Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Well played Benning

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, khay said:

 

So EP gets offersheeted 8-9 mil and QH just accepts whatever Benning offers?

 

The very fact that a peer in your age group that performs similarly as you gets paid 8-9 mil immediately gives QH's camp negotiating power. QH could threaten to sit out like Marner did and no one would say he is unreasonable to do so.

 

The very reason why Marner was able to get 10+ mil was the fact that Matthews, who put up less numbers got 11 mil.

 

The day EP gets 8-9 mil is the day QH asks for the same amount or sits out.

 

Think before you type :p

 

Nobody is offer sheeting Petey $9 million. Is there even one team that has the cap space to do it?  And no Ottawa and Detroit aren’t gonna do it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

all signing are good at the time of the signing. the assumption goes like this. These people are NHL GMs so they might know something about the NHL player value.

 

"piss-poor player evaluation" if Benning is that bad explain to me how he drafts well.

This is appeal to authority. A lot of NHL GMs are just random former players, I don't see why people who have spent their entire lives following the NHL can't be better or as good at evaluating signings as actual GMs. NHL managers are often terrible and make very predictable mistakes.

 

A likely reason that Benning drafts well is because you have an entire scouting department for the draft. As you can see in any of the mic'd up draft videos on the Canucks YouTube, he often just defers to Brackett and Weisbrod.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Josepho said:

This is appeal to authority. A lot of NHL GMs are just random former players, I don't see why people who have spent their entire lives following the NHL can't be better or as good at evaluating signings as actual GMs. NHL managers are often terrible and make very predictable mistakes.

 

A likely reason that Benning drafts well is because you have an entire scouting department for the draft. As you can see in any of the mic'd up draft videos on the Canucks YouTube, he often just defers to Brackett and Weisbrod.

the bold part enough said.

 

And it is not appeal to authority. It is experiance

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

every signing Benning made, made sense at the time of the signing

Disagree. Many people on here hated the Eriksson, and Baer signing.

 

A lot of people thought the Beagle and Rooster signings weren't great.

 

Sutter.....too much money at the time.

 

Edited by Chris12345
  • Like 1
  • Hydration 1
  • Burr 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Nobody is offer sheeting Petey $9 million. Is there even one team that has the cap space to do it?  And no Ottawa and Detroit aren’t gonna do it. 

Exactly. Why would someone offer sheet Petey and not Matthews?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DSVII said:

This call is heavily reliant on how well Benning can negotiate UFA deals with Horvat and Miller and future depth signings. Yes, by forcing Petey and Hughes to signing bridge deals, we are set up to compete in 2022-2023, but the overlap of their bridge deals with our other members of the core is only for one year. Benning is officially out of cap space rope, and will need to make good value signings going forward.

 

Just a little spreadsheet with hypotheticals, using your numbers for the bridge. I do think it can be somewhere like 6.5 and 7. And keep in mind if someone offer sheets Petey for 9, we are hooped even if we match. Ever since Myers and Ferland, the team's cap situation is dangling on a tightrope.

 

Assuming we just bring up farm team prospects and just forget about competing due to cap issues in 2021-2022. Yes, we are set up for one year of competition where all the stars and numbers align (i'm assuming lower end raises for Miller, Horvat, Hogs and Boeser)

image.png.2c0ccd11f67b4872819121170dc5be4c.png

 

Long story short, with Benning's track record of negotiating with UFAs, you can forgive some of us for not being too excited about having a one year window of cost controlled competing where everything lines up. 

 

It's doable though. See how Benning navigates Horvat and Miller's extensions and what kind of contracts he wants to sign next year

 

And let's see what petey and hughes get first.

 

 

I like your Excel skills.

  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Good post.

 

Its also likely we will this off season;

 

1) Buyout Eriksson.  My math says the last year will cost us $3 mill real dollars (versus $4mill owed). Resulting in a $2.33 hit next year $1.33 next following.

2) Lose one of Holtby, Jake or Meyers to Seattle.

 

Save some salary in any case... 

No buy outs....cash flow problemo

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Nobody is offer sheeting Petey $9 million. Is there even one team that has the cap space to do it?  And no Ottawa and Detroit aren’t gonna do it. 

I hope not and I also don't think 9 is likely given the compensation but you never know. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, khay said:

Wait but this doesn't protect us from an offer sheet.

 

If someone offers EP and QH 5 year deal at 8-9 mil, how can we match?

Edit: or is QH not eligible for an offersheet?

yep, because offer sheets cost nothing in compensation, nothing at all. hell I dont know why other GM's dont do it. for the life of me I cant figure out why every top RFA doesnt get signed to an offer sheet. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

No buy outs....cash flow problemo

Its still $1 Mill lower real cash than we would owe LE if we kept him on the books.  If all it does is make room for Podkolzin, or Lind's ELC?

 

I am good with dat! 

  • Vintage 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Nobody is offer sheeting Petey $9 million. Is there even one team that has the cap space to do it?  And no Ottawa and Detroit aren’t gonna do it. 

Why can't Seattle look for a star and offer $8+? (or whatever we can't match)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nucksfollower1983 said:

yep, because offer sheets cost nothing in compensation, nothing at all. hell I dont know why other GM's dont do it. for the life of me I cant figure out why every top RFA doesnt get signed to an offer sheet. 

