Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[wallstreetamigo]

Looking at his entire tenure, it has been an accidental rebuild at best. He has only been in a position to draft high most years because - if you look at almost every move he has made objectively - it shows a clear quick re-tool approach. That approach spectacularly failing every year is the only reason they have been able to rebuild the core.

 

So his drafting has been good (other than EP none of the players in the top 2 rounds were anything but largely BPA consendus players at where they were picked, and the Virtanen and Juolevi picks were clear losses) but it would have produced a lot more had they actually rebuilt purposefully rather than failing at retooling.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:10 AM, DSVII said:

haha sorry, i freaking love analogies and it just reminds me of this

(in seriousness, I do see some good things coming on the horizon (podz, hogz, rathbone), there was just a lot of unnecessary pain, unforced errors and wasted years of Bo/Boeser to get there)

 

 

best post on this thread by far. I remember when the simpsons were actually funny.

[Convincing John]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Looking at his entire tenure, it has been an accidental rebuild at best. He has only been in a position to draft high most years because - if you look at almost every move he has made objectively - it shows a clear quick re-tool approach. That approach spectacularly failing every year is the only reason they have been able to rebuild the core.

 

So his drafting has been good (other than EP none of the players in the top 2 rounds were anything but largely BPA consendus players at where they were picked, and the Virtanen and Juolevi picks were clear losses) but it would have produced a lot more had they actually rebuilt purposefully rather than failing at retooling.

GMJB would’ve been a great bargain bin, full rebuild, cap floor GM. He did not build to his strengths. 
 

Anyone who says Aquilini MADE JB spend to the cap seriously needs intense, professional, psychiatric intervention. The Aquilini‘s don’t even give their immigrant workers water, do you seriously believe they’d reject a proposal of a cap floor rebuild? After the Sedin’s? 
 

HahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahaha
 

that’s funny. 

[wallstreetamigo]

6 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

GMJB would’ve been a great bargain bin, full rebuild, cap floor GM. He did not build to his strengths. 
 

Anyone who says Aquilini MADE JB spend to the cap seriously needs intense, professional, psychiatric intervention. The Aquilini‘s don’t even give their immigrant workers water, do you seriously believe they’d reject a proposal of a cap floor rebuild? After the Sedin’s? 
 

HahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahaha
 

that’s funny. 

There is a lot more behind the scenes on the business side that plays into that though.

 

The Aquilini's would not want a true, long painful rebuild as it impacts the bottom line in lost playoff revenue and declining ticket sales. Vancouver fans may have been calling for one for several years but there is a real bottom line risk they would have bailed until the team was a contender again.

 

Aquilini has not been shy about spending to the cap because he sees it as an investment to be recouped if they make the playoffs. Given the cap spent and the lack of playoff rounds (with paying fans that is) as a result, you have to wonder how he feels about the decisions of this regime though.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

8 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

 

@IBatch? 

He's not lying, but if we were not going to keep tanev, stetcher was definitely not going to be the one who replaced him. 

 

 

 

Player	GP	TOI/GP	Corsi%	unblocked Corsi %	On-Ice GF %	iSAT/60	5v5 S/60	Team On-Ice S%	OZ%
Jordie Benn	3	13:11	30.5	30.1	--	3.03	0	0	30.7
Alexander Edler	7	16:52	46.8	45.9	71.4	14.74	6.1	8.9	32.4
Oscar Fantenberg	7	13:23	28.7	29.4	--	8.33	3.84	0	24.4
Quinn Hughes	7	15:15	39	35.4	30	8.42	1.12	8.5	55.1
Tyler Myers	4	16:28	34	34.6	--	3.64	2.73	0	40.6
Troy Stecher	7	16:06	42.7	42.3	83.3	11.18	3.73	9.4	29.4
Christopher Tanev	7	13:39	36.9	31.4	33.3	9.42	2.51	11.1	43

 

