Well played Benning

[Dazzle]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Nobody is doing that.   An AHO offer sheet would be a kick to the balls though.   He hasn't earned that yet. 

I don't think an offer sheet would be worth it. Pettersson is good, but the price to pay for the Canucks would be extremely steep. This is, of course, assuming that Pettersson would sign that sheet. I don't think he would.

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I don't think an offer sheet would be worth it. Pettersson is good, but the price to pay for the Canucks would be extremely steep. This is, of course, assuming that Pettersson would sign that sheet. I don't think he would.

If EP gets 8.5 x 5 from anyone he's signing it and JB will be forced to make tough decision but i think i'd walk if I was him.   That buys a really good proven star in his prime.   Plus you get the first second and third.   Given how well we did without him ... yes i think he'd have to walk from that - doesn't even buy UFA years really. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

If EP gets 8.5 x 5 from anyone he's signing it and JB will be forced to make tough decision but i think i'd walk if I was him.   That buys a really good proven star in his prime.   Plus you get the first second and third.   Given how well we did without him ... yes i think he'd have to walk from that - doesn't even buy UFA years really. 

Even if that turned out to be the case, Jim Benning could still match it and we'd still have cap space. I'm SURE he'll be given the green light to buyout contracts in such a scenario. There is no way AQ will let Pettersson walk.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

The league would have to close to 14 billion over the next two years to make up for their losses...sure it could happen but doesn't seem likely. 

ok, ignore the facts, misconstrue what bettman said, and definitely don't read the cba or moa.

 

I have never seen anyone overestimate bettmans words and at the same time undervalue the contract which Bettman himself signed.

 

the upper limit has absolutely nothing to do with the escrow account, if the revenue goes above 3.3 billion the upper limit goes up.

 

basically as I understand it the only time a player owes money to the owners when regular season, and playoff gate revenue is in the negative.

 

so basically the equation is the overage/shortage of gate revenue -/+ (tv contracts +pre season games+all star game + concessions+merchandise+advertising none of these can be negative numbers) so basically gate revenue - (travel accommodations + arena costs + taxes + staffing) + (tv contracts +pre season games+all star game + concessions+merchandise+advertising)

 

2020/21 20% 

2021/22 14% if Preliminary HRR for the 2020/21 League Year equals or exceeds $3.3 Billion; 18% if Preliminary HRR for the 2020/21 League Year equals or is below $1.8 Billion; pro-rata rate in between $1.8 Billion and $3.3 Billion (e.g. Escrow Percentage of 16% if HRR is $2.55 Billion)

2022/23 10%

2023/24 6%

2024/25 6%

2025/26 6%

 

each year escrow is calculated independently based upon expected revenue after 2021/2022, and any shortfall is carried over to the subsequent year.

 

so assuming the players lose the max amount for 2020/2021 that would be the players share of HRR - 2525M = 500M  or 2525M*20%=500M

so for 2021/2022 if the players share breaks even, the escrow shortfall will be at 500M dollars starting the 2022/2023 season. 

only until the 2023/2024 season or the shortfall is less than 125M (whatever happens first) and all HRR revenue is more than 4.8B  will the league distribute the shortfall to the owners.

 

but seriously, escrow shortfall has nothing to with the upper limit

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Bad_BOI_pete]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

If EP gets 8.5 x 5 from anyone he's signing it and JB will be forced to make tough decision but i think i'd walk if I was him.   That buys a really good proven star in his prime.   Plus you get the first second and third.   Given how well we did without him ... yes i think he'd have to walk from that - doesn't even buy UFA years really. 

i think you are a EP40 hater the way you talk about him.

 

including playoffs ep40 has scored at 0.94ppg in his contract years.

including playoffs aho had scored at 0.81ppg in his contract years.

 

sure aho has better puck possession numbers, but other than that ep40 wins on every EV metric. aho 54.2% ep40 52% cf% and faceoffs aho 48% ep40 42%

 

gf% ep40 56.2% aho 54.2% 

on ice s% ep40 (11.4% first in the league) aho 8.3%

dangerous fenwick RC ep40 5.39 aho 1.01

penalties drawn/60 1.5 aho 0.94

 

pp aho sligthly outedges ep40 by 5.27 4.84

shootout ep40 38.9 % aho 23.2%

 

the best player in carolina is teravainen, for the canucks its ep40.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

i think you are a EP40 hater the way you talk about him.

 

including playoffs ep40 has scored at 0.94ppg in his contract years.

including playoffs aho had scored at 0.81ppg in his contract years.

 

sure aho has better puck possession numbers, but other than that ep40 wins on every EV metric. aho 54.2% ep40 52% cf% and faceoffs aho 48% ep40 42%

 

gf% ep40 56.2% aho 54.2% 

on ice s% ep40 (11.4% first in the league) aho 8.3%

dangerous fenwick RC ep40 5.39 aho 1.01

penalties drawn/60 1.5 aho 0.94

 

pp aho sligthly outedges ep40 by 5.27 4.84

shootout ep40 38.9 % aho 23.2%

 

the best player in carolina is teravainen, for the canucks its ep40.

