Time To Jettison Aging Vets?

[RU SERIOUS]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:05 AM, Hockey God said:

We should all know by now the following:

1. Benning doesn't trade vets out of "loyalty";

2. Because of the above, we are stuck with albatross contracts until they either retire or come to end of contract;

3. Because of both of the above, the team will always have needs, but will never be able to get what it needs the most; 

4. Because of the above three points, the coaching staff and Benning are safe, as the "process" can never be completed due to circumstances beyond their control, aka other teams not being willing to pay anything for our junk;

5. Finally, because of the above 4 points, being a Canucks fan is one of the most excruciating things you can be.  I know, because I've been one since the mid 1970s.

This could possibly be .............................

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****************POST OF THE YEAR**************************

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[RU SERIOUS]

On 4/2/2021 at 9:45 AM, ShawnAntoski said:

Mostly agree: that all of our FA vets should walk, especially, in the D core.  

 

Preferably, it would be nice to see the roster (that includes JV) with a different staff that emphasizes rolling four line (despite the talent).

Agree, except about Lazy Jake.   He is a boat anchor and will likely either be in Prison or passed out behind the Roxy next year.   Either way, he played his last game in a canucks uniform.  

[ShawnAntoski]

7 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Agree, except about Lazy Jake.   He is a boat anchor and will likely either be in Prison or passed out behind the Roxy next year.   Either way, he played his last game in a canucks uniform.  

JV is gone regardless due to the stigma of the situation cause most/some of the fans will not tolerate it; just like AG (who seems to be thriving in Chicago by playing legit minutes) the PR department will be trading him as well.   
 

The fan culture (rather the most vocal) had already sealed JVs’ tenure as a Canuck - hopefully, we get a few seventh rounders rather than a high motor 4th liner or AHL’er in return.  

Edited May 9, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:05 AM, Hockey God said:

We should all know by now the following:

1. Benning doesn't trade vets out of "loyalty";

2. Because of the above, we are stuck with albatross contracts until they either retire or come to end of contract;

3. Because of both of the above, the team will always have needs, but will never be able to get what it needs the most; 

4. Because of the above three points, the coaching staff and Benning are safe, as the "process" can never be completed due to circumstances beyond their control, aka other teams not being willing to pay anything for our junk;

5. Finally, because of the above 4 points, being a Canucks fan is one of the most excruciating things you can be.  I know, because I've been one since the mid 1970s.

You must be a good computer programmer - well said !

 

JB has signed some very generous retirement contracts during his tenure as GM - hopefully his tendency to overpay for intangibles is over; rather, give the rookies a legit chance to play first then sign a support player when the need does come up to a cheap contract and give the young core that role instead.  

Edited May 9, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[iceman64]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:32 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Most of our vets are UFA's, so they can be gone in the summer.  Edler, Benn, Sutter, Baertschi, Pearson.  If Aquilini approves then we can also buyout Eriksson and Holtby.  That would leave only Roussel and Beagle.  Beagle is still useful as a 4C for one more year, while Roussel can sit in the press box for a year as an injury fill in.  That leaves us with plenty of spots for the young guys.  Podkolzin, Lind, Gadjovich, Tryamkin, Juolevi and Rathbone should all be given the chance to make the team right out of camp next year.

 

Schmidt and Myers still have a role on this team as well as Beagle, you can't rid of everybody.  Hamonic could be re-signed based on the dollars to play with Hughes for another year or two, so they are pretty much the only 4 I'd want to see in the lineup next year that are 30

On 3/31/2021 at 12:05 AM, Hockey God said:

We should all know by now the following:

1. Benning doesn't trade vets out of "loyalty";

2. Because of the above, we are stuck with albatross contracts until they either retire or come to end of contract;

3. Because of both of the above, the team will always have needs, but will never be able to get what it needs the most; 

4. Because of the above three points, the coaching staff and Benning are safe, as the "process" can never be completed due to circumstances beyond their control, aka other teams not being willing to pay anything for our junk;

5. Finally, because of the above 4 points, being a Canucks fan is one of the most excruciating things you can be.  I know, because I've been one since the mid 1970s.

