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what did we gain by not re-signing any of Markstrom/Tanev/Toffoli?

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10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

A 1st round equivalent prospect to get rid of Eriksson would certainly be better for the future than trading it for a handful of games from Toffoli only to let him walk.

TT filled his role. Don't forget Boeser's injury, if he wasn't going to be in full health Benning needed to make a top 6 move. It got us into the playoffs as well btw. 

 

why isn't that part of your complaint? 

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Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Eriksson was used in a very specific way in Boston that played to his strengths and minimized the impact of his weaknesses. He was also surrounded by a significantly better team. The signing was understandable to some degree but again not the term. 

You haven't shown me the roster of how you keep Toffoli and Tanev yet

 

cause it can't be done

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5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

If the Canucks were actually rebuilding they would not have signed Beagle, Myers, Roussel, etc to big money and term relative to actual value. 

According to you. This is #properrebuild  stuff again. Just because you personally don't like how they rebuilt, doesn't make it wrong or you right.

 

Quote

 

The Canucks lost Toffoli, Tanev, Stecher, and Markstrom this past offseason alone. If you think Eriksson (and other too big untradable contracts) being on the roster didnt have a significant hand in any of that you are crazy.

The ED cost us Markstrom. Planning past this season 'cost' us Tanev (and gained us Schmidt). I take Hamonic over Stecher any day. Covid cost us Toffoli.

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5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

If the Canucks were actually rebuilding they would not have signed Beagle, Myers, Roussel, etc to big money and term relative to actual value. 

 

The Canucks lost Toffoli, Tanev, Stecher, and Markstrom this past offseason alone. If you think Eriksson (and other too big untradable contracts) being on the roster didnt have a significant hand in any of that you are crazy.

your version of rebuilding you mean. 

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4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

If the Canucks were actually rebuilding they would not have signed Beagle, Myers, Roussel, etc to big money and term relative to actual value. 

 

The Canucks lost Toffoli, Tanev, Stecher, and Markstrom this past offseason alone. If you think Eriksson (and other too big untradable contracts) being on the roster didnt have a significant hand in any of that you are crazy.

I would call it a rebuild still considering few past players are here and new faces where brought in that's the definition of a rebuild.

Myers plays a long time role for this team. Roussel was suppose to bring some grit. Beagle was that defensive Centre and PK specialist. Take pressure off of Horvat  prior to Beagle Horvat was taking the majority of the defensive zone faceoffs 

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Just now, Arrow 1983 said:

I would call it a rebuild still considering few past players are here and new faces where brought in that's the definition of a rebuild.

Myers plays a long time role for this team. Roussel was suppose to bring some grit. Beagle was that defensive Centre and PK specialist. Take pressure off of Horvat  prior to Beagle Horvat was taking the majority of the defensive zone faceoffs 

Again, I dont argue with the reasoning to bring them in. I argue that those same qualities could have been filled much cheaper and shorter term.

 

Myers is not a 6x6 guy in any universe. Good player but not worth that imo.

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1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Toffoli is a better player than anyone who has been tasked with replacing him this year so no not really.

Still rebuilding as I have said 

 

Hoglander at the beginning of this season and PodKolzin later in the season

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3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Myers is not a 6x6 guy in any universe. Good player but not worth that imo.

Good thing we got him for a $6x5 deal then which is in the ball park of fair market value for a UFA aged, top 4, RHD with size, skating and complimentary offense.

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3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Again, I dont argue with the reasoning to bring them in. I argue that those same qualities could have been filled much cheaper and shorter term.

 

Myers is not a 6x6 guy in any universe. Good player but not worth that imo.

All these players play a roll

Rebuild doesn't mean bring in all young guys ask Edm about that

 

Van has had much more playoff success then Tor. So rebuilds don't follow the same path

 

Rebuilding a NHL team is not a science 

 

It is done through good drafting and a lot of luck Pettersson and Hughes 

 

time and patience  Demko

 

Trust Horvat

 

Experience, All those vets you don't like 

 

Hardship  the Fans 

 

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27 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Good thing we got him for a $6x5 deal then which is in the ball park of fair market value for a UFA aged, top 4, RHD with size, skating and complimentary offense.

He isnt a 6x5 guy either. As a ufa sure he will get crazy money but honestly not worth it at all.

 

A typo for one year doesnt make me wrong btw.

 

UFA players are almost never worth what gms pay them.

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22 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

All these players play a roll

Rebuild doesn't mean bring in all young guys ask Edm about that

 

Van has had much more playoff success then Tor. So rebuilds don't follow the same path

 

Rebuilding a NHL team is not a science 

 

It is done through good drafting and a lot of luck Pettersson and Hughes 

 

time and patience  Demko

 

Trust Horvat

 

Experience, All those vets you don't like 

 

Hardship  the Fans 

 

Again, not sure what you dont understand here. I dont dislike the players. I just think those roles could have been filled for less dollars and way less term.

