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Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

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21 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Gaud isn't skilled enough to be in our top six, and you point out he's not defensively capable to play a bottom six checking role.  So where does he fit into our team?  Highmore actually fills a role.  

You do know that good teams dont just generate offense ftom their top 6, right?

 

Highmore does fill a role, just the same one as Motte, MacEwan, Hawryluk, Vesey, Boyd, etc. 

 

Competitive teams get some offensive production from their bottom 6. Or they utilize their bottom 6 in a shutdown role to allow their top 6 to be scoring lines.

 

The Canucks use Horvat's line for shutdown, essentially giving them one actual scoring line. The 3rd and 4th lines are there to what, dump and change and get hemmed in their zone defensively? 

 

Put a guy like Gaudette with an actually good two way center and a guy like Podkolzin and you have a line that can limit their defensive liability by actually playing with the puck and in the offensive zone.

 

Our bottom 6 is garbage. Adds next to nothing offensively and is not shutdown quality defensively. 

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10 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

When did Toffoli become a Petey/Hughes kind of player?

Compare him with his kind, Boeser, Loui, Virtanen etc. 

Podz is talked about as a bottom six player wich means both Podz and Toffoli fit. 

 

I never said Toffoli was a Petey/hughes kind of player. He was a “puzzle” piece player which turned out to be a measuring stick. With Toffoli in the lineup, we are nowhere near beating Vegas, who then lost to Dallas who got smoked by Tampa. We let him walk, we had to take a step back, address some issues and we have to further improve other areas. With or without Toffoli we dont win a cup. 
save the “toffoli” signing for when we become a contending team.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

No cap and ED TT is a no brainer.   Doubt anyone would even debate that.  No cap even LE is a no brainer because you can't have enough depth.  

 

Personally, i'd rather have our futures (Hogs, Podz, Lind and whomever) given our cap.    TT is a luxury at this point, and by the time our teams at the right age will be either retiring or doing a league minumum deal somewhere just to stay in the league likely.    

You can always trade players like Toffoli if they arent overpaid though. Having Toffoli doesnt mean you keep him forever. It just gives you an asset to move when the time comes while giving you a competitive top y in the meantime.

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5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You do know that good teams dont just generate offense ftom their top 6, right?

 

Highmore does fill a role, just the same one as Motte, MacEwan, Hawryluk, Vesey, Boyd, etc. 

 

Competitive teams get some offensive production from their bottom 6. Or they utilize their bottom 6 in a shutdown role to allow their top 6 to be scoring lines.

 

The Canucks use Horvat's line for shutdown, essentially giving them one actual scoring line. The 3rd and 4th lines are there to what, dump and change and get hemmed in their zone defensively? 

 

Put a guy like Gaudette with an actually good two way center and a guy like Podkolzin and you have a line that can limit their defensive liability by actually playing with the puck and in the offensive zone.

 

Our bottom 6 is garbage. Adds next to nothing offensively and is not shutdown quality defensively. 

I agree about the offence from the bottom six, but even said himself he didn't see himself in that role.  He wanted to play in the top six. 

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29 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Is it a huge step back? Not signing 1 guy. If thats a huge step back, we are royally f***ed.



Benning made a move to improve the top 6. When that move met head on with a contender it proved that the move was insufficient. Thus becoming a measuring stick. We werent close to beating VGK without a stellar performance by Demko for 3 straight games. We realized that and had to take a small step back to draft high and develop.

 

Vancouver was paper, Vegas was scissors, Dallas was rock, Tampa was dynamite.

 

We were 9 wins short of a stanley cup. Thats a lot. Bringing back Toffoli, only repeats the same results. Retool, draft another high pick, develop and compete.

The team has taken a huge step back this year. Its not because of one guy, its a combination of factors. Letting Toffoli go is just one contributing factor. Tanev and Markstrom coukd have been traded at the deadline if the plan was to let everyone leave anyway.

 

You are obsessed with beating Vegas or TB etc as the benchmark. Obviously Benning thought we could or hd wouldnt have wasted assets renting Toffoli. So thats his misjudgment really. 

 

Its not a small step back though. Its a huge one. And foreseeable to everyone but Benning and the owner. Just like it has been his entire tenure.