Player	S/C	Pos	GP	TOI/GP	Hits	Hits/60	BkS	BkS/60	GvA	GvA/60	TkA
Oscar Fantenberg	L	D	7	16:02	21	11.22	10	5.34	3	1.6	1
Alexander Edler	L	D	7	22:45	19	7.15	30	11.29	9	3.38	2
Tyler Myers	R	D	4	20:37	7	5.09	5	3.63	4	2.91	3
Troy Stecher	R	D	7	17:11	7	3.49	14	6.98	6	2.99	0
Christopher Tanev	R	D	7	18:42	7	3.2	24	10.99	7	3.2	5
Jordie Benn	L	D	3	15:27	4	5.17	6	7.76	1	1.29	0
Quinn Hughes	L	D	7	21:05	1	0.4	14	5.69	17	6.9	6

 

Player	GP	POINTS	PP TOI/GP	On-Ice PP GF	On-Ice SH GA	SH TOI/GP	On-Ice SH GF	On-Ice PP GA	EV TOI/GP	On-Ice EV GF	On-Ice EV GA	On-Ice EV GD	On-Ice EV GF%
Troy Stecher	7	0	0:21	0	0	0:42	0	0	16:09	5	1	4	83.3
Alexander Edler	7	3	1:38	0	0	2:36	0	4	18:31	7	3	4	70
Christopher Tanev	7	1	0:09	0	0	3:45	0	4	14:48	6	6	0	50
Jordie Benn	3	0	0:13	0	0	2:10	0	2	13:03	0	1	-1	0
Tyler Myers	4	0	1:40	0	0	1:41	0	0	17:16	0	3	-3	0
Oscar Fantenberg	7	0	0:09	0	0	2:22	0	0	13:31	0	4	-4	0
Quinn Hughes	7	6	4:30	3	0	0:00	0	0	16:36	4	9	-5	30.8

[Convincing John]

23 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

There is a lot more behind the scenes on the business side that plays into that though.

 

The Aquilini's would not want a true, long painful rebuild as it impacts the bottom line in lost playoff revenue and declining ticket sales. Vancouver fans may have been calling for one for several years but there is a real bottom line risk they would have bailed until the team was a contender again.

 

Aquilini has not been shy about spending to the cap because he sees it as an investment to be recouped if they make the playoffs. Given the cap spent and the lack of playoff rounds (with paying fans that is) as a result, you have to wonder how he feels about the decisions of this regime though.

Nope, sorry. He is too cheap to resign Ian Clark or hire a high dollar coach with NHL experience. Jim’s proposal was a magic show that fooled ownership. This was the disconnect with Linden. Now FA is looking at his ticket revenue $0 and the money he is spending (the Max) and sobbing. We lost Bracket, we are losing Clark and now someone is going to pay for FA losing all this money. I bet he starts with the one who was in charge of spending it. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

45 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

GMJB would’ve been a great bargain bin, full rebuild, cap floor GM. He did not build to his strengths. 
 

Anyone who says Aquilini MADE JB spend to the cap seriously needs intense, professional, psychiatric intervention. The Aquilini‘s don’t even give their immigrant workers water, do you seriously believe they’d reject a proposal of a cap floor rebuild? After the Sedin’s? 
 

HahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahahaHahahahaha
 

that’s funny. 

aquilini is also a smart man. he knows that making the playoffs=cash!!!!

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Nope, sorry. He is too cheap to resign Ian Clark or hire a high dollar coach with NHL experience. Jim’s proposal was a magic show that fooled ownership. This was the disconnect with Linden. Now FA is looking at his ticket revenue $0 and the money he is spending (the Max) and sobbing. We lost Bracket, we are losing Clark and now someone is going to pay for FA losing all this money. I bet he starts with the one who was in charge of spending it. 

He has definitely been cheaping out on the front office. But he has been a cap max spender for a long time now. 

 

I think Benning's plan was terrible but I feel Aquilini was right on board with it.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

4 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Nope, sorry. He is too cheap to resign Ian Clark or hire a high dollar coach with NHL experience. Jim’s proposal was a magic show that fooled ownership. This was the disconnect with Linden. Now FA is looking at his ticket revenue $0 and the money he is spending (the Max) and sobbing. We lost Bracket, we are losing Clark and now someone is going to pay for FA losing all this money. I bet he starts with the one who was in charge of spending it. 

listen, fooled is a strong word. if you don't think he can give low budgets for management and high budgets for players, thats kinda weird.

