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what did we gain by not re-signing any of Markstrom/Tanev/Toffoli?

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grouse747
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On 7/11/2021 at 3:34 PM, snipes2539 said:

I find it interesting that you're combining the evaluation with the Pearson signing.

 

Personally I don't see those two as related at all.  Pearson was re-signed to give Horvat some stability, and I really think he's a good fit there with him and when Petey is back healthy and Hoglander (hopefully) continuing his trajectory, and Podkolzin coming this year, I think Pearson will be a solid fit there. 

 

To me, the Tofoli miss is made worse only by JB's bet on Virtanen.  He dragged his feet on Tofoli because he was trying to deal with Jake, and that's the biggest gaff imo.  His unwillingness to walk away from Virtanen is what led to the Toffoli situation imo.

Virtanen walked away from Virtanen.

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11 hours ago, Me_ said:

Virtanen walked away from Virtanen.

Nah. Management just wasn't able to identify a lost cause.

 

Some would tell you he was a lost cause before he was even drafted.

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20 hours ago, Primal Optimist said:

I don't really follow all the Tanev love. He is not a star dman, he isn't even an allstar dman in any year of his career, he is a plug n play dman of average ability. I do not miss him. Markstrom leaving was not avoidable due to the covid cap situation. Toffoli i do miss and considering he is only 4.25m with three years left, I feel like he would have stayed for the same deal: 4 x 4.25: the question is, which i don't recall, could the Canucks have possibly made that deal at the time? I am not sure. 

Did you watch us attempt to play defense last year?

 

And you don't miss our best pure defender?

 

Who on this team/in the pipleline remains that you can count on to consistently play against top forwards? Are these players easily attainable through free-agency/trade?

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41 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Did you watch us attempt to play defense last year?

 

And you don't miss our best pure defender?

 

Who on this team/in the pipleline remains that you can count on to consistently play against top forwards? Are these players easily attainable through free-agency/trade?

Tanev did play like he could have a cigarette in his mouth…

 

But the injuries made him less reliable than he should’ve been. 
 

Loved the dude as a Canuck.

 

Watch for Hughes, Juolevi and Rathbone take massive steps this upcoming season.

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1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

Did you watch us attempt to play defense last year?

 

And you don't miss our best pure defender?

 

Who on this team/in the pipleline remains that you can count on to consistently play against top forwards? Are these players easily attainable through free-agency/trade?

well you ahve a point, Calgary did win, how many playoff series was it after acquiring Tanev? hrm..i lost count

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47 minutes ago, Primal Optimist said:

well you ahve a point, Calgary did win, how many playoff series was it after acquiring Tanev? hrm..i lost count

How many playoff series did McDavid win this year?

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Markstrom and Tanev were great but if the Canucks had signed them to the contracts they received, then they would be in an even worse spot right now (IMHO).  To the extent that this disrupted the locker room, management could have probably done a better job of communicating with the rest of the team, but key players do leave and whether those guys were part of the core moving forward was an open question.

 

As with many others, the decision not to bring back Toffoli is the only one where I think things went off, not only in the manner in which it seems to have happened, but just not having him in the line-up.  While I don't think Toffoli is necessarily a first line forward on every team, he is a solid top-6 forward and is an excellent complimentary piece to top lines. Considering also that Toffoli seemed to get along well with the core players, it just seemed odd that the team did not at least make more of an effort to try to keep him.  If Toffoli had been asking for $6M per year then sure, maybe the decision to let him walk would have been the right one, but did they even have that conversation?

 

Is Toffoli worth the contract he ultimately signed?  Yes.  Could the Canucks have signed him to that contract?  Probably, though it would have affected the Canucks' ability to rere-sign Virtanen which ultimately was based on a miscalculation on their part about Virtanen's ability to, at the very least, replicate his production from 2019-2020. 

 

The Canucks would still need a 3rd line center this offseason even if they re-signed Toffoli, but they wouldn't be worrying about the top-6 at all and guys like Hoglander and Podkolzin could solidly be expected to contribute in the bottom 6 which would help make the bottom 6 far better.  In this way, the only thing I think one could say about not re-signing Toffoli is that they "saved" some cap space, but that may not have been worth it.

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3 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Did you watch us attempt to play defense last year?

 

And you don't miss our best pure defender?

 

Who on this team/in the pipleline remains that you can count on to consistently play against top forwards? Are these players easily attainable through free-agency/trade?

Hamonic and Woo.

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49 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

How many playoff series did McDavid win this year?

I think we are in the weeds now, at least I was referring to Tanev's actual clubs success with him. lol.

 

Anywho, i don't miss him. That is all i said. It is subjective to the extreme, so I am not wrong. 

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There's definitely a fair point regarding the business side and the injury aspect of Tanev's contract, but I think it's ridiculous to watch Hughes get absolutely murdered defensively for an entire season and conclude that you don't miss Tanev.

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35 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Hamonic and Woo.

Hamonic is more broken than Tanev and not as good.

 

Woo hasn't even played an NHL game and you have him slated to defend effectively against the Kucherovs and McDavids of the world already?

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7 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Hamonic is more broken than Tanev and not as good.

 

Woo hasn't even played an NHL game and you have him slated to defend effectively against the Kucherovs and McDavids of the world already?

You asked who was in the pipeline who could hopefully fill that role.  I answered.

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8 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Hamonic is more broken than Tanev and not as good.

 

Woo hasn't even played an NHL game and you have him slated to defend effectively against the Kucherovs and McDavids of the world already?

Kuch has two Cups.  McDavid hasn’t even won two playoff rounds.  Woo will put McDavid down. 

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23 hours ago, King Heffy said:

You asked who was in the pipeline who could hopefully fill that role.  I answered.

You have a B prospect slated to play a top-pair type role.

 

Which is like saying you have Lind slated to be PPG player.

 

Not to mention by the time Woo develops into that role, if he ever does, it'll probably be around when Tanev's current contract expires.

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1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

As per Seravalli, Flames to expose Giordano in expansion.

 

Tanev took his protection spot.

 

lols

Kind of a no-brainer for the Flames.  Tanev is 6yrs younger and makes about 2m less than Giordano, who no longer has the impact on the team he once had.  Tanev is definitely the guy to keep,

 

Seattle will probably pick up Kylington, which might end up backfiring on the Flames.

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On 7/14/2021 at 8:53 AM, kanucks25 said:

Did you watch us attempt to play defense last year?

 

And you don't miss our best pure defender?

 

Who on this team/in the pipleline remains that you can count on to consistently play against top forwards? Are these players easily attainable through free-agency/trade?

Unfortunately it wasn't just last year. The defense has been terrible for several years and last year was an attempt to get better.

Hopefully this attempt continues.

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