Well played Benning

[Chris12345]

9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Its still $1 Mill lower real cash than we would owe LE if we kept him on the books.  If all it does is make room for Podkolzin, or Lind's ELC?

 

I am good with dat! 

Oh yea I get that but no rev in July. Gamble and hope there's rev in the fall. Plus you are lengthening the problem.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Chris12345

[Crabcakes]

For a 6th forward, it's a safe an necessary move and he's reducing the overall cap hit for the team.

 

If Benning is going to be adding rookies to the line up, particularly in the top 6, he's going to need guys like Pearson in the line up.

 

Also, once players like Podkolzin and Hoglander are in the top 6 (and when things are back to normal cap wise), nobody is going to mind having 3.25 on the 3rd line.

 

 

 

 

[spook007]

12 hours ago, Josepho said:

So it's just bad luck that the vast majority of them didn't turn out and had nothing to do with Benning's piss-poor player evaluation or an incorrect assessment of what the team needed?

 

What would a signing have to do to be considered bad to you?

What would a signing have to do to be considered good to you?

[Josepho]

11 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

the bold part enough said.

 

And it is not appeal to authority. It is experiance

Benning's "experience" involves a $&!# ton of bottom 10 finishes, why would you trust that?

 

I can understand this point if an actual successful GM made this signing, but that isn't the case.

[spook007]

6 hours ago, stuman491 said:

Why don't you explain how he drafts well.  Outside of Boeser and Petterson, give me a good NHL player he has drafted that wasn't the obvious pick? Hughes and Hoglander were obvious picks. Good luck with the rest of his genius drafting.  He has not outdrafted the average NHL GM.  Do a little research on the other GM's around the league and their drafting.  Benning is dead average.  Not great, not bad.  Just in the middle of the pack.  Unfortunately for Canucks fans he is bad at every other aspect of GMing.

Think that Demko guy is pretty good as well, no? And that McCann boy plays decently as well? Hopefully Podz plays well and BFG may also be decent, if he comes back...after all he was in his first stint.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Think that Demko guy is pretty good as well, no? And that McCann boy plays decently as well? Hopefully Podz plays well and BFG may also be decent, if he comes back...after all he was in his first stint.

ugh.  Don't remind me.  Goes to the mixed bag at best the professional scouting of the team.  Home run's like Miller but huge swing & a miss with Gudbranson & Clendening.

[Ajax-]

8 hours ago, khay said:

Thanks for a pointless response -- your post is just ignorant and adds no value

 

An offer sheets do get tendered, e.g., Montreal and Aho. all it takes is one team to offer EP 8.7 mil to screw a cap crunched team like the Canucks. 

 

The compensation is one 1st, one 2nd, and one 3rd. If that offer comes from a playoff contender, that first rounder will be in the 20's. 

 

Canucks will surely match any offer sheet to EP but if that happens, panic will ensue to become cap compliant in the offseason. 

 

Heck, if I'm Seattle, I'm putting in an offer sheet on 

 

 

What is the draft pick compensation scale for this year?

The terms listed below include the average annual value of the offer sheet and the corresponding draft-pick compensation. For an offer sheet of six or seven years, the average annual value would be based on a five-year term:

$1,395,053 million or below -- No draft pick compensation

More than $1,395,053 to $2,113,716 -- third-round pick

More than $2,113,716 to $4,227,437 -- second-round pick

More than $4,227,437 to $6,341,152 -- First- and third-round picks

More than $6,341,152 to $8,454,871 -- First-, second- and third-round picks

More than $8,454,871 to $10,568,589 -- two first-round picks, one second-round pick and one third-round pick

More than $10,568,589 -- four first-round picks (can be spread over five-year period

Edited April 9, 2021 by AbrasiveAjax

[DSVII]

45 minutes ago, spook007 said:

What would a signing have to do to be considered good to you?

Personally, mainly that they are a positive value contract.

 

Are they performing at a rate better than or at least same as a similarly paid player in the league. I.e what is the expected performance of a 3 and 4 mil player. Performance should be measured, it's a results based league,  so you can say I'm very skeptical of signing people for just 'leadership'. Winning makes you're culture and you increase your odds to win by signing getting value from your players better than the other team.

 

And this is more of a gut check: If you waive the contract off the team,  how confident are you they pass through waivers, what are the chances another team picks them up?  

 

I'm not confident Motte and  will pass through waivers. But I am confident contracts like Baerschi, Beagle and Roussel will.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by DSVII

[Ballisticsports.]

14 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Benning will have tons of Cap space in 2022-23 but will be well pressed to sign players this season including EP and QH.

 

The Cap math clearly shows these 2 are not getting 10 mill plus so that is clearly off the table.