 

Nope.   

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

ok, ignore the facts, misconstrue what bettman said, and definitely don't read the cba or moa.

 

I have never seen anyone overestimate bettmans words and at the same time undervalue the contract which Bettman himself signed.

 

the upper limit has absolutely nothing to do with the escrow account, if the revenue goes above 3.3 billion the upper limit goes up.

 

basically as I understand it the only time a player owes money to the owners when regular season, and playoff gate revenue is in the negative.

 

so basically the equation is the overage/shortage of gate revenue -/+ (tv contracts +pre season games+all star game + concessions+merchandise+advertising none of these can be negative numbers) so basically gate revenue - (travel accommodations + arena costs + taxes + staffing) + (tv contracts +pre season games+all star game + concessions+merchandise+advertising)

 

2020/21 20% 

2021/22 14% if Preliminary HRR for the 2020/21 League Year equals or exceeds $3.3 Billion; 18% if Preliminary HRR for the 2020/21 League Year equals or is below $1.8 Billion; pro-rata rate in between $1.8 Billion and $3.3 Billion (e.g. Escrow Percentage of 16% if HRR is $2.55 Billion)

2022/23 10%

2023/24 6%

2024/25 6%

2025/26 6%

 

each year escrow is calculated independently based upon expected revenue after 2021/2022, and any shortfall is carried over to the subsequent year.

 

so assuming the players lose the max amount for 2020/2021 that would be the players share of HRR - 2525M = 500M  or 2525M*20%=500M

so for 2021/2022 if the players share breaks even, the escrow shortfall will be at 500M dollars starting the 2022/2023 season. 

only until the 2023/2024 season or the shortfall is less than 125M (whatever happens first) and all HRR revenue is more than 4.8B  will the league distribute the shortfall to the owners.

 

but seriously, escrow shortfall has nothing to with the upper limit

 

Just relax.    Do the math.   How many teams are in the league last year and what was the revenue?   This year?   50/50 split is the deal -  Bettman and Daly keep bringing this up, and the cap isn't going up until the owners get their share, they also keep saying that.   Put me on ignore if you want.     They were short a billion on the revenue required for a fair split, it ALL went to the players. This year it's going to be 2-3 billion - ALL to the players again.   Again making assumptions.    .. choose to do with it what you want Bettman "it doesn't look like their will be a significant cap increase over the duration of the current CBA"   This season plus three more.   2009 the cap went up 100k.    Making back 3-3.5 billion for the owners, isn't going to happen over night.    They all have agreed to this method (NHL and NHLPA keeping the paycheques coming in and accepting that the cap won't go up until they are whole) simply by playing - given the alternative was shutting it down and making zero, it's easy to understand why.   Seem pretty fair to me.   The owners will have lost 45ish%  of their share last year and up to 90% this year....  Better hope the revenue isn't less the 5.2B next year or yet another year of them not being whole.  

 

The CBA is about cost certainty and revenue sharing.    Look how the league dealt with and amended anything in the past that "isn't in the spirit of the CBA".... just because it wasn't in.   Do you honestly think they will increase the cap before the owners get their share back?  

Edited April 15, 2021 by IBatch

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Nope.   

must be nice living in your reality.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Just relax.    Do the math.   How many teams are in the league last year and what was the revenue?   This year?   50/50 split is the deal -  Bettman and Daly keep bringing this up, and the cap isn't going up until the owners get their share, they also keep saying that.   Put me on ignore if you want.     They were short a billion on the revenue required for a fair split, it ALL went to the players. This year it's going to be 2-3 billion - ALL to the players again.   Again making assumptions.    .. choose to do with it what you want Bettman "it doesn't look like their will be a significant cap increase over the duration of the current CBA"   This season plus three more.   2009 the cap went up 100k.    Making back 3-3.5 billion for the owners, isn't going to happen over night.    They all have agreed to this method (NHL and NHLPA keeping the paycheques coming in and accepting that the cap won't go up until they are whole) simply by playing - given the alternative was shutting it down and making zero, it's easy to understand why.   Seem pretty fair to me.   The owners will have lost 45ish%  of their share last year and up to 90% this year....  Better hope the revenue isn't less the 5.2B next year or yet another year of them not being whole.  

 

The CBA is about cost certainty and revenue sharing.    Look how the league dealt with and amended anything in the past that "isn't in the spirit of the CBA".... just because it wasn't in.   Do you honestly think they will increase the cap before the owners get their share back?  

sorry my bs meter is too full, and i'm having a hard time understanding your "BUT, BUT,BUT,BUT Bettman" said so logic. good day

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

must be nice living in your reality.

It's awesome thanks for asking.   20 plus 14-18 plus 6 plus 6 plus 6 adds up to 52-56% .... or around 1.5 billion.   League is expected to lose 3-3.5 ... so when Bettman says he doesn't see a significant cap increase over the duration i believe him.   And 71 pages of the CBA isn't exactly a fun read - it's obvious they planned for this - if the players still owe the remainder goes into the next CBA as well.     