 

maybe Aquilini has  experts that told him that dollar for dollar, players have the most impact on a team. which is probably true.

 

i look at benning as a yes man, and his goal was to return the team to  a playoff team, not a cup winning team. because money

[wallstreetamigo]

Aquilini has shown he is willing to spend on the front office IF the playoffs are a yearly thing. Gillis time here showed that.

 

He has always been willing to spend on players, right or wrong.

 

It might be getting to the point where Aquilini is wondering if he needs a new GM to get this team back to plyoff quality.

[HockeyHarry]

4 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

aquilini is also a smart man. he knows that making the playoffs=cash!!!!

I agree Aqua-man knows playoffs=cash

but i disagree Aquilini is a smart man.

Hes a follower of Chaos and pushing stupid quick fit bandaids. That rob this team of rebuilding from day 1. 

example - Loui E long term contract for the Twins to play with at the end of their careers. Should of started the rebuild not the stupid retool that waisted time and draft picks and feed cap problems with overpriced bandaid 4th liners.

[knucklehead91]

56 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

There is a lot more behind the scenes on the business side that plays into that though.

 

The Aquilini's would not want a true, long painful rebuild as it impacts the bottom line in lost playoff revenue and declining ticket sales. Vancouver fans may have been calling for one for several years but there is a real bottom line risk they would have bailed until the team was a contender again.

 

Aquilini has not been shy about spending to the cap because he sees it as an investment to be recouped if they make the playoffs. Given the cap spent and the lack of playoff rounds (with paying fans that is) as a result, you have to wonder how he feels about the decisions of this regime though.

So stop blaming Benning. 

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, knucklehead91 said:

So stop blaming Benning. 

 

 

The only reason Benning got hired in the first place is because his plan as pitched was to re-tool, not rebuild. Music to Aquilini's ears.

 

No owner ever wants a tear down rebuild. What they want and what they need are two different things though. A good GM can convince an owner a rebuild is in their best interests if they have a solid plan and the skills to execute on it. 

 

Unfortunately, Benning has never been that guy. He has a flawed view on how to build a team combined with terrible pro scouting decisions.

 

Aquilini gave him all the cap he needed and he still pissed it away. He has to take a lot of the blame here.

[Convincing John]

22 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He has definitely been cheaping out on the front office. But he has been a cap max spender for a long time now. 

 

I think Benning's plan was terrible but I feel Aquilini was right on board with it.

Of course he was on board with it. Listen, my point is you don’t become one of the richest dudes in Canada by wasting money. He is a business man first. If Jim is his portfolio manager, he isn’t getting return on investment. His good stocks aren’t outperforming his bad ones and for that simple reason, he will cash in and look to give someone else that money to manage. 
 

It’s not a hidden agenda. Jim said, I want to rebuild while spending to the cap and staying competitive. Linden said full rebuild. FA thought he could take a shortcut with Jim’s plan so he went with that and here we are. Handcuffed to the cap, at the bottom of the league and no EP’s or QH’s in the stable waiting to bail them out. We have a core that’s ready to build around but we can’t cause we spent that money before we had the core. This is honestly the worst run canucks team in +20 years. 

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Of course he was on board with it. Listen, my point is you don’t become one of the richest dudes in Canada by wasting money. He is a business man first. If Jim is his portfolio manager, he isn’t getting return on investment. His good stocks aren’t outperforming his bad ones and for that simple reason, he will cash in and look to give someone else that money to manage. 
 

It’s not a hidden agenda. Jim said, I want to rebuild while spending to the cap and staying competitive. Linden said full rebuild. FA thought he could take a shortcut with Jim’s plan so he went with that and here we are. Handcuffed to the cap, at the bottom of the league and no EP’s or QH’s in the stable waiting to bail them out. We have a core that’s ready to build around but we can’t cause we spent that money before we had the core. This is honestly the worst run canucks team in +20 years. 