 

But what is more interesting is that Benning has decided to signed Demko and Pearson prior to signing both EP and QH. I call this a smart play. He is filling in the roster around his 2 young stars and showing them what it cost to do so. I say well played. Well played indeed. 

 

As the Cap dollars dwindle down and QH as no negotiation rights and EP just slightly more I for one consider this a Great play by Benning.

 

If EP where to get offer sheeted no doubt would Benning match but at the same time it would take a chunk of money away from QH. I can start seeing this play out now. 2-3 year bridge deal 2 years at 6-6.5mill or 3 years at 6.5-7m. Makes them the highest payed players on the team as should be but doesn't break the bank and they are still RFA after the contracts.

 

That brings us to 2022-23, Roussel Beagle Eriksson and Lu are off the books. With only Boeser to be re-signed. That make 2022-23 the year to compete for a cup

 

As I recall Benning did say this team should be competing in a couple of years.

 

 

 

 

Is it I that needs to "Get Smart" instead of JB?

.Ah yes, the old overpay the bottom 6 guys, guys on the bench, in the minors, or not playing at all ploy

   Create "Kaos" instead of keeping the Cap under "Control"

 

Overpay your bottom line players excuse because of being a bad team and needed them and now no team is interested in and you still have a losing record?

Now tell your best players, "Sorry it is not that i ran out of time signing you, i just ran out of money excuse"? - Brilliant

What a great plan if you are a star, to see middling players overpaid, and then have your boss try to underpay you

You call this Great if you are one of the stars and want me to be the face and promoting of this team?

 

JB just said another 2 years (maybe Linden was right after all) ? :0

Then why the rush to jeopardize Seattle knowing you can't match an offer sheet and they make EP the face of Seattle and a instant enemy rivalry of the Canucks

Why invest so much in guys that can be easily replaced cheaper and leave no flexibility in the 2 yrs you expect to compete (especially when he won't be in the plans at his age)

[DSVII]

Some interesting 2021 UFA comparables we can look at to see how well this deal ages in the offseason.

 

 

Player (2019/20 pts, age)

 

We signed:

Tanner Pearson (45 pts - 29 years old) - current deal: $3.75mil, extended $3.25 mil x 3

 

vs

 

Expiring UFAs for 2021
 

Jaden Schwartz (57 pts, 29 years old) Current Deal: $5.35 mil

Mike Hoffman (59 pts, 31 years old) Current Deal : $4 mil

Mikael Granlund (30 pts, 29 years old) Current deal : $3.75 mil

Joel Armia (30 pts, 29 years old) - Current deal: $2.6 mil

Zach Hyman (37 pts,  29 years old) -  Current deal : $2.25 mil

Blake Coleman (32 pts, 29 years old) - Current deal : $1.8 mil

Erik Haula (24 pts, 30 years old) Current Deal: $1.75 mil

Edited April 9, 2021 by DSVII

[spook007]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

ugh.  Don't remind me.  Goes to the mixed bag at best the professional scouting of the team.  Home run's like Miller but huge swing & a miss with Gudbranson & Clendening.

True, there are some misses, but I think people tend to forget, folks wouldn't sign in Vancouver, considering what was available at the time, unless top dollars and terms were agreed upon... Its the name of the game for bottom feeders, with nothing in their coffers... I 2 years times, when EP and QH becomes established players together with BH and Miller, it will be much easier to attract good players on reasonable deals. PS Don't really think of Clendening a huge miss...he was on a 2way contract worth $760.000 at the time. He was 3-4 years ahead of Forsling development wise, and the club needed a defender. That Forsling became the better player, nobody could fore see at the time... Gudbranasson was almost the defensive equivalent of Eriksson...His team mate sounded fairly upset at him leaving Florida, and the vast majority of fans here were ecstatic at the prospect of tough D-man, who could actually hurt people... The fact he struggled defensively came as a huge surprise to just about everybody, but I agree that is the GM's job to figure that out prior to signing players...

[Josepho]

The fact that Gudbranson sucked here came as a huge surprise to just about everybody except anyone who has a decent understanding of statistics.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, DSVII said:

Personally, mainly that they are a positive value contract.

 

Are they performing at a rate better than or at least same as a similarly paid player in the league. I.e what is the expected performance of a 3 and 4 mil player. Performance should be measured, it's a results based league,  so you can say I'm very skeptical of signing people for just 'leadership'. Winning makes you're culture and you increase your odds to win by signing getting value from your players better than the other team.

 

And this is more of a gut check: If you waive the contract off the team,  how confident are you they pass through waivers, what are the chances another team picks them up?  

 

I'm not confident Motte and  will pass through waivers. But I am confident contracts like Baerschi, Beagle and Roussel will.

