Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[iinatcc]

26 minutes ago, gurn said:

He said he could turn it around quick and he did.

Why can'y people admit that?

I've yet to see anyone quoting him saying "I'mma turn it around quick and keep it there.

The team still had a pretty good core which had some bad coaching the year before. Benning did tweak the team for 2014 - 2015 and actually did a good job getting Miller, Vrbata, and Richardson to decent contracts and acquired Bonino and brought Horvat him. Basically he was able to support a decent core and gave the team one more run at the playoffs.

 

But after that season it was time to rebuild the team. And this is where Benning struggled, it took him 6 years to get the team back in the playoffs (and to be honest I'm not even sure if they would have made it to the playoffs if covid didn't happen). 

 

6 years is a long time and now he's expecting the fans to wait 2 more years to be competitive?

[spur1]

9 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

The team still had a pretty good core which had some bad coaching the year before. Benning did tweak the team for 2014 - 2015 and actually did a good job getting Miller, Vrbata, and Richardson to decent contracts and acquired Bonino and brought Horvat him. Basically he was able to support a decent core and gave the team one more run at the playoffs.

 

But after that season it was time to rebuild the team. And this is where Benning struggled, it took him 6 years to get the team back in the playoffs (and to be honest I'm not even sure if they would have made it to the playoffs if covid didn't happen). 

 

6 years is a long time and now he's expecting the fans to wait 2 more years to be competitive?

Good cooking takes time.

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

He said he could turn it around quick and he did.

Why can'y people admit that?

I've yet to see anyone quoting him saying "I'mma turn it around quick and keep it there."

Because this team was already a 100pt team before Aquilini forced Tortorella onto Gillis. And the decision to fire Tortorella was made by Linden before he hired Benning.

 

Just as some are not willing to give Gillis credit for walking into the 2011 core. I'm not about to give Benning credit for walking into a team that was a 100pt team to begin with and just had an anomaly of a bad year with a coach that clearly didn't fit and was already gone by the time he was here. I think he did what any average GM could have done to support the core, but the team in 2013-14, while clearly stale in the core, wasn't a bottom tier team. Plus having a coach that didn't ask the Sedins to play on the PK helps tremendously. 

 

Also, we have very different definitions of 'Turning it around quick' if you want to put 2015 as the hill to die on as a success for JB. There's other areas I think where a case can be made for him....but not this.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by DSVII

[DSVII]

24 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Good cooking takes time.

haha sorry, i freaking love analogies and it just reminds me of this

(in seriousness, I do see some good things coming on the horizon (podz, hogz, rathbone), there was just a lot of unnecessary pain, unforced errors and wasted years of Bo/Boeser to get there)

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by DSVII

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Sigh.  That is nice to read.   Things happen for a reason, JV and Podz and Hogs kind of blocked things up didn't it. Be honest, who would you rather have, Hogs on his ELC or TT?   Or who would you rather have - a 10-12 best prospect in the entire world, after last years draft, 6'4" or TT?   JB isn't an idiot.   He knows what's coming up better then any of us.   TT needs to be let go.   Like pining over Geoff Sanderson or Shawn Burke.  He's not the first guy to come in and play a dozen or so games and move on and he won't be the last. 

 

BTW:  Hogs was considered around 28 overall best prospect to start the season.   And costs 1/5 what TT ended up costing.   I highly doubt, seriously doubt TT will score 30 again in his career.   He for sure got his vengeance ....   but what did he really do for our club?  Big deal.   Pearson with his new contract, is just as good.  

I think @iinatcc put it succinctly. It wasn't a binary, mutually exclusive decision. Both could have been here, even taking into account Loui/Roussel/Beagle. JB just chose Virtanen and Holtby over TT.

 

Imagine Hoglander killing it on our third line against weaker defensive pairings, with Pearson/Bo/Toffoli anchoring our second. How much of a difference his at least 20+ goals could have made on our season. 

[iinatcc]

23 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Good cooking takes time.

Well tell that to Vegas 

[alt kilgore]

10 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Good cooking takes time.

Good cooking also takes timing.

 

Any cook can grill a hamburger and drop some fries.

What separates him from a good chef, is that the latter also knows how to have all the elements of the meal ready at once.  The fresh young salad, the root vegetables on the plate holding up the main protein star(s).  