 

Could you be anymore "yesterday" than that??? I don't think so, and there was/is only one albatross and he's LE, it's like he fell asleep here playing with the Twins, he scored 30 goals with the B's and should have pulled at least 30-35+ with the Twins but I would have done that deal all day long especially after he played on their line at the world championships, and then for some unseen reason that we'll never know, he nose dived and if you think ANYONE saw that coming, you'd be a liar... 

 The mentors, were those we needed to help our young guys along by teaching on ice andddddd brought in some grit as well but that teaching will show when it's needed the most and that's what Edmonton lacked until they started adding, exactly like JB did, and the mentorship is all but over, and we won't be signing anymore so "GET OVER IT" already!

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 5/10/2021 at 2:18 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

 

 

 Can't help wondering just how young next yr's roster will be?

 

Which coaches stay? Player contracts...buyouts? Throw in an ED & Draft, & this should be quite the interesting summer.

Well, interesting it certainly has been.

Apparently, it WAS high time to jettison a large number of vets. I had also advocated patience, not believing they could dump so much dead / underperforming AAV in one fell swoop!

 

We do have a nice, young, avg age for our fwds. Also think it's wise we've sprinkled in some more exp'd D, alongside the young blueliners.

 

We can partly thank such a lousy 2020-21 season, I s'pose? Would the 'Yotes have made our deal, if we didn't have a top-10 pick? Tough to say. Sure it helped!

Can't understand the consternation regarding our revamped D? Appears to me Brad Shaw has been given a lot to work with. Really looking forward to seeing(hopefully..touch wood) a vast improvement back there.

 

We've got a 100+ pt team again, folks..that's what I'm calling. This aggressive summer has shifted everything a season(or two) forward. Can't wait 'til Fall.

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 3/31/2021 at 4:05 PM, Hockey God said:

We should all know by now the following:

1. Benning doesn't trade vets out of "loyalty";

2. Because of the above, we are stuck with albatross contracts until they either retire or come to end of contract;

3. Because of both of the above, the team will always have needs, but will never be able to get what it needs the most; 

4. Because of the above three points, the coaching staff and Benning are safe, as the "process" can never be completed due to circumstances beyond their control, aka other teams not being willing to pay anything for our junk;

5. Finally, because of the above 4 points, being a Canucks fan is one of the most excruciating things you can be.  I know, because I've been one since the mid 1970s.

Ahh, here we go(just saw this post). This is proof our persistent negativity doesn't necessarily have to win the day.

 

It HAD been a long, dark tunnel(2014------>>>>>>>>>>to 2020 bubble & now)..yet perhaps it's finally coming to an end?

 

So we CAN have threads like this one here, to muse about the future(both near & far). No one gets hurt, & if you scroll through a few of these pages, think you'll find several posters made accurate, worthwhile predictions.

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 5/10/2021 at 3:15 AM, RU SERIOUS said:

This could possibly be .............................

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****************POST OF THE YEAR**************************

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Au contraire! In fact, it's been Utterly refuted!

[Hockey God]

Not persistently negative, just tired of the same old, same old with no light at the end of the tunnel, and then when it looks like it is approaching, it just gets farther away again. Time and again, this team tries to spend its way into the playoffs, and it never works.  I also would say not refuted, because basically #2 happened; entering last year of contract = end of contract for trading purposes. Also, #4 kind of works as well; our junk became valuable to one team when they could get rid of their junk, hence it wasn't junk anymore.  I will say this, though ... changing from one set of turds to a shinier new turd does not a win make; sure, OEL could rebound, but even after all I said, it still would have been better for Benning to wait one more year.  I think OEL would have still been available, and we would have been in a much better position cap wise and roster wise to drive a harder bargain to take on that contract.  Benning conned ownership to throw potentially even more bad money after bad money.  I wish OEL the best as a Canuck fan, and having Garland included could be great, but players come here with great reps and then enjoy the Club Med atmosphere a little too much and fade away.  This contract will hurt in 3 years, and maybe even sooner if he doesn't play up to his abilities, and without a change in the head coach, OEL may not be allowed to bounce back.  We shall see ...              