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1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He isnt a 6x5 guy either. As a ufa sure he will get crazy money but honestly not worth it at all.

 

A typo for one year doesnt make me wrong btw.

 

UFA players are almost never worth what gms pay them.

Given every teams across the league, continue to pay them every year, I'm not sure you can claim that. They get paid what the market deems they are 'worth'.

 

Maybe if he was a home grown talent we drafted and developed, you might get Myers at a 'hometown discount' around +/- $5.5m. We didn't. I'm not going to sweat about that $500k.

 

And the typo makes you a bit more wrong ;) 

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What has happened is now in the past. I feel management should be replaced as well as the coaching staff. Asset management has been terrible since day 1 and would look a lot worse if Markstrom was picked off waivers the year he played in Utica. Free agency has been terrible since day 1 as well but RFA signings have been good. Trades are both bad and good with a lot of risk/luck being involved like shooting darts at a board with a blindfold. Drafting has been great but nobody is saying let’s replace the amateur scouting staff, just the pro one. 
We have gained the knowledge that our management is not nearly good enough or ready to take the team to the next step of the rebuild by these players walking away as lost assets. By signing big money to our bottom 6 who aren’t even close to living up to their contracts has ultimately cost us these assets and that is unacceptable, for any franchise. Moving on from Marky and replacing his money with Schmidt because of Demko’s emergence should have been the only move made by management while retaining the rest. Attaching a first to a Loui contract to shed $6 million in cap and not signing Holtby to retain Tanev/Toffoli/Stetcher would have been asset management 101 because the value of all three far exceeds a first round pick and a player who is a distraction due to his cap hit and lack of productivity. 

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We learned that know matter how bad he does or how stupid his excuses are there are some here that will continue to worship the  bronze statue of him that have in their living room.

capped out and crappy for 7 years is long enough. 
 



 

 

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Given every teams across the league, continue to pay them every year, I'm not sure you can claim that. They get paid what the market deems they are 'worth'.

 

Maybe if he was a home grown talent we drafted and developed, you might get Myers at a 'hometown discount' around +/- $5.5m. We didn't. I'm not going to sweat about that $500k.

 

And the typo makes you a bit more wrong ;) 

Competitive market value on july 1 and actual value are rarely the same thing unfortunately.

 

Would you agree that GM's have the choice not to get caught up in bidding wars? Benning too often has myopically focused on a player rather than looking for options that might fill that same need. There are lots of examples of him overpaying for guys no one else was even offering on though. 

 

Old school qualities just are not worth the premium they used to be. GM's that have caught onto that are further ahead.

 

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Tanev: Has been injury prone. Not going to get any better. Doesn't put up a lot of offense. I can see why we didn't want to sign him long term - though he has been a big loss, as expected.

Markstrom: Similar to Tanev. Starting to get bitten by the injury bug. Isn't going to get better and will likely start a decline soon. I get this one too. Benning banked on Demko, and it looks like he made the right choice. We were never going to keep both anyway.
Stecher: I really do like Stecher, but he's always going to be limited in his physical ability to match his rather limited skillset. Bless his heart, but I was ok with this one too.

TT: This guy I really did want to keep. Most of us wanted Benning to lose some salary even before Covid was a thing, and he Benning refused to pay the price to do so. It makes the price paid for him seem pretty steep - even if the move almost certainly did allow the team to play meaningful playoff hockey last season.

Benning couldn't have known the bad salaries would go from hard to impossible to move - I just wish he did what he needed to do sooner... even IF Covid never messed everything up. I think too many key guys were moved out (regardless of whether it was necessary) and the team struggled to find it's identity as a result. 

And now we're (not quite?) out of the playoffs. But I believe with expiring salary in the next couple of seasons, once you melt that fat off, we really do have a good looking team... and should have a bit of salary available to add another impact player or two.

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54 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Competitive market value on july 1 and actual value are rarely the same thing unfortunately.

I get what you're saying but we're talking about UFA's here. It is what it is. This isn't a Benning centric argument. UFA's are worth what the market bares.

 

54 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Would you agree that GM's have the choice not to get caught up in bidding wars?

Not really. You want a player and you have other teams competing for them. It's literally the name of the game. You have a walk away price sure, but bidding wars is literally what the entire system is based on lol

 

54 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Benning too often has myopically focused on a player rather than looking for options that might fill that same need. There are lots of examples of him overpaying for guys no one else was even offering on though. 

Ok... This is veering way in to narrative territory. Sorry, do you have some evidence of this? As far as I recall hearing, most of our major UFA signings had multiple teams interested and we had to outbid then to get his here during a rebuild.

 

54 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Old school qualities just are not worth the premium they used to be. GM's that have caught onto that are further ahead.

 

Lol... What does that even mean? You mean super well run all-analytic teams like the stellar Arizona Coyotes? :lol:

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