 

You underestimate just how much the focus of this team has been to squeak into the playoffs every year. Its not about competing, its about playoff revenue. And its why this team will have a very hard time actually becoming competitive enough to win a cup. Short term fixes are Benning's MO. And barely any of them work out.

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The team has taken a huge step back this year. Its not because of one guy, its a combination of factors. Letting Toffoli go is just one contributing factor. Tanev and Markstrom coukd have been traded at the deadline if the plan was to let everyone leave anyway.

 

You are obsessed with beating Vegas or TB etc as the benchmark. Obviously Benning thought we could or hd wouldnt have wasted assets renting Toffoli. So thats his misjudgment really. 

 

Its not a small step back though. Its a huge one. And foreseeable to everyone but Benning and the owner. Just like it has been his entire tenure.

 

You underestimate just how much the focus of this team has been to squeak into the playoffs every year. Its not about competing, its about playoff revenue. And its why this team will have a very hard time actually becoming competitive enough to win a cup. Short term fixes are Benning's MO. And barely any of them work out.

Why would we have traded tanev and markstrom when we had a good shot at making the playoffs?

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14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree about the offence from the bottom six, but even said himself he didn't see himself in that role.  He wanted to play in the top six. 

Every player wants to play in the top 6.

 

Look at the players that have been used in our top 6. Highmore, Lind, MacEwan, Vesey, Hawryluk, etc. Adding next to nothing.

 

Even if you dislike Gaudette long term, I don't think anyone could argue that he would not have been a better option this year on the wing in the top 6 than that crew. Put him there, let him get some confidence and raise his value, then trade him if you think he is not a long term fit. Worst case scenario with that approach? He doesn't produce there and you still trade him for a guy who was a regular healthy scratch. Literally no downside, especially in a season that was basically lost early in the year. 

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4 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Why would we have traded tanev and markstrom when we had a good shot at making the playoffs?

Exactly my point. Making the playoffs is the singular goal of this management group every year. Being competitive in the playoffs is a different beast as we saw last year with a vastly superior roster to this one.

 

If you have so many holes that its going to be hard for you to compete in the playoffs, rip the bandaid off for a year or two and accumulate assets that will help you be.

 

Half assed rebuilds combined with half baked year by year prop up ufa overpayments gets you exactly where the Canucks are.

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4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Exactly my point. Making the playoffs is the singular goal of this management group every year. Being competitive in the playoffs is a different beast as we saw last year with a vastly superior roster to this one.

 

If you have so many holes that its going to be hard for you to compete in the playoffs, rip the bandaid off for a year or two and accumulate assets that will help you be.

 

Half assed rebuilds combined with half baked year by year prop up ufa overpayments gets you exactly where the Canucks are.

Well having a core that averages 21 years old or so is kinda what you want. 

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10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The team has taken a huge step back this year. Its not because of one guy, its a combination of factors. Letting Toffoli go is just one contributing factor. Tanev and Markstrom coukd have been traded at the deadline if the plan was to let everyone leave anyway.

 

You are obsessed with beating Vegas or TB etc as the benchmark. Obviously Benning thought we could or hd wouldnt have wasted assets renting Toffoli. So thats his misjudgment really. 

 

Its not a small step back though. Its a huge one. And foreseeable to everyone but Benning and the owner. Just like it has been his entire tenure.

 

You underestimate just how much the focus of this team has been to squeak into the playoffs every year. Its not about competing, its about playoff revenue. And its why this team will have a very hard time actually becoming competitive enough to win a cup. Short term fixes are Benning's MO. And barely any of them work out.

Heres a dose of reality. We started the rebuild at the end of 2017-18 when the Twins retired. That was the signal to evacuate the building. 2018-19 was a down year as we would expect without our 2 top franchise leaders. 2019-20 we surprised everyone when we got into the playoffs on a technicality. We came up very short in terms of how lopsided the series was, despite us winning 3 games. We got handled heavily, Demko carried us.

is it really a huge step back in our 3rd year of a rebuild, or did we take a massive unexpected leap forward that made us appear like contenders as you seem to believe.... and then we came floating back down to reality.... still a work in progress.

