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Bridge Deals for Peterson/Hughes?

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Alot of talk was 8-9M for these guys which I think is insane..

 

#40/43 are among my favorite players, but I dont think they are worth superstar money like that.. At least not yet.

 

Id love to get them at a bargain long term, but I think there is just too much risk. They are still young and although they can dominate at times they are not " game changers" - at least not at a high level consistantly YET.

 

Id prefer a bridge deal for both unless they give good deals long.. 3/4 years at 6ish Million

 

Would love to see what people are thinking on this

 

Benning has a chance here to build a championship team IF, and only IF he starts signing better contracts moving forward

 

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If Pettersson and Hughes can be signed for Kucherov and Hedman money after their ELC as bridge deals I would be happy. 

 

Edited by iinatcc
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16 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Which of the core contracts that Benning has signed do you object to?  Horvat, Boeser, Demko all signed very reasonable deals.

I think he means the UFA signings which have all been mostly a flop. Who were his good signings? Vrbata, Ryan Miller, and maybe Tomas Vanek. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Which of the core contracts that Benning has signed do you object to?  Horvat, Boeser, Demko all signed very reasonable deals.

He didn’t say ‘core’ and let’s not act like Benning’s horrible UFA signings aren’t ruining our team.......

Loui, Sutter, Beagle, Rousell, Baer, etc.....  

These 5 make up over 20 million and not a single one is even close to a positive contributor to this team.  
Each one was paid more than they were worth, and could have found cheaper and shorter termed players quite easily.  
 

He has done ok with RFA. The guys with zero negotiation power.   
 

Im a Benning fan, but let’s be honest.  He has crippled this team. 

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2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

He didn’t say ‘core’ and let’s not act like Benning’s horrible UFA signings aren’t ruining our team.......

Loui, Sutter, Beagle, Rousell, Baer, etc.....  

These 5 make up over 20 million and not a single one is even close to a positive contributor to this team.  
Each one was paid more than they were worth, and could have found cheaper and shorter termed players quite easily.  
 

He has done ok with RFA. The guys with zero negotiation power.   
 

Im a Benning fan, but let’s be honest.  He has crippled this team. 

yeah Jim's not done well on UFA signings, but I'm not sure how you can't call Beagle and Sutter positive contributors? I just don't get that. 

 

bridge deals for Petey and Hughes make sense for everyone, I'd expect 3 year deals ending up in 8-9 mil QO's. E.g., they could both get 6.5 AAV, ending up with 8+ mil in their last year of the deal if my math is right.

 

this guy goes over the salary variance allowed now: https://businessofhockey.wordpress.com/2021/03/15/updating-the-nhl-contract-calculator-for-new-salary-variability-rules/

 

 

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For sure QHs and EP are the next two biggest deals JB needs to make.   Once they are done, the rest will fall into place.  Personally i feel the most either should get on long term deals are 7.5 x 8 or in that range... Barzal and AHO > then EP.    And the AHO deal was an offer sheet.   Makar and Heiskanen > QHs, those deals haven't happened yet but for sure they will make an impact if they do before QHs gets signed.    Think 6.5 x 6 for both of them is a good mid range deal that works both for the team, and for them as by then Covid implications will be resolved and set them up for a big pay day.    It also keeps our cap structure where it needs to be.    Point got less then seven on a bridge and did way more then EP.     Add tax back to it and that deal is around 7.25 x 3.   Barzal bridge also is too high for EP.    Sucks that Keller and Flamingo are also in there, but since that nobody else has done anything ridiculous too.    

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JP Barry and Pat Brisson are both Hughes and Pettersson's agents.  These two agents will milk the most money they can out of GMJB.  To think these contracts will be cheap or fair is probably a little naive.  Barry and Brison are everything wrong with the NHL.

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19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah Jim's not done well on UFA signings, but I'm not sure how you can't call Beagle and Sutter positive contributors? I just don't get that. 

 

bridge deals for Petey and Hughes make sense for everyone, I'd expect 3 year deals ending up in 8-9 mil QO's. E.g., they could both get 6.5 AAV, ending up with 8+ mil in their last year of the deal if my math is right.

 

this guy goes over the salary variance allowed now: https://businessofhockey.wordpress.com/2021/03/15/updating-the-nhl-contract-calculator-for-new-salary-variability-rules/

 

 

That would be reasonable but i don't like the idea that the QO's need to be that high.  Neither player has done enough to warrant 8-9 million, BB deal is a better range for both as far as QO goes.   The team also doesn't have to necessarily pay this, could take them to arbitration but that can get ugly.     7-7.5 seems a lot more palatable.    Get why GMs are doing this, teams are hemorraging cash paying these guys before the income actually comes in.   Making them back loaded for sure evens out the load a little for the owners too.   