 

 

True, but there has also been deals struck that were favourable,... Miller, Miller, Vanek, Dorsett (too bad he got injured), Schmidt, Hamonic, Benn, Myers (can be discussed), Leivo... Those were good signings. I get, what you're saying, but I think the signing of Beagle and Roussel were understandable, ad still consider Beagle a good signing, if for nothing else to help teach the young players to be professionals... again, yes they have been expensive signings, but the necessity depends on how you view it. If you think it doesn't make any difference, then by all means hire cheaper players, of which there are many, but if you want players from a cup winner to a bottom feeding team, it is always going to cost dollars and term...

I don't disagree that its been a mixed bag, but I don't agree the vast majority of his signings has been bad....

[spook007]

25 minutes ago, Josepho said:

The fact that Gudbranson sucked here came as a huge surprise to just about everybody except anyone who has a decent understanding of statistics.

Willie Mitchell was sad to see him leave Florida, and spoke highly of him.

 

Gudbranson, 24, spent the 2015.16 season with the Florida Panthers, collecting nine points (2-7-9) and 49 penalty minutes in 64 games. He also appeared in six playoff games. The Ottawa, Ontario native ranked third on the Panthers in hits (150), fourth in blocked shots (73) and fourth in average ice time per game (20:06). The 2010 3rd overall NHL draft pick ranked second on the Panthers and led Florida defencemen in average ice time in the 2016 playoffs (26:54) in addition to ranking second on the team in blocked shots (8).

 

On a team that amassed 103 points that season, his underlaying numbers can't have been that bad... And on top of that, He could swing them with the best... Something we STILL lack...

[nuk76]

How long do we have to wait before we get competitive? You Benning lovers are unreal. So we're supposed to let him screw up for another 2 yr and hope that he might get lucky and dump some of the horrible contracts. Vancouver fans love supporting bad GM's, Bad coach's and right now bad ownership. Do any of you expect us to be any better next year????

[DSVII]

34 minutes ago, spook007 said:

True, but there has also been deals struck that were favourable,... Miller, Miller, Vanek, Dorsett (too bad he got injured), Schmidt, Hamonic, Benn, Myers (can be discussed), Leivo... Those were good signings. I get, what you're saying, but I think the signing of Beagle and Roussel were understandable, ad still consider Beagle a good signing, if for nothing else to help teach the young players to be professionals... again, yes they have been expensive signings, but the necessity depends on how you view it. If you think it doesn't make any difference, then by all means hire cheaper players, of which there are many, but if you want players from a cup winner to a bottom feeding team, it is always going to cost dollars and term...

I don't disagree that its been a mixed bag, but I don't agree the vast majority of his signings has been bad....

I have no issue with these deals (except Myers but that can be debated), to me they represent another tier from Gagner , Roussel , Beagle, Eriksson, Del Zotto, Sbisa, Ferland, Baerschi. For every good deal you can find, there is a bad deal weighing it down. Yes every team has bad contracts, but how many are scratching $10 million off their team? And before you say Buffalo, how many teams are we hoping to catch up to and beat in the playoffs have this much just scratched off their roster? not injured, scratched.

 

Majority of signings isn't the way i look at this, but it's the proportional weight of those signings on the cap that concern me for productive and non-productive players, Loui, Ferland and Baerschi are only three contracts out of 48 (6%), but disproportionately represent 16% of our offseason cap, and partly the reason we didn't have space for Toffoli. 

 

I think Beagle is made redundant by Sutter, it's very telling that Washington was happy to let him walk and take on a cheaper Nic Dowd who we let walk. It was not a good bet imo considering he was already entering his mid 30s when that deal was struck.

 

Benning inherited a cheap $1 mil cup winning 4th line centre in Richardson too when he had this team, why did he let him walk for nothing? Yes it's a mixed bag, and mixed results don't get us to the promised land imo, we need to start getting value from our contracts. 

 

I just finished watching Chernobyl so this is my kneejerk analogy here haha . I feel like all these bad contracts is like the continual build up of xenon that isn't burning away fast enough in our reactor, building up, slowly poisoning our cap situation. The conditions that Benning have put in place (signalling he is willing to pay underperforming vets before core members, giving them above market prices with NTCs, aiming for a one year competitive window in 2023 but past that, UFA extensions for the core.) will lead to events where we start to lose balance and our cap situation explode. Benning has been tilting our cap situation more and more on a knife's edge since 2017 with these signings.

 

The concern here, is that I'm not convinced Benning is done adding more xenon into our Nuclear reactor without waiting for the waste to burn away first, creating conditions for an eventual explosion for our cap situation where all our UFAs will line up and demand raises and our team is weighed down by dead weight. All in the name of a one year window in 2023.

 

The margin for error is even smaller now in a flat cap world and I'd like to see a pattern of cheaper deals coming after Pearson (in the style of Boyd and Vesey for instance) to feel a little more reassured.

