Time To Jettison Aging Vets?

[IBatch]

53 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Ditto, drafting the young core alone  gives him a lot of leeway for me (rather trading for them).   I was just mainly venting a small level of frustration from our first time GM; moving forward, I still hope he gets a chance to win with his core and hopefully, Aquaman can hire a team president (first) that can work with JB.   

Think we have a lot in common.  I spend a lot of time defending JB,  doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes because for sure he has, or that i think he's a god because for sure he isn't.   After all the GMs i've seen and gone, Nonis comes to mind but in a different view.   Nonis made arguably the most pivotal move in francise history in trading Bert for Luongo.  No run without him, no presidents trophies either.    He's also had one of the best drafts in history and one of the worst in history.    The vibe is there because i can see JB losing his job if we miss next season, and then someone new coming in like some super hero making a few supportive moves and us contending.    For me at least, don't see the point in that - and get that the sample size is a lot different, but do think JB has done enough to see it all through. 

[DSVII]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Edler's money is one of the biggest factors this off season.   I'd love to see the team sign him to a 3.5 x 3 deal but don't know if he'd accept that.   There are other options.   If for example, and i know this is a remote one,  Hamilton was interested in coming here (again know this is very remote), would much rather spend the money on him and then an LE buyout makes some sense.   Aside from that ... well i certainly hope we don't have to buyout LE just to fit in what we already have, but it could be the case.   I know JB said he wants to keep Pearson, but he also said that about Markstrom,  Tanev and even hinted TT so don't read too much into that.   Would be surprised if he did.

 

Edit:  Your numbers are a lot more reasonable then the ones i've seen floating around.   I see Demko getting a inflation/covid deal like Markstrom got before his current one, 3.75 x 3 at most 4.   EP and QHs both between 6 and 6.5 on long bridges.   So pretty darn close, nice to see a level head when it comes to these things.  

Haha well funny how quick things change. Benning opted for the long term and not the bridge with Demko. So looks like bye bye Loui.

Edited March 31, 2021 by DSVII

[Nuxfanabroad]

31 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Think we have a lot in common.  I spend a lot of time defending JB,  doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes because for sure he has, or that i think he's a god because for sure he isn't.   After all the GMs i've seen and gone, Nonis comes to mind but in a different view.   Nonis made arguably the most pivotal move in francise history in trading Bert for Luongo.  No run without him, no presidents trophies either.    He's also had one of the best drafts in history and one of the worst in history.    The vibe is there because i can see JB losing his job if we miss next season, and then someone new coming in like some super hero making a few supportive moves and us contending.    For me at least, don't see the point in that - and get that the sample size is a lot different, but do think JB has done enough to see it all through. 

Most pivotal? Of all the freeken people..I think it was MIKE KEENAN's move, when he dealt Linden.

 

It was hard to stomach at the time, but man that set off some nice dominoes for the franchise-future!

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I understand why Benning signed Holtby but I myself was never was excited about the  Holtby signing and had confidence in Demko's ability and was actually upset when Lundqvist signed a one-year, $1.5 million contract compared to what we signed Holtby or could have signed Schneider at $700k for 1 year as examples. Now hearing of talk of buying out another recent signing in Holtby? What i find hard to accept is that all our signings are the ones people talk of buying out ,because no team finds value in what we pay

That is the crux isn't it?  It's also why i'm not absolutely sure JB is the right guy for the job and that maybe a change isn't a bad idea.   Do think he's earned another off season though because his last one was for sure his toughest to date.   And that says a lot.   Maybe fans forget but we were still a good  team when he took over and he was faced with a massive goalie issue.    That IMO was his first hurdle and he did the best job he could, signed Miller and went after Iginla, lost and took the next best player in Vrbata. 

[alt kilgore]

18 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

For ease of thread topic, suggesting we define aging vets as 30 yrs, or having already reached about 500 career, gp.

 

Personally feel a rising number of our youth are of an age that they can help(incoming ELC types), as opposed to being helped themselves.