I dont disagree with a lot of this.

[knucklehead91]

44 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

 

The only reason Benning got hired in the first place is because his plan as pitched was to re-tool, not rebuild. Music to Aquilini's ears.

 

No owner ever wants a tear down rebuild. What they want and what they need are two different things though. A good GM can convince an owner a rebuild is in their best interests if they have a solid plan and the skills to execute on it. 

 

Unfortunately, Benning has never been that guy. He has a flawed view on how to build a team combined with terrible pro scouting decisions.

 

Aquilini gave him all the cap he needed and he still pissed it away. He has to take a lot of the blame here.

El oh el. 
You just said.... its an ownership issue and then you blame the GM.

If Aquaman doesnt want a rebuild, he’s the one calling the shots.

Benning was hired, because he was one of the up and coming GMs that was widely regarded in the NHL.

Aqua doesnt want a rebuild, so he gives him all the cap space to slap a bunch of bandaids. Its not the same as giving a GM control to hire who he wants, bring in the personell he wants or do things the way he envisions. When trying to hailmary a cup for the Sedins came to an end, it was a loud and clear message to do a complete rebuild. 
 

If you are saying that the owner does NOT want a rip and tear rebuild, he is not giving the GM choices. He is forcing him the GM to make counterproductive choices. That is an owner run system and the GM is just a puppet. It doesnt sound like its Bennings view, its an ownership demand

Edited May 16, 2021 by knucklehead91

[knucklehead91]

10 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Of course he was on board with it. Listen, my point is you don’t become one of the richest dudes in Canada by wasting money. He is a business man first. If Jim is his portfolio manager, he isn’t getting return on investment. His good stocks aren’t outperforming his bad ones and for that simple reason, he will cash in and look to give someone else that money to manage. 
 

It’s not a hidden agenda. Jim said, I want to rebuild while spending to the cap and staying competitive. Linden said full rebuild. FA thought he could take a shortcut with Jim’s plan so he went with that and here we are. Handcuffed to the cap, at the bottom of the league and no EP’s or QH’s in the stable waiting to bail them out. We have a core that’s ready to build around but we can’t cause we spent that money before we had the core. This is honestly the worst run canucks team in +20 years. 

Or you know, he could rebuild in a losing atmosphere and continue to end up like Buffalo or Edmonton up until they snagged McDavid.

Edmonton drafted consistently high, but remained in a losing atmosphere which continued to derail prospect development, being tossed into a tire fire year after year. They lost Hall, Eberle and destroyed Yakupov, held onto Drasaitl and won the McDavid sweepstakes. Problem is it took them so bloody long that their window to win along with Toronto’s is shortened because they are paying 1/4-1/3 of the cap on 2 players and they still need to ink another 20 players. When they fail to win and McDavid and Drasaitl need re-up, or Matthews for Toronto need new ink, they are going to either keep that star and lose a line, or lose a star and have nothing.

 

As good as McDavid/Drasaitl and Matthews/Marner are, look at their supporting cast compared to Colorado, Vegas, Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston, Florida, Carolina, Tampa Bay. 
 

Toronto and Edmonton have 2 great players and the majority of teams in the playoffs have great teams.

 

 

This is also not like any season the league has ever seen. No preparation, terrible scheduling in the midst of a pandemic. A team was put on pause for a month in the middle of a season, resumed and play 19 games in 30 days. Oh... and regulation is still going, while playoffs are starting. The first round will be almost halfway done for some teams by the time Van and Calgary finish fighting for tee off time.

 

This is not a fair season to judge success or failure. Give any other team our schedule and obstacles and see if the results are the same or better. I’d put $1,000,000,000,000,000 on every team in the league finishing lower than where they currently stand if they had our schedule to start and finish and go through a month of no hockey while everyone else is in hockey shape

 

Just have patience and see what has been accomplished since the Sedins retired and the rebuild began, and the things to come with the new core.  We are better than the standings show this year. This is not a normal year and we 10000% had the toughest season out of every single team in the league.