 

Btw watch chernobyl. Highly recommend :D

Edited April 9, 2021 by DSVII

[TheNewGM]

I was gonna make a thread.. the Pearson signing is another blunder and complete waste of cap space. The guy is CLEARLY DECLINING AND YOU LOCKED HIM IN FOR 3 YEARS.. god Benning is a terrible GM. good at drafting? or maybe just has good scouts.. Probly the worst GM in franchise history.

 

IF YOU USE REALITY AS YOUR MEASSURE. THE CANUCKS SUCK! FACT! STATS DONT LIE

 

Ive been watching this team since Bure played his first game. This is getting old.

Edited April 9, 2021 by TheNewGM

[TheNewGM]

Toffoli for 4m or pearson for 3.25 ??? LOL toffoli got more goals against us alone then Pearson has POINTS entire season.. awesome moves Benning.

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, DSVII said:

I have no issue with these deals (except Myers but that can be debated), to me they represent another tier from Gagner , Roussel , Beagle, Eriksson, Del Zotto, Sbisa, Ferland, Baerschi. For every good deal you can find, there is a bad deal weighing it down. Yes every team has bad contracts, but how many are scratching $10 million off their team? 

 

Majority of signings isn't the way i look at this, but it's the proportional weight of those signings on the cap that concern me for productive and non-productive players, Loui, Ferland and Baerschi are only three contracts out of 48 (6%), but disproportionately represent 16% of our offseason cap, and partly the reason we didn't have space for Toffoli. 

 

I think Beagle is made redundant by Sutter, it's very telling that Washington was happy to let him walk and take on a cheaper Nic Dowd who we let walk. It was not a good bet imo considering he was already entering his mid 30s when that deal was struck.

 

Benning inherited a cheap $1 mil cup winning 4th line centre in Richardson too when he had this team, why did he let him walk for nothing? Yes it's a mixed bag, and mixed results don't get us to the promised land imo, we need to start getting value from our contracts. 

 

I just finished watching Chernobyl so this is my kneejerk analogy here haha . I feel like all these bad contracts is like the continual build up of xenon that isn't burning away fast enough in our reactor, building up, slowly poisoning our cap situation. The conditions that Benning have put in place (signalling he is willing to pay underperforming vets before core members, giving them above market prices with NTCs, aiming for a one year competitive window in 2023 but past that, UFA extensions for the core.) will lead to events where we start to lose balance and our cap situation explode. Benning has been tilting our cap situation more and more on a knife's edge since 2017 with these signings.

 

The concern here, is that I'm not convinced Benning is done adding more xenon into our Nuclear reactor without waiting for the waste to burn away first, creating conditions for an eventual explosion for our cap situation where all our UFAs will line up and demand raises and our team is weighed down by dead weight. The margin for error is even smaller now in a flat cap world. I'd like to see cheaper deals coming after Pearson (in the style of Boyd and Vesey for instance) to feel a little more reassured.

 

Btw watch chernobyl. Highly recommend :D

Yes agree totally with regards to the Chernobyl series, both brilliant and shocking.

 

Lui was a total shocker... I actually was daft enough, too think he would be a good fit with the Sedins after their heroics at the Olympics... Man was I wrong...

Ferland, I don't feel so bad about, as he represents something, I really wish we had in our team. Tenacity like Motte but both able and willing to swing them as well... Unfortunately his health just couldn't match, so he's on LTIR so it doesn't hurt us too bad. 

Beagle won a cup the year before signing here. While Washington felt they easily could replace him with Dowd (They after all have another 20 players with rings), Benning likely felt he could bring some pedigree and knowledge to the group of players he was accumulating, so I understand that call as well... 

 

Yes managing the cap is line balancing on a knifes edge. I don't feel it looks as bad as it is portrayed as... In 2 years time we will hopefully have more ELC's entering on top of Podz and Lind, who I expect to make the team next season, if not full time then part of it. Rathbone or Woo and definitely Juolevi, so there will be cheap players coming in. Time will tell if there is enough to keep all of the top players, but so far they have been able to manage the cap ok, despite some serious concerns amongst fans, so I think he deserves the benefit of doubt.... 

[stawns]

31 minutes ago, TheNewGM said:

I was gonna make a thread.. the Pearson signing is another blunder and complete waste of cap space. The guy is CLEARLY DECLINING AND YOU LOCKED HIM IN FOR 3 YEARS.. god Benning is a terrible GM. good at drafting? or maybe just has good scouts.. Probly the worst GM in franchise history.

 

IF YOU USE REALITY AS YOUR MEASSURE. THE CANUCKS SUCK! FACT! STATS DONT LIE

 

Ive been watching this team since Bure played his first game. This is getting old.

Clearly declining?  Didn't have the best year of his career last season?