper at the end.   That's reality. 

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25 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 Sorry to break the news,  but top teams like we were for 14 years, have to pay the piper at the end.   That's reality. 

There we can agree, I want to be a top team once again and ..... I, me, alone, just don't see the progression at the end of this season we'll be worse than last year, I can't under any rose coloured filter say that's a progression and further I can't for the life of me understand how others think we're heading in the right direction. We currently sit O/A in the league standing at  #28th .... 28th !! unless I'm misreading this .... that's not good  ..good gracious 28th and yet fans keep applauding, unbelievable

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32 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

There we can agree, I want to be a top team once again and ..... I, me, alone, just don't see the progression at the end of this season we'll be worse than last year, I can't under any rose coloured filter say that's a progression and further I can't for the life of me understand how others think we're heading in the right direction. We currently sit O/A in the league standing at  #28th .... 28th !! unless I'm misreading this .... that's not good  ..good gracious 28th and yet fans keep applauding, unbelievable

Applauding for coming in 28th whos doing that? Saying we don't have a good future is absurd tho. For years and years and years we complained about not having a good 2nd line and now we finally do and for heavens sake look how young it is. Petey(22) Brock(23) Hög(20) podz(20) throw on to of that one of the best young dman in the entire league in  quinn(21). To sit here and say we havent done anything or not heading in the right direction is ridiculous do you think these players grow on trees or expect other teams to give us these kind of players?

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2 hours ago, gurn said:

Stil avoiding the fact that J.B.. did turn the team around  in his first year.

All else is  clutter, by you, to attempt to cover for you being unable to admit to being wrong.

Sad.

 

 

That clutter seems awful lot like facts ?

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3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Gurn gurn take a look at the standing we're bottom in the North Division, does that look like success to you honestly.

 

Hey i wondered if I'm getting it wrong so I checked the standing since JB took over.

 

2020 .... 17th O/A

2019 ....  23rd "

2018 ....  26th "

2017 ....  29th "

2016 ....  28th "

2015 ....  8th  "   and the year we played with the previous management basic roster, we crashed out 1 and gone in the play-offs

You make call this exemplary, me i just don't see this as a great addition to any ones resume

Isn’t this called rebuilding?  Look at the young players we have now, and who are coming along.  We actually look pretty good for the future.  Yes, it’s hard to watch our team do poorly, but the reward is we end up with a really good young team, with several good young prospects pushing from below.  It’s how a top team becomes a top team, and then sustains being a top team.  Draft a very good young core, and then have more young guys coming up.  

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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Isn’t this called rebuilding?  Look at the young players we have now, and who are coming along.  We actually look pretty good for the future.  Yes, it’s hard to watch our team do poorly, but the reward is we end up with a really good young team, with several good young prospects pushing from below.  It’s how a top team becomes a top team, and then sustains being a top team.  Draft a very good young core, and then have more young guys coming up.  

Actually, its not how top teams stay top teams. Its one part of the process.

 

Drafting a good core, yes. Drafting other players to come in, sure. But knowing when and how to trade veterans for more picks or young players who arent a fit before you bottom out their value is a key to every good team. Signing the right free agents. Managing the salary cap effectively. Those are all things that good teams do well.

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5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Actually, its not how top teams stay top teams. Its one part of the process.

 

Drafting a good core, yes. Drafting other players to come in, sure. But knowing when and how to trade veterans for more picks or young players who arent a fit before you bottom out their value is a key to every good team. Signing the right free agents. Managing the salary cap effectively. Those are all things that good teams do well.

Good points.  I wish we would have kept Gilman to help with cap management.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, IBatch said:

How long did it take CLB to make the playoffs?  Basically we started with Horvat and Hutton lol...and an aging core that mostly refused to leave...CAR missed NINE years in a row, and this is EDM second time making the show since they went to the final in 2006.   It is what it is.   Factually, and literally, JB entire time here including one year of playoffs during the re-tool, and one year with the rebuild, is better then par these days.   And this is no ordinary rebuild because a teams tired of being in the mushy middle, from 2000-2014 SJ, VAN, DET won more games then any other team in the NHL.   For NINE years we drafted nobody before JB came along, all the way back to Nonis Edler draft ... again like starting with a new franchise under the old rules.   Yes if MG didn't claude every single core and support player up then maybe JB could have accelerated it.   Didn't happen.   And now 32 teams.  At least the league figured it out because no way does a new franchise want to wait 15 years to make the show.    Things aren't great, but they certainly aren't as bad as some make it out to be and i have to wonder to myself are these folks either living in the past and not caught up with current events, or just know nothing but the WCE plus Sedin era and got comfortable with all the winning. 

 

ARI. BUFF.  Heck even the Tavares led NYI didn't take.  CAR took two complete rebuilds to get where they are today.  For sure that could end up becoming us too.    OTT probably had the fastest complete rebuild during the current era, but even they missed four years in a row.   Maybe when our kids are close to free agency that will be us (a total tear down).   But i doubt it.     Fans complain endlessly about our UFA signings yet Yzerman and Dorian have done the exact same thing, with some of our throw aways too (Gagne, Stecher, Gudbranson) because that's what you have to do when you don't have actual roster players to fill the spots (duh, good teams actually draft AND develop and don't throw their babies into the deep end no matter how much they look like aces at the start). 

 

No it's not perfect.   But it's better then average.  Quite a bit really. 

I have so many things to say about this but I don’t have the energy to type too much atm.

 

All that I’ll ask you is, if I told you back in 2014 about the results of the upcoming seven years  and the team’s current outlook, would you be saying, “man, Benning really did a better than average job!”
 

The bottom line is, no GM is ever brought in with the expectation that 7 years later something like this would be considered “better than average.” The examples you listed are teams that were also poorly managed and as a result had significant turnover.

 

I find it hard to believe that if this happened to a rival team, you’d be claiming their GM has been doing a really good job.

Edited by Grape
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Grape said:

I have so many things to say about this but I don’t have the energy to type too much atm.

 

All that I’ll ask you is, if I told you back in 2014 about the results of the upcoming seven years  and the teams current outlook, would you be saying, “man, Benning really did a better than average job!”
 

The bottom line is, no GM is ever brought in with the expectation that 7 years later something like this would be considered “better than average.” The examples you listed are teams that were also poorly managed and as a result had significant turnover.

It makes you wonder why our GM comparables are always perennial bottom feeding teams like ARI, BUF, CAR, and EDM (the last 2 now having come out the other side of course) rather than top teams who actually compete for cups.

 

Should we be exalting Benning as the saviour for keeping up with those teams? Or should we be holding him responsible for all the wasted cap space, bad trades, and terrible free agent signings that keeps this team from becoming a contending team?

 

Even if you think Benning has been "good enough" its still not good enough.

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