 

Before Covid i appreciate some of the numbers i've seen on here (except for the ones around 10-11 which have popped up lol),  but now it's much harder to predict contracts.   Usually they go up and up.   EP PGP now isn't much different then BB was when he got his deal.    So 6.5 x 3 makes sense as far a bridge goes, i'm hoping they can make it work for both sides, so far JB done that although it came down the wire with BB, his agent was way far out on what he valued him on a long term deal.     Bridges are very risky for star players,  Subban bet on himself, won a Norris (not really a good Norris but he did it), then got a massive contract, which of course he never earned.   Fortunately their is enough in the pipe, and cash freeing up, that JB can do either or (bridge or term).   I'm hoping for a deal like Horvats for both, given that it maximize our best window (2-4 years from now).     Of course there is risk both ways too.   6.5-7x6. 

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29 minutes ago, IBatch said:

That would be reasonable but i don't like the idea that the QO's need to be that high.  Neither player has done enough to warrant 8-9 million, BB deal is a better range for both as far as QO goes.   The team also doesn't have to necessarily pay this, could take them to arbitration but that can get ugly.     7-7.5 seems a lot more palatable.    Get why GMs are doing this, teams are hemorraging cash paying these guys before the income actually comes in.   Making them back loaded for sure evens out the load a little for the owners too.   

to me it seems almost unavoidable the way both players and teams want to back load contracts as much as they can, so I kind of see it as inevitable that the last year will have the max variance allowed. A high QO is very likely imo. 

 

Quote

Before Covid i appreciate some of the numbers i've seen on here (except for the ones around 10-11 which have popped up lol),  but now it's much harder to predict contracts.   Usually they go up and up.   EP PGP now isn't much different then BB was when he got his deal.    So 6.5 x 3 makes sense as far a bridge goes, i'm hoping they can make it work for both sides, so far JB done that although it came down the wire with BB, his agent was way far out on what he valued him on a long term deal.     Bridges are very risky for star players,  Subban bet on himself, won a Norris (not really a good Norris but he did it), then got a massive contract, which of course he never earned.   Fortunately their is enough in the pipe, and cash freeing up, that JB can do either or (bridge or term).   I'm hoping for a deal like Horvats for both, given that it maximize our best window (2-4 years from now).     Of course there is risk both ways too.   6.5-7x6. 

Its interesting, if Petey e.g. was willing to go long and do 8x8 and eat into his UFA years, would you do that deal? Hughes?

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14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

to me it seems almost unavoidable the way both players and teams want to back load contracts as much as they can, so I kind of see it as inevitable that the last year will have the max variance allowed. A high QO is very likely imo. 

 

Its interesting, if Petey e.g. was willing to go long and do 8x8 and eat into his UFA years, would you do that deal? Hughes?

I would 100% do 8*8 for Petey in a heatrbeat ( I think he'll be asking for more though).  I don't think I would do that for Hughes though

Edited by mpass1
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3 minutes ago, mpass1 said:

I would 100% do 8*8 for Petey in a heatrbeat ( I think he'll be asking for more though).  I don't think I would do that for Hughes though

its hard to say what Petey does, he may be like MacKinnon and take less to be on a winning team. 

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its hard to say what Petey does, he may be like MacKinnon and take less to be on a winning team. 

Good points above Jimmy - Mackinnon signed a fair deal for the time and what he'd been playing like up until then...and of course he exploded a couple years in.  Rantanen owes him some of his salary lol... At the time they weren't really a winning team yet either, promising maybe.     

 

Feel the owners also want to make deals like this as it will help them a ton with their cash flow and give them some time to make up once the gate revenues start again, so yes it will be the way things go.   

 

One consideration is also staggering contracts, JB will be putting himself or someone else in a tough spot with Miller and Horvat also coming up .. and Myers even.  Plus BB.   You'd think they'd want to do a longer deal on at least one of them, and the talk is to do them as pair (identical deals)...second deals should never be mostly on potential.   Feel that 6.5-7x6 is a good deal for both sides, probably a little too team friendly but that's what i'm hoping for anyways. 

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Well.  w're currently in an interesting situation.  These are players who normally would command 7-8 maybe even 9 million if we judge by the metric of 2 years ago.

 

But, were in a covid economy in the NHL.  Flat increases in the cap.  NO revenue at the gate.  Almost ZERO revenue growth from events and merchandise.  The most recent TV signing is only replacing an expired one which doesn't add much at all.  Added the introduction of another new team over the horizon which will do nothing again for growth due to a lack of season ticket sales and gate revenue.

 

I'll be the odd man out here and suggest that $5.75 million to $7 million is a max value increase under these circumstances.  The question is if would be year to year or multi year for the kids.

Edited by Warhippy
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1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Well.  w're currently in an interesting situation.  These are players who normally would command 7-8 maybe even 9 million if we judge by the metric of 2 years ago.

 

But, were in a covid economy in the NHL.  Flat increases in the cap.  NO revenue at the gate.  Almost ZERO revenue growth from events and merchandise.  The most recent TV signing is only replacing an expired one which doesn't add much at all.  Added the introduction of another new team over the horizon which will do nothing again for growth due to a lack of season ticket sales and gate revenue.

 

I'll be the odd man out here and suggest that $6 million to $7.25 million is a max value increase under these circumstances.  The question is if would be year to year or multi year for the kids.