 

If one is not ready at the right time, you may have to re-fire the whole lot

 

 

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

Well tell that to Vegas 

Ouchhh, not fair. Use a different example! Don’t get me started on the way the league sold out to make sure their new star franchise was competitive. This one still stings.

 

That said, Vegas did an excellent job gaming the system.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, spur1 said:

Good cooking takes time.

It also takes a good chef and the right ingredients.

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

Because this team was already a 100pt team before Aquilini forced Tortorella onto Gillis. And the decision to fire Tortorella was made by Linden before he hired Benning.

Correct, it was a 100 point team before Torterella, then during Torterella it wasn't a 100 point team; then J.B. got the job, and quickly turned the team around to being a 100 point team again; just like he said he could.

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, spur1 said:

Good cooking takes time.

The delivery Boy brought some of the ingredients

Now we need to hire a chef and prepare the full meal

[lmm]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

He said he could turn it around quick and he did.

Why can'y people admit that?

I've yet to see anyone quoting him saying "I'mma turn it around quick and keep it there."

I guess the real question is, what are you looking for?

I just read Jim's interview from 2014.

He also said he would make this a 4 line team

and heavier, able to play both ways (heavy and fast)

and 

Who in their right mind wants a turn around that lasts one regular season?

 

You seem to be splitting hairs. If I admit Jim turned the team around, what then?

the team Jim turned around failled for the 3 previous years  and the following 4 years

 

Is your bar really set so low that one 101 point regular season satisfies you?

 

what would have been really kool is if Jim said, "I'mma turn it around quick and then try to prop up the Sedins for the rest of their careers by signing guys coming off career years to bloated contracts and draft small skill guys til the cows come home and make this team a regular season success but a play off failure just like the Leafs"

At least then he would have covered all his bases

[lmm]

4 minutes ago, gurn said:

Correct, it was a 100 point team before Torterella, then during Torterella it wasn't a 100 point team; then J.B. got the job, and quickly turned the team around to being a 100 point team again; just like he said he could.

Better than a 100 point team the Canucks won the Presidents trophy in 2012

then bombed in the first round

were you satisfied with that?

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, lmm said:

You seem to be splitting hairs. If I admit Jim turned the team around, what then?

Then we move on to what has gone wrong and what has gone right since.

I have no problem with people being ticked at J.B. or the team or whatever, just like it to be fact based.

Same way I  pointed out to the poster that claimed we had just missed the play offs  5 out of 6 years for the first time ever; was wrong, as we have  acrtually done that twice.

i'm not a huge J.B. supporter, just want to see him get blamed for factual things and not made up hyperbole.

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

The team still had a pretty good core which had some bad coaching the year before. Benning did tweak the team for 2014 - 2015 and actually did a good job getting Miller, Vrbata, and Richardson to decent contracts and acquired Bonino and brought Horvat him. Basically he was able to support a decent core and gave the team one more run at the playoffs.

 

But after that season it was time to rebuild the team. And this is where Benning struggled, it took him 6 years to get the team back in the playoffs (and to be honest I'm not even sure if they would have made it to the playoffs if covid didn't happen). 

 

6 years is a long time and now he's expecting the fans to wait 2 more years to be competitive?

From what you've just said, you gave JB props for finding the right players for the team to still succeed (and i agree, without Miller and to a certain degree Vrbata we we're screwed) , team bounced back from a bottom team to 7th overall.    
 

I wasn't sure if re-signing the Sedins was a good idea.   Definitely didn't think trading Luongo was a good idea.   Not if the re-tool had a chance.   The actual rebuild didn't start until 2017.   When Hansen and Burrows waived ... the rebuild however was already starting because JB didn't pull a Wilson (SJ) and go all in on an endless re-tool. Kept our picks where they needed to be, didn't trade too much, just enough to try and fill the massive tweener gap we had. (you know, the NINE years where we drafted all of Horvat and Hutton...MG traded ONE first that wasn't replaced...)..

 

At least that's how i see it.   And kept getting shafted by the new draft rules year after year and made lemonade out of lemons every year.   Sure he signed LE ... but hasn't made that same mistake three Buffalo has.  