 

and isnt beating the benchmark the goal?? If Tampa is the benchmark of what it takes to be a cup winner, shouldnt we strive to set the bench mark? If you want to continue coming up short for decades, just keep watching Toronto. In a couple years they are going to be an absolute disaster the way they have handed out 9+ mil contracts like its candy. Tavares contract is going to start crippling them, mark my words.

 

PS signing Toffoli IS the short term fix. Have you not picked up on that for the 100th time I have said that??

Short term pain for long term gain.

 

Let Toffoli walk DURING A REBUILD, draft high, develop and boom you have you younger and prime Toffoli or better. Extending our window to win for 7-8 years, rather than a couple mediocre years with Toffoli as he declines.

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7 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Well having a core that averages 21 years old or so is kinda what you want. 

Yes and a few more older players turned into assets to get value from like Markstrom, Tanev, etc would only have added to that core or given the team future picks/prosoects to acquire supporting players when the window actually opens.

 

Benning is trying to hedge his bets all the time, waffling between rebuilding and short term asset wasting to try to catch lightning in a bottle in the playoffs every year. Its unsustainable. Sooner or later, every good team has a well defined plan that they dont deviate from on a day to day basis.

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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Team from top to bottom has gone stale (again)

 

New GM

New Head Coach / coaching staff

 

Let a new GM come in and determine if he wants Green to take them to the next level. If not, he'll find his guy. We keep saying "he's good with the kids and the kids like him etc", but they're not kids anymore.

 

The young guys on the team have a couple or more years of NHL experience already. Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser have experienced playoffs, Hoglander and Rathbone play like veterans already. I suspect Podkolzin will do just fine with a tougher head coach.  Get a new Top Dog in there to start fixing this. Benning is incompetent.  

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11 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Exactly my point. Making the playoffs is the singular goal of this management group every year. Being competitive in the playoffs is a different beast as we saw last year with a vastly superior roster to this one.

 

If you have so many holes that its going to be hard for you to compete in the playoffs, rip the bandaid off for a year or two and accumulate assets that will help you be.

 

Half assed rebuilds combined with half baked year by year prop up ufa overpayments gets you exactly where the Canucks are.

Your vastly superior roster last year is drafting after us. Tanev, Marky and Levio = image.gif.2490e976a1ab124f671c44f5ac4e5328.gif

 

Oh.... and having overpaid for Marky and Tanev.... but those are Benning’s types of signings right??? Overpaying and short term fixes?? Treliving says hold my beer.

 

btw, Montreal only has 3 more wins than us.... sooooo like... they are just better at losing.

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4 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Heres a dose of reality. We started the rebuild at the end of 2017-18 when the Twins retired. That was the signal to evacuate the building. 2018-19 was a down year as we would expect without our 2 top franchise leaders. 2019-20 we surprised everyone when we got into the playoffs on a technicality. We came up very short in terms of how lopsided the series was, despite us winning 3 games. We got handled heavily, Demko carried us.

is it really a huge step back in our 3rd year of a rebuild, or did we take a massive unexpected leap forward that made us appear like contenders as you seem to believe.... and then we came floating back down to reality.... still a work in progress.

 

and isnt beating the benchmark the goal?? If Tampa is the benchmark of what it takes to be a cup winner, shouldnt we strive to set the bench mark? If you want to continue coming up short for decades, just keep watching Toronto. In a couple years they are going to be an absolute disaster the way they have handed out 9+ mil contracts like its candy. Tavares contract is going to start crippling them, mark my words.

 

PS signing Toffoli IS the short term fix. Have you not picked up on that for the 100th time I have said that??

Short term pain for long term gain.

 

Let Toffoli walk DURING A REBUILD, draft high, develop and boom you have you younger and prime Toffoli or better. Extending our window to win for 7-8 years, rather than a couple mediocre years with Toffoli as he declines.

We started a rebuild in 2017 you say?

 

Sinve that time, Sutter and Pearson re-signing, signing Roussel, Beagle, Myers trading for Miller and Schmidt, letting Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom leave for nothing, not being able to move out any of the bad contracts he signed, etc.

 

The rebuild through the draft is actually in spite of all the short term self inflicted sabotage to pretend to be a contender along the way.