Pretty much how i feel too.   Barzal set the bridge market to a degree.   AHO isn't that old but was done pre-Covid, he did more the  EP up until then so feel that no way should it be any higher on a longer term deal.   Why i'm suggesting 6.5-7x6 for both of them.   It also gives the GM some breathing room, bridging both is a big risk.    If either explodes the next deal will be here right when we should have our max window, could back-fire very very bad for us.  

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41 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

to me it seems almost unavoidable the way both players and teams want to back load contracts as much as they can, so I kind of see it as inevitable that the last year will have the max variance allowed. A high QO is very likely imo. 

 

Its interesting, if Petey e.g. was willing to go long and do 8x8 and eat into his UFA years, would you do that deal? Hughes?

Heck yes!  I'd do 250k x 8 lol. 

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1 hour ago, Bell said:

 Barry and Brison are everything wrong with the NHL.

They don't pay the players,  the owners do.   Let's remember that.  At the end of the day every NHL owner/GM could have said no before signing any bad/overpriced contract in the league - but they chose to sign.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

For sure QHs and EP are the next two biggest deals JB needs to make.   Once they are done, the rest will fall into place.  Personally i feel the most either should get on long term deals are 7.5 x 8 or in that range... Barzal and AHO > then EP.    And the AHO deal was an offer sheet.   Makar and Heiskanen > QHs, those deals haven't happened yet but for sure they will make an impact if they do before QHs gets signed.    Think 6.5 x 6 for both of them is a good mid range deal that works both for the team, and for them as by then Covid implications will be resolved and set them up for a big pay day.    It also keeps our cap structure where it needs to be.    Point got less then seven on a bridge and did way more then EP.     Add tax back to it and that deal is around 7.25 x 3.   Barzal bridge also is too high for EP.    Sucks that Keller and Flamingo are also in there, but since that nobody else has done anything ridiculous too.    

 
 
Spoiler
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1 Elias Pettersson F VAN N Oct-Jun Same RFA 21 8 $10,320,000 0% 7% 5% 2% 22% 27% 7% 30% $7,065,000 $6,503,000 $8,135,000 $8,405,000 $8,989,000 $9,045,000 $9,392,000 $10,320,000 6 $9,204,000
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1 Quinn Hughes D VAN N Oct-Jun Same RFA 20 6 $6,885,000 0% 9% 8% 5% 12% 47% 13% 8% $3,790,000 $5,046,000 $5,542,000 $5,956,000 $6,204,000 $6,885,000 $6,611,000 $8,016,000 5.5 $6,544,000
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1 Cale Makar D COL N Oct-Jun Same RFA 21 6 $8,103,000 0% 4% 7% 5% 8% 34% 21% 21% $5,943,000 $5,746,000 $6,871,000 $6,948,000 $8,004,000 $8,103,000 $7,876,000 $9,025,000 6.1 $8,006,000

there is proof in what you say about hughes. but othig at all about petterson, petterson scored more ppg than all of the names you provided during thier contract years. it's a proven fact that consistency is worth more than One big year. look at schiefle,point,draitsaitl,karllson. the closest player with numbers similar to petterson is eichel.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20202021&gameType=2&position=C&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,100&sort=pointsPerGame&page=0&pageSize=50

 

 
 
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12 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:
 
 
  Reveal hidden contents
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1 Elias Pettersson F VAN N Oct-Jun Same RFA 21 8 $10,320,000 0% 7% 5% 2% 22% 27% 7% 30% $7,065,000 $6,503,000 $8,135,000 $8,405,000 $8,989,000 $9,045,000 $9,392,000 $10,320,000 6 $9,204,000
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1 Quinn Hughes D VAN N Oct-Jun Same RFA 20 6 $6,885,000 0% 9% 8% 5% 12% 47% 13% 8% $3,790,000 $5,046,000 $5,542,000 $5,956,000 $6,204,000 $6,885,000 $6,611,000 $8,016,000 5.5 $6,544,000
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1 Cale Makar D COL N Oct-Jun Same RFA 21 6 $8,103,000 0% 4% 7% 5% 8% 34% 21% 21% $5,943,000 $5,746,000 $6,871,000 $6,948,000 $8,004,000 $8,103,000 $7,876,000 $9,025,000 6.1 $8,006,000
 

there is proof in what you say about hughes. but othig at all about petterson, petterson scored more ppg than all of the names you provided during thier contract years. it's a proven fact that consistency is worth more than One big year. look at schiefle,point,draitsaitl,karllson. the closest player with numbers similar to petterson is eichel.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20102011&seasonTo=20202021&gameType=2&position=C&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,100&sort=pointsPerGame&page=0&pageSize=50

 

 
 

It has to be done based on the games played before their second contract.   EP had a great rookie season, and is a consistent player, however he's also been injured twice (like BB), and it's not all about points either.   Cant take career PGP for all players and make a comparison.   EP and BB were actually pretty close ... yes EP should get a better deal, that goes without saying, but numbers like 8.5 (AHO) and up just don't jive.  

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