[Googlie]

5 hours ago, Hockey God said:

Not persistently negative, just tired of the same old, same old with no light at the end of the tunnel, and then when it looks like it is approaching, it just gets farther away again. Time and again, this team tries to spend its way into the playoffs, and it never works.  I also would say not refuted, because basically #2 happened; entering last year of contract = end of contract for trading purposes. Also, #4 kind of works as well; our junk became valuable to one team when they could get rid of their junk, hence it wasn't junk anymore.  I will say this, though ... changing from one set of turds to a shinier new turd does not a win make; sure, OEL could rebound, but even after all I said, it still would have been better for Benning to wait one more year.  I think OEL would have still been available, and we would have been in a much better position cap wise and roster wise to drive a harder bargain to take on that contract.  Benning conned ownership to throw potentially even more bad money after bad money.  I wish OEL the best as a Canuck fan, and having Garland included could be great, but players come here with great reps and then enjoy the Club Med atmosphere a little too much and fade away.  This contract will hurt in 3 years, and maybe even sooner if he doesn't play up to his abilities, and without a change in the head coach, OEL may not be allowed to bounce back.  We shall see ...              

You cant have it both ways.  "End of contract" does not equal "entering last year of contract". 

 

End of contract means UFA, no value (except negotiating rights .. were there any offers for negotiating rights on Edler this year or Tanev last year, etc?)

 

Entering last year of contract means still some value in a player, and JB has monetized that.

 

Your #4 argument doesn't hold water either.  Only 1 team was interested in " our junk" whereas several teams were interested in Arizona's "junk". Theirs still had shelf life, ours was dumpster bound.

 

And your "Club Med" analogy sounds to me like clutching at straws to justify your stance.  Give some examples if you want to be credible

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Googlie said:

Only 1 team was interested in " our junk" whereas several teams were interested in Arizona's "junk". Theirs still had shelf life, ours was dumpster bound.

This is very interesting since we had Loui et al to dump in their knees.

I wonder what other teams wanted to dump since their dump was worse than ours. 

 

[Patel Bure]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:52 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

 

 

Keep only 1 of Benn/Ham

Goodbye to Eddie

Return the Bfg from Siberia

Buyout for LouiE

Maybe another for AR

 

 

Lets see how you did:

1) We kept Hamonic

2) Edler is gone

3) No return from Tryamkin (as an aside, he would have fit this team like a glove the way that we've configured our defense.....maybe our future Hamonic replacement?)

4) Loui traded with no retention

5) Roussel traded with no retention

[JM_]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:52 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

For ease of thread topic, suggesting we define aging vets as 30 yrs, or having already reached about 500 career, gp.

 

Personally feel a rising number of our youth are of an age that they can help(incoming ELC types), as opposed to being helped themselves.

 

Q1.. Is it high time to transition our core of key players into a range of young to mid-20's? Guys like Nils Hoglander often appear to be playing the most "vet" style, of whatever roster we're running.

Our average age has ranged around 27-28, but hard to nail this down precisely, with all the turnover. Would this be a good time to aim for the 26-ish range, assembling a young roster(perhaps in youngest third of all NHL squads)?

 

Keep only 1 of Benn/Ham

Goodbye to Eddie

Return the Bfg from Siberia

Buyout for LouiE

Maybe another for AR

 

Perhaps never give more than 2 yrs(future signings) to any such vets in FAgency?

 

or, Q2.. Might it be a tad early to aggressively transition to a younger roster(in 2021-22, of course)?

 

Which do you prefer? Any specific moves come to mind?..

So.... did you hire a witch, or was it a crystal ball?

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:03 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

So.... did you hire a witch, or was it a crystal ball?