 

I might come across as a homer - but it's only because several, by far not the majority, but several keep complaining and complaining and complaining about what is already done.   Sure they are happy about BB, EP, QHs, Hogs, Demko, soon to be Podz, Miller, Schmidt and probably not Myers because you think these guys just grow on trees and come up all the time which for sure they do not.

 

   Not saying we should keep him, actually feel between JB and TG the former is the first to go but get change is sometimes needed.  JV might be the straw that breaks the back who knows..   This year and maybe next year too, but doubt it, is what it is.   IF JB committed to 80 million in contracts with the guys that left AND decimated our pool and future pool with the picks that would cost id be leading the CDC in the FIRE BENNING right now both threads and posts.  Probably get told to shut up by the mods.  

 

He didn't.   Also said two drafts ago that the best possible scenario is Podz slips - he did.  And JB took him ( nothing forcing him to do this).   I'm sorry to break the news - Buffalo just missed the playoffs 10 times in a row.   EDM has made the playoffs twice since 2006... based on that alone JB must be the best GM in the league lol.    CAR missed 9 and is on their third core since their cup.  Look at them now, and yes that's a REALISTIC view of today's NHL. 

 

These things happen.  It's the way the league is structured now with 32 freaking teams.    OTT cashed out and is going to reap the benifits.  Still missed four years in a row and counting, just like we did.   Vancouver couldn't so stop complaining about it.   Blame MG and Bettman, they have more to do with it then what JB did.   Would take a miracle these days to do much better ... if your not aware of this then look around some more. 

 

Doesn't mean he gets a pass because no he does not.   But he's still done an above average job.  Seriously.  CLB, ATL/WNP is close to what we ended up becoming when they came into the league, but no Rick Nash, Heatley/Hossa, no Kovi (yet).    Just .. Horvat and Hutton and a pile of country club players.   KB shame as you were one of them.   This team wasn't going anywhere while MG country club was around and you know it.    

 

Post Sedin ..  plus 120ish games....one playoff one miss.   Boo-hoo.   It's a very very very long process now.    Need a lot of luck (we haven't had any) at the draft to get the top players as they are designated.    But still managed to draft like the 2-3 third best team in the league, despite drafting an average of 10-12 overall.   Both Dorian and Yzerman picked up plugs too (Gagne, Stetcher and Guddy say hi!)   Detroit traded their Horvat we might have to as well.  But we are not there yet... and that was cream of the crop for two decades Holland running the show.    If your going to bitch about JB, please provide comps.   Factually we have two. SJ and Detroit.   But if you'd liked to compare us to ARI, CAR, BUFF, NYI, NYR, OTT, EDM, CAL or whomever i'd be happy to oblige.  

[runtzguy]

For all the Benning lovers, this article should convince you Benning needs to be fired.

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/toffoli-disappointed-canucks-didnt-offer-contract

Edited May 13, 2021 by runtzguy

[Silky mitts]

Benning has ruined this team , and will continue to do so. 

[Coconuts]

[lmm]

25 minutes ago, gurn said:

Then we move on to what has gone wrong and what has gone right since.

I have no problem with people being ticked at J.B. or the team or whatever, just like it to be fact based.

Same way I  pointed out to the poster that claimed we had just missed the play offs  5 out of 6 years for the first time ever; was wrong, as we have  acrtually done that twice.

i'm not a huge J.B. supporter, just want to see him get blamed for factual things and not made up hyperbole.

 

Fair enough

but I find the concept of his turning the team around hyperbolic

As I said, you are splitting hairs

it was not a true turn around but a blip on an otherwise continuous downward trend

THe Canucks were hot in March, but you cannot say they had a successful season

101 points in 2014-15 is the March of this teams 2012-2021 stretch

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, lmm said:

THe Canucks were hot in March, but you cannot say they had a successful season

Did I say they had a successful seaon? pretty sure I didn't.This is all about people saying J.B.. didn't turn around the team like he said he would.

They missed the playoffs before he said that, then they made the palyoffs in his first year. this is a fact.

Everything else is not relevant to the "Turn around quickly" quote.

 

MY issues with J.B. are his tendency to sign people for a bit too much for a bit too long; however I recognize that not many people are going to sign for a too short or too little to play on a rebuilding team.

Also as soon as a rebuild was started, I'd have started by drafting more defensemen, as it is kown they take longer to develop. While the players they drafted have for the most part done well, I'd still have begun with the back end.