 

Q1.. Is it high time to transition our core of key players into a range of young to mid-20's? Guys like Nils Hoglander often appear to be playing the most "vet" style, of whatever roster we're running.

Our average age has ranged around 27-28, but hard to nail this down precisely, with all the turnover. Would this be a good time to aim for the 26-ish range, assembling a young roster(perhaps in youngest third of all NHL squads)?

 

Keep only 1 of Benn/Ham

Goodbye to Eddie

Return the Bfg from Siberia

Buyout for LouiE

Maybe another for AR

 

Perhaps never give more than 2 yrs(future signings) to any such vets in FAgency?

 

or, Q2.. Might it be a tad early to aggressively transition to a younger roster(in 2021-22, of course)?

 

Which do you prefer? Any specific moves come to mind?..

 

Reminds me of Wild in the Streets (1968)

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

@kilgore Just watched the first 20 secs(traumatised already). Reminded me of 1980's training camps(who was that maniac coach, "The Gauntlet"?)..my memory is foggy this morn...

[ShawnAntoski]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Think we have a lot in common.  I spend a lot of time defending JB,  doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes because for sure he has, or that i think he's a god because for sure he isn't.   After all the GMs i've seen and gone, Nonis comes to mind but in a different view.   Nonis made arguably the most pivotal move in francise history in trading Bert for Luongo.  No run without him, no presidents trophies either.    He's also had one of the best drafts in history and one of the worst in history.    The vibe is there because i can see JB losing his job if we miss next season, and then someone new coming in like some super hero making a few supportive moves and us contending.    For me at least, don't see the point in that - and get that the sample size is a lot different, but do think JB has done enough to see it all through. 

Yeah, hopefully Aquaman can see the whole picture when it comes to JB cause even Poile & Holland were once first time GM’s and were given chances after some bad decision(s) - hindsight.  
 

Imo, a team/company that is constantly in a state of change in the upper management doesn’t benefit it in the long run cause when a change is done in the upper echelon, it also means changes downhill.  Preferably, Aquaman hires a team president that can work and supplement JB in his duties as GM, would be a good first move prior to any player movement.  Also, it would had been nice to see this roster with a different coach before this shorten season would had ended but moving on; and now that the pretend playoff push is over, I hope JB can trade off some of the vets - especially, the ones on expiring deals - for draft picks to replenish the prospect cupboard.    

Edited April 1, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[IBatch]

29 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, hopefully Aquaman can see the whole picture when it comes to JB cause even Poile & Holland were once first time GM’s and were given chances after some bad decision(s) - hindsight.  
 

Imo, a team/company that is constantly in a state of change in the upper management doesn’t benefit a it in the long run cause when a change is done in the upper echelon, it also means changes downhill.  Preferably, Aquaman hires a team president that can work and supplement JB in his duties as GM.  Also, it would had been nice to see this roster with a different coach before this shorten season would had ended but moving on; and that the pretend playoff push is over, I hope JB can trade off some of the vets - especially, the ones on expiring deals - for draft picks to replenish the prospect cupboard.    

For sure.   Been saying Pearson since last year over and over again.  Hope he's just PR'ing with his comments he'd like to re-sign him, and if he does it's for less and for a third line role.   Prefer he sells him or just lets him go.   Feel our defense is lagging behind and needs to concentrate on overhauling it.   Maybe that's in part coaching, maybe it's not, won't go there.   Do feel we are still a few key players away from becoming a regular playoff team.    

[ShawnAntoski]

19 hours ago, IBatch said:

For sure.   Been saying Pearson since last year over and over again.  Hope he's just PR'ing with his comments he'd like to re-sign him, and if he does it's for less and for a third line role.   Prefer he sells him or just lets him go.   Feel our defense is lagging behind and needs to concentrate on overhauling it.   Maybe that's in part coaching, maybe it's not, won't go there.   Do feel we are still a few key players away from becoming a regular playoff team.    