In late-March, these were sincere questions/projections Jimmy..& then Whammo! The COVID mayhem hit us, & all(Team & fans alike) seemed like we were huddled in the eye of a media(& haterz) hurricane.

 

"& from the hottest fires come the strongest steel..blah x3" Hey man, after all that happened to this good bunch of blokes, let's figure they're comin' back strong next season, eh?

[spook007]

4 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

In late-March, these were sincere questions/projections Jimmy..& then Whammo! The COVID mayhem hit us, & all(Team & fans alike) seemed like we were huddled in the eye of a media(& haterz) hurricane.

 

"& from the hottest fires come the strongest steel..blah x3" Hey man, after all that happened to this good bunch of blokes, let's figure they're comin' back strong next season, eh?

Good call nevertheless amigo 

[grouse747]

honestly, we were terrible last year.... we would have been firmly in bottom of half of the league if we'd have no adverse issues.

 

so why not play younger players?..... what exactly do we have to lose?...... "if the young players don't play well, we might finish in bottom 3rd of league". frankly we are there already.

[lmm]

On 7/30/2021 at 8:41 AM, Timråfan said:

This is very interesting since we had Loui et al to dump in their knees.

I wonder what other teams wanted to dump since their dump was worse than ours. 

 

guys with 2+ years on their bad contracts

[Devron]

@Nuxfanabroad damn man you did it 

[Millerdraft]

On 7/30/2021 at 1:33 AM, Hockey God said:

Not persistently negative, just tired of the same old, same old with no light at the end of the tunnel, and then when it looks like it is approaching, it just gets farther away again. Time and again, this team tries to spend its way into the playoffs, and it never works.  I also would say not refuted, because basically #2 happened; entering last year of contract = end of contract for trading purposes. Also, #4 kind of works as well; our junk became valuable to one team when they could get rid of their junk, hence it wasn't junk anymore.  I will say this, though ... changing from one set of turds to a shinier new turd does not a win make; sure, OEL could rebound, but even after all I said, it still would have been better for Benning to wait one more year.  I think OEL would have still been available, and we would have been in a much better position cap wise and roster wise to drive a harder bargain to take on that contract.  Benning conned ownership to throw potentially even more bad money after bad money.  I wish OEL the best as a Canuck fan, and having Garland included could be great, but players come here with great reps and then enjoy the Club Med atmosphere a little too much and fade away.  This contract will hurt in 3 years, and maybe even sooner if he doesn't play up to his abilities, and without a change in the head coach, OEL may not be allowed to bounce back.  We shall see ...              

One more wasted year results in:

 

1.  JT Miller’s agent letting management & ownership know in December that they are demanding a trade, hopefully by the deadline or they will let future free agents know that this ownership sits on player’s prime years without trying to do damage in the playoffs.

 

2.  Horvat’s agent follows suit at season’s end and informs both ownership and management that he will not be wasting the rest of his prime while the franchise tries to find a fully developed top-six powerforward, in his prime, to replace the recently departed top-six powerforward in his prime.

 

3.  Suddenly we are in the Buffalo Sabres’ rebuild model with Eichel (Pettersson) and Dahlin (Hughes), and not much else.

 

How long was it before the losing led to the current Eichel situation?

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:44 AM, Millerdraft said:

One more wasted year results in:

 

1.  JT Miller’s agent letting management & ownership know in December that they are demanding a trade, hopefully by the deadline or they will let future free agents know that this ownership sits on player’s prime years without trying to do damage in the playoffs.

 

2.  Horvat’s agent follows suit at season’s end and informs both ownership and management that he will not be wasting the rest of his prime while the franchise tries to find a fully developed top-six powerforward, in his prime, to replace the recently departed top-six powerforward in his prime.

 

3.  Suddenly we are in the Buffalo Sabres’ rebuild model with Eichel (Pettersson) and Dahlin (Hughes), and not much else.

 

How long was it before the losing led to the current Eichel situation?

Like this viewpoint. Have to assume vets & exp'd mid-20's regulars are appreciating JB's aggressive summer.