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

29 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

El oh el. 
You just said.... its an ownership issue and then you blame the GM.

If Aquaman doesnt want a rebuild, he’s the one calling the shots.

Benning was hired, because he was one of the up and coming GMs that was widely regarded in the NHL.

Aqua doesnt want a rebuild, so he gives him all the cap space to slap a bunch of bandaids. Its not the same as giving a GM control to hire who he wants, bring in the personell he wants or do things the way he envisions. When trying to hailmary a cup for the Sedins came to an end, it was a loud and clear message to do a complete rebuild. 
 

If you are saying that the owner does NOT want a rip and tear rebuild, he is not giving the GM choices. He is forcing him the GM to make counterproductive choices. That is an owner run system and the GM is just a puppet. It doesnt sound like its Bennings view, its an ownership demand

If that’s the case then JB should have balls and walk away if he’s not allowed to do his job and is just ruining his reputation. Linden did. Benning was at least on board with the decisions that FA wanted if he didn’t want them himself. FA sucks and so does JB. It doesn’t have to be one or the other, believe it or not it can be both. But the issues with this organization definitely start with ownership, it just doesn’t stop there 

[wallstreetamigo]

56 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

El oh el. 
You just said.... its an ownership issue and then you blame the GM.

If Aquaman doesnt want a rebuild, he’s the one calling the shots.

Benning was hired, because he was one of the up and coming GMs that was widely regarded in the NHL.

Aqua doesnt want a rebuild, so he gives him all the cap space to slap a bunch of bandaids. Its not the same as giving a GM control to hire who he wants, bring in the personell he wants or do things the way he envisions. When trying to hailmary a cup for the Sedins came to an end, it was a loud and clear message to do a complete rebuild. 
 

If you are saying that the owner does NOT want a rip and tear rebuild, he is not giving the GM choices. He is forcing him the GM to make counterproductive choices. That is an owner run system and the GM is just a puppet. It doesnt sound like its Bennings view, its an ownership demand

I disagree in several areas. I dont think you understand that the owner always has the final say.

 

Once the original Sedin era re-tool showed itself to be a complete flop, Aquilini was basically given two visions for what needed to happen. Linden was advocating for a full rebuild, which did make sense all things considered. Benning was pitching the continued re-tool disguised as a rebuild.

 

Aquilini fired Linden (or forced him to resign by giving his authority to Benning, same difference) and chose Benning's path, which has turned out to be the wrong path since that time.

 

I dont blame Aquilini to decide what he thought would get him playoff money faster.

 

Benning undercutting Linden was the issue. Had Linden and Benning both agreed a rebuild was necessary, I have no doubt Aquilini would have reluctantly accepted it if he saw no other way.

 

Benning is to blame for his own faulty plan. He "won" with Aquilini but you have to wonder how Aquilini feels about the years of failure to get back to money making playoffs. Sure, they made it last year but with no fans and no big revenue. 

 

The "rebuild" was accidental and drafting a good core only happened because Benning's continual go for it signings and trades spectacularly failed. 

[knucklehead91]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I disagree in several areas. I dont think you understand that the owner always has the final say.

 

Once the original Sedin era re-tool showed itself to be a complete flop, Aquilini was basically given two visions for what needed to happen. Linden was advocating for a full rebuild, which did make sense all things considered. Benning was pitching the continued re-tool disguised as a rebuild.

 

Aquilini fired Linden (or forced him to resign by giving his authority to Benning, same difference) and chose Benning's path, which has turned out to be the wrong path since that time.

 

I dont blame Aquilini to decide what he thought would get him playoff money faster.

 

Benning undercutting Linden was the issue. Had Linden and Benning both agreed a rebuild was necessary, I have no doubt Aquilini would have reluctantly accepted it if he saw no other way.

 

Benning is to blame for his own faulty plan. He "won" with Aquilini but you have to wonder how Aquilini feels about the years of failure to get back to money making playoffs. Sure, they made it last year but with no fans and no big revenue. 

 

The "rebuild" was accidental and drafting a good core only happened because Benning's continual go for it signings and trades spectacularly failed.