Ditto.  Since it is now obvious the pretend playoff push is over & no coaching changes till the end of the season, I hope they showcase more of the rookies (especially, OJ and in the D core) and let’s see how the staff does with the rookies or a different lineup..

 

Imo, all our FA(s) not traded should walk, especially, in the D.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[VegasCanuck]

17 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I think we also need Holtby's contract for 1 'tender, ED-exposure..do we not?

 

Maybe afterwards we can retain rubles & flip him like a hotcake?

Bingo, this is exactly why he's here. Hopefully Seattle takes him.

[wai_lai416]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:30 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Because we could get a backup in the UFA market for a quarter of the price.  His buyout would save is $3.8 million in cap space next year, as his cap hit would only be $500,000.  You can get a serviceable backup in free agency for $1 million.  That's $2.8 million in cap space that we can use to sign Hamonic or some other Dman to play with Hughes.  We don't have any cap space without buying out some contracts after we sign Petey and Hughes to extensions.  

 

Benning signed Holtby because he didn't know if Demko was going to become a true starter.  Now that Demko is playing like a Vezina trophy candidate we can let Holtby go and just get a cheap backup who can play 25 games.

so instead of getting a filler dman next year since we prolly going no where again with our current defense you want to add a cap hit on the following year where we should be active and pushing? why are we wasting cap space on a flat cap with these buyout? save cap space for next year when we prolly ain't contending and then add it to the year where we should be contending?

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, DSVII said:

Haha well funny how quick things change. Benning opted for the long term and not the bridge with Demko. So looks like bye bye Loui.

For sure a better deal for us considering we bought UFA years (3 i think).   But still it's about the same money 3.75-4 x 3 too.    LE getting bought out next season wouldn't be the worse thing in the world.   But it hasn't happened yet either.   

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Ditto.  Since it is now obvious the pretend playoff push is over & no coaching changes till the end of the season, I hope they showcase more of the rookies (especially, OJ and in the D core) and let’s see how the staff does with the rookies or different lineup..

 

Imo, all our FA(s) not traded should walk, especially, in the D.

 

 

Hamonic isn't a bad re-signing given we still don't have anyone on the right side and that he seems to have helped QHs settle down now that he's accustomed to playing with the Canucks.   Has decent size and plays with a chip/edge, he'd be fine as our "new Benn" while we wait for more money and a better option.  

 

Pearson yes for sure.   We could upgrade that position too, there for sure are better LWs this year.   Quite a few really.   Timing is wrong though.   Personally feel our UFA dollars need to be spent wisely this off season, on Covid  deals like Hamonic was/is.    One year only, and then make a splash after that (LE, Luongo off the books). 

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

@kilgore Just watched the first 20 secs(traumatised already). Reminded me of 1980's training camps(who was that maniac coach, "The Gauntlet"?)..my memory is foggy this morn...

Pride Hustle and Desire?  Lol.   Couldn't make this stuff up. 

[steviewonder20]

21 hours ago, DSVII said:

I think this answer is going to depend on how much we end up extending Petey, Hughes, Demko for. And whether we can sign depth for cheap. 

 

We'll have $29 mil in cap for the offeseason to extend these 3 (assuming Petey and Hughes are both 6 mil, Demko 3 mil.) Then we'd have 14 mil left to sign 

 

three defensemen 

a top 6 winger (or top 9)

a 3 C

and 1 depth forward

 

I'm pretty confident we can fill the depth role for cheap, Podholzin fingers-crossed, can transition to a top 6 role, and Edler agrees to take a significant discount. We'll be helped by the depressed salaries from flat cap a little, I'm not saying it is impossible. If we can fit this, then for sure let's eat Loui's cap for one more year.

 

Basically no more trying to chase OELs this offseason, be more prudent and measured and spend on cost effective guys.

Demko just got 5x5 and I’d be surprised if Petey and Hughes are only 6, as I’m sure JB wants to lock them up for long term.