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3 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Your vastly superior roster last year is drafting after us. Tanev, Marky and Levio = image.gif.2490e976a1ab124f671c44f5ac4e5328.gif

 

Oh.... and having overpaid for Marky and Tanev.... but those are Benning’s types of signings right??? Overpaying and short term fixes?? Treliving says hold my beer.

 

btw, Montreal only has 3 more wins than us.... sooooo like... they are just better at losing.

No, Benning reserves those signing for non top 6 or top 4 dmen actually. 

 

Anyone who supports Benning signing Roussel, Beagle, Myers, Pearson, etc to those contracts over the ones signed by Toffoli or Tanev is just not knowledgeable enough to talk hockey with.

 

Tanev was an overpayment for Calgary. But since Benning did not even offer him a contract are we sure he would not have signed for less dollars and term to stay? Are we sure Toffoli wouldnt have? Sounds like both really wanted to stay. A smart GM might have been able to get them at a bit of a discount. If they werent too busy trying to acquire one of the worst contracts in the NHL of course.

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9 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Your vastly superior roster last year is drafting after us. Tanev, Marky and Levio = image.gif.2490e976a1ab124f671c44f5ac4e5328.gif

 

Oh.... and having overpaid for Marky and Tanev.... but those are Benning’s types of signings right??? Overpaying and short term fixes?? Treliving says hold my beer.

 

btw, Montreal only has 3 more wins than us.... sooooo like... they are just better at losing.

Unlike you, the bar I expect the GM of my team to clear is not other terrible GM's or teams. Its good GM's and good teams.

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1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No, Benning reserves those signing for non top 6 or top 4 dmen actually. 

 

Anyone who supports Benning signing Roussel, Beagle, Myers, Pearson, etc to those contracts over the ones signed by Toffoli or Tanev is just not knowledgeable enough to talk hockey with.

 

Tanev was an overpayment for Calgary. But since Benning did not even offer him a contract are we sure he would not have signed for less dollars and term to stay? Are we sure Toffoli wouldnt have? Sounds like both really wanted to stay. A smart GM might have been able to get them at a bit of a discount. If they werent too busy trying to acquire one of the worst contracts in the NHL of course.

You are a tool, stick to basketball. Myers is worth every penny. I’ll prove to you how dumb and ignorant you really are to hockey. Roussel and Beagle were place holder signings. Pearson was a decent deal.

 

honestly man just stop talking about hockey, The grizzlies moved to memphis. Didnt they?

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Yes and a few more older players turned into assets to get value from like Markstrom, Tanev, etc would only have added to that core or given the team future picks/prosoects to acquire supporting players when the window actually opens.

 

Benning is trying to hedge his bets all the time, waffling between rebuilding and short term asset wasting to try to catch lightning in a bottle in the playoffs every year. Its unsustainable. Sooner or later, every good team has a well defined plan that they dont deviate from on a day to day basis.

You think aqualini woulda thought that woulda been the right thing to do or literally any GM in the same boat? He woulda fired JB on the spot if we traded marky and tanev at the deadline and the city woulda rioted lmao

Edited by Bertuzzipunch
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55 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

I never said Toffoli was a Petey/hughes kind of player. He was a “puzzle” piece player which turned out to be a measuring stick. With Toffoli in the lineup, we are nowhere near beating Vegas, who then lost to Dallas who got smoked by Tampa. We let him walk, we had to take a step back, address some issues and we have to further improve other areas. With or without Toffoli we dont win a cup. 
save the “toffoli” signing for when we become a contending team.

Why bother take Miller and Toffoli if you don't want to go further? Especially if the cost was minimal. 

With a healthy team Toffoli and Myers was enough to take the next step. We just needed them to gel properly. 

As you see now when Myers has taken a step forward.

If we had Stecher, Tanev, Toffoli we would have reached play off with no problem. 

 

Vegas won partly due to Greens tactics with Demko in goal and that Myers hadn't gelled at the time. 

Then, taking away all stability on right side defence is almost criminal.

Hughes would have much better numbers with Tanev. Just one difference between seasons.

Toffoli added to a healthy team would have meant our third line could be more powerful. 

Gaudette might have been an asset if so. 

The loss of our stability and gunpowder led to a domino effect. 

 

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