Thanks for a pointless response -- your post is just ignorant and adds no value :)

 

An offer sheets do get tendered, e.g., Montreal and Aho. all it takes is one team to offer EP 8.7 mil to screw a cap crunched team like the Canucks. 

 

The compensation is one 1st, one 2nd, and one 3rd. If that offer comes from a playoff contender, that first rounder will be in the 20's. 

 

Canucks will surely match any offer sheet to EP but if that happens, panic will ensue to become cap compliant in the offseason. 

 

Heck, if I'm Seattle, I'm putting in an offer sheet on EP.

 

 

 

 

  • Vintage 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

all signing are good at the time of the signing. the assumption goes like this. These people are NHL GMs so they might know something about the NHL player value.

 

"piss-poor player evaluation" if Benning is that bad explain to me how he drafts well.

Why don't you explain how he drafts well.  Outside of Boeser and Petterson, give me a good NHL player he has drafted that wasn't the obvious pick? Hughes and Hoglander were obvious picks. Good luck with the rest of his genius drafting.  He has not outdrafted the average NHL GM.  Do a little research on the other GM's around the league and their drafting.  Benning is dead average.  Not great, not bad.  Just in the middle of the pack.  Unfortunately for Canucks fans he is bad at every other aspect of GMing.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Nobody is offer sheeting Petey $9 million. Is there even one team that has the cap space to do it?  And no Ottawa and Detroit aren’t gonna do it. 

Why?  How do you know they won't?  Are you saying they couldn't use a player of Petterson's capability?  And also, after his bridge deal Petterson will be making at least 9 million a season.  Probably north of 11.  He is one of the best centres in the league.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Josepho said:

This is appeal to authority. A lot of NHL GMs are just random former players, I don't see why people who have spent their entire lives following the NHL can't be better or as good at evaluating signings as actual GMs. NHL managers are often terrible and make very predictable mistakes.

 

A likely reason that Benning drafts well is because you have an entire scouting department for the draft. As you can see in any of the mic'd up draft videos on the Canucks YouTube, he often just defers to Brackett and Weisbrod.

because knowledge is handed down from gm to assistant gm. scouts and capologists help them find players they are looking for.

 

do you have scouts?

  • Vintage 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The OP has a point,  and there is a precedent for this, JB did it with BB if you recall, got the cap down to 6 million and the CDC was losing its mind trying to figure out why he'd do that because "no way" was BB worth less then 7 on a long term deal.    
 

Later for those interested or curious, it came out both sides weren't even close on a long term deal, so JB moved on and sold the space.    Anyone on this site who thinks JB isn't operating with similar variables right now and is just screaming into a pillow over Pearson or whatever,  be prepared to find out the why if it later.   That deal was decent for any team - ours?  I didn't like it and have been asking the team to trade him on the CDC since last TDL.    However i can see his value, we can't afford an upgrade (yet), and the only two comps Hyman and Coleman have their own connections, low chance they'd come here unless we overpaid them.    Pearson is not overpaid, that part is a big joke.   I think flat cap has some thinking less cap - it means exactly that - FLAT cap.   Pearson took 500k less on his first UFA deal, taking him to 31 almost 32 big deal.  

 

Some have already made some insights that maybe Beagle is out next year.   Others have pointed out their isn't a NMC, so he can be dangled to Seattle, despite some posters saying they have agreement that won't happen but without giving a source (another CDCer isn't a source BTW).  

 

Back to BB.   That was an agonizing signing, his agent was way off.   If EP and QHs are already in negotiations, which is very plausible, JB might already know where they will end up or close to it anyways.   Barzal and AHO set the price for range  EP, i've explained why both these guys had better ELC deals on other threads, zero chance he gets more, i say less (and i might be wrong big deal).    QHs ... well he's an adventure in his own zone no real comps available.   Feel doing then as a pair makes sense,     

 

Also Ferland's money is available, if not he plays, ok either way.   And one roster guy goes to Seattle.   It isn't 17.4 - it's 22-26 available....that's enough to get it done.  

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, stuman491 said:

Why?  How do you know they won't?  Are you saying they couldn't use a player of Petterson's capability?  And also, after his bridge deal Petterson will be making at least 9 million a season.  Probably north of 11.  He is one of the best centres in the league.

 

He's got the potential to be one of the best C's in the league.   McDavid, Draisatl, Mckinnon, Point, Mathews, Crosby etc still have a strangle hold on the top c's and there is a big tier below that of which EP belongs in somewhere, let's see him get 80 points before we pay him like a super star.   

  • Hydration 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, stuman491 said:

Why don't you explain how he drafts well.  Outside of Boeser and Petterson, give me a good NHL player he has drafted that wasn't the obvious pick? Hughes and Hoglander were obvious picks. Good luck with the rest of his genius drafting.  He has not outdrafted the average NHL GM.  Do a little research on the other GM's around the league and their drafting.  Benning is dead average.  Not great, not bad.  Just in the middle of the pack.  Unfortunately for Canucks fans he is bad at every other aspect of GMing.

He's a little better then that (average), factually if you do take all the other GMs around the league and do a proper analysis,  based on ADP (or average draft position), he's around 8-9th league wide.  Fortunately because we drafted around the same (8-9) over a five year period, we ended up with a top three group of 21 and unders two years in a row.     People overrate picks.   It's not often anyone gets 3 players from a draft with a normal amount of picks.    One is expected, two is good, three is excellent. 

  • Hydration 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...