[DSVII]

17 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

Demko just got 5x5 and I’d be surprised if Petey and Hughes are only 6, as I’m sure JB wants to lock them up for long term.

Yep, looking closer to 7-8 now. If it's long term I don't mind, just means more buyouts we'll need to do or more cost effective players.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

so instead of getting a filler dman next year since we prolly going no where again with our current defense you want to add a cap hit on the following year where we should be active and pushing? why are we wasting cap space on a flat cap with these buyout? save cap space for next year when we prolly ain't contending and then add it to the year where we should be contending?

So we are supposed to write off next year completely so we can save $1.9 million in cap space for 2022?

 

Tell that to the fans who are going to be buying tickets next year. See what they say.  Luckily the building was empty this year. 

[aGENT]

19 hours ago, DSVII said:

Haha well funny how quick things change. Benning opted for the long term and not the bridge with Demko. So looks like bye bye Loui.

Pretty sure we were buying out Eriksson regardless. Short of him retiring ( ) anyway.

 

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So we are supposed to write off next year completely so we can save $1.9 million in cap space for 2022?

 

Tell that to the fans who are going to be buying tickets next year. See what they say.  Luckily the building was empty this year. 

We don't need to buy out Holtby to continue to push forward next year. He's perfectly fine as our 1B for one more piddly year. Seems an awful lot of work to buy him out, only to sign another guy (who's also likely a downgrade) for minimal cap savings (a decent backup is still going to be $2m+) next season and unnecessary cap expenditure the year after.

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Pretty sure we were buying out Eriksson regardless. Short of him retiring ( ) anyway.

 

We don't need to buy out Holtby to continue to push forward next year. He's perfectly fine as our 1B for one more piddly year. Seems an awful lot of work to buy him out, only to sign another guy (who's also likely a downgrade) for minimal cap savings (a decent backup is still going to be $2m+) next season and unnecessary cap expenditure the year after.

JB often does something we aren't really expecting.   Maybe that's what we should expect lol.   However i have my doubts that another Miller, Myers, Schmidt type transaction will appear yet again this off-season, all three are rare deals.   

 

So hope that management focuses on EP, QHs, what to do about Edler, and continues to stay away from anything that could become the "next LE".    That's a tough one really, it happens all the time.    Timing isn't right to "go for it"... that's coming up later.    Hope for a relatively calm off season, looking forward to the draft and to the signings we need to fill out the roster.  EP and QHs really should and likely will be the biggest things we have to look forward too.   JB ... well let's just say i won't be too surprised to expect one thing out of left field though. 

 

Edit:  My secret obsession would be somehow prying Hamilton out of CAR.   That would be a home run... it will likely be something totally different though.   Could be a roster move that included a swap of core players.   Would sure like Horvat to get a quality winger to work with for example.   Or a guy like Lowry. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by IBatch

[Elias Pettersson]

45 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Pretty sure we were buying out Eriksson regardless. Short of him retiring ( ) anyway.

 

We don't need to buy out Holtby to continue to push forward next year. He's perfectly fine as our 1B for one more piddly year. Seems an awful lot of work to buy him out, only to sign another guy (who's also likely a downgrade) for minimal cap savings (a decent backup is still going to be $2m+) next season and unnecessary cap expenditure the year after.

I’m pretty sure we can sign a backup next year for $1.5 million who will give us the same numbers as Holtby this year, 3.57 GAA, .894% SV.  Those numbers are brutal. Paying a backup $4.3 million to play 25 games and produce those kind of numbers would be terrible. 
 

The Canucks will need to be competitive next year. This year was a write off but next year there will be fans in the stands. The expectations will be much higher for this team. Every penny will count when it comes to the cap. If we can free up $2 million by buying out Holtby that can help us to get a 3C so we can have a competitive 3rd line next year. Hamonic may not sign here so we’d also need money to have someone to play with Hughes. I’m hoping we can somehow trade Virtanen so we can free up an additional $2.5 million so we can get a long term partner for Hughes.