 

Don't assume anything.   Did you want me to tell you about the players get a two jersey allowance? Or how business class is in there?  Or a right to their own surgeon?  Or rental car allowances, mortgage/rent rebate?   I've read it BOI. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by IBatch

[Bad_BOI_pete]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's awesome thanks for asking.   20 plus 14-18 plus 6 plus 6 plus 6 adds up to 52-56% .... or around 1.5 billion.   League is expected to lose 3-3.5 ... so when Bettman says he doesn't see a significant cap increase over the duration i believe him.   And 71 pages of the CBA isn't exactly a fun read - it's obvious they planned for this - if the players still owe the remainder goes into the next CBA as well.     

LOL, OK. im done with your lies, good day.

[canuck2288]

Dim Jim will be gone this post season and so will Green

 

finally we can hopefully turn this crap show around after a 7 year disaster 

[Guest]

Barzal got 7 mil...  Elias shouldn't be getting more then 7.5/year.  

 

Quinn has really disappointed me this year...  he's really not playing like a 5 mil/year d-man this year but we've all witnessed the magic last year so he'll probably squeeze out 6 mil/year.  

 

Yes, Benning's playing 4D chess here. 

[Guest]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:11 PM, IBatch said:

If EP gets 8.5 x 5 from anyone he's signing it and JB will be forced to make tough decision but i think i'd walk if I was him.   That buys a really good proven star in his prime.   Plus you get the first second and third.   Given how well we did without him ... yes i think he'd have to walk from that - doesn't even buy UFA years really. 

Hmmm, you think that Elias would sign an offer sheet to go live in Buffalo for 5 years?  I'm not sure about that. 

[Timråfan]

6 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Hmmm, you think that Elias would sign an offer sheet to go live in Buffalo for 5 years?  I'm not sure about that. 

The danger lies in Calgary. I have no idea if that place is nice to live but they have at least ten swedish players. 6 in the roster. 

So Benning have to get his head together. 

 

Petey showed his worth in the playoffs. 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Hmmm, you think that Elias would sign an offer sheet to go live in Buffalo for 5 years?  I'm not sure about that. 

Buffalo would have to move Eichel or something...but no i don't think he'd be too keen on that.

 

   It would be a bad position for JB to be in though, with flat cap and some hindsight, i'm not sure MTL would have maybe not made that sheet in the first place to AHO.  Based on PGP and actual points, EP is 19th-mid 20's over his three years for C's.   Close to some really great players.   Of those only four have had their second contracts recently ... and only Barzal and PLD (noteworthy C's) have signed since the pandemic.   At least JB has the space to do both on medium term or long bridges.   I'm hoping he signs for 6.5-7 x 6...Feel he's not going to do any worse,  posts and another injury might have saved the team some money, but also recognize that's probably too low.  

 

And also feel he has the potential to be a top five C in the league but he's got a ways to go yet.   Signing him based on all of this is tricky. Overpaying for something he hasn't done yet isn't supposed to be the way second contracts work.    Pay him like a top twenty C because he's earned that, but not compared to UFAs who are on their legacy deals either, those are usually overpayments at the time of signing.

 

  Tavares made 5 until he cashed in.    That system works.   The league can't manage flat cap and second contracts being out of whack and overpaying UFAs...7 is a fair number without any UFA years.   Barzal probably set his range, would be tough to negotiate more for his agent, and would be tough for JB to negotiate much less too.   Barzal plays a solid two-way game, Trotz beat that into all his players and it for sure affected his production (check out how far the teams GAA went down after just one year, it's remarkable, and that was without Tavarwes!)

 

He doesn't have a Miller on his line to shelter him, and plays more games.     Sheltered, with a different coach and Tavares Barzal had one of the best rookie seasons the last decade.    Feel they are good comps.   EP probably has more upside.   Pretty much a wash.   Bet Isles fans would like to keep Barzal, and Van fans want to keep EP if a one for one trade was on the table.    AHO is a level up so far, but is also pretty close. 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Buffalo would have to move Eichel or something...but no i don't think he'd be too keen on that.

 

   It would be a bad position for JB to be in though, with flat cap and some hindsight, i'm not sure MTL would have maybe not made that sheet in the first place to AHO.  Based on PGP and actual points, EP is 19th-mid 20's over his three years for C's.   Close to some really great players.   Of those only four have had their second contracts recently ... and only Barzal and PLD (noteworthy C's) have signed since the pandemic.   At least JB has the space to do both on medium term or long bridges.   I'm hoping he signs for 6.5-7 x 6...Feel he's not going to do any worse,  posts and another injury might have saved the team some money, but also recognize that's probably too low.  

 

And also feel he has the potential to be a top five C in the league but he's got a ways to go yet.   Signing him based on all of this is tricky. Overpaying for something he hasn't done yet isn't supposed to be the way second contracts work.    Pay him like a top twenty C because he's earned that, but not compared to UFAs who are on their legacy deals either, those are usually overpayments at the time of signing.

 

  Tavares made 5 until he cashed in.    That system works.   The league can't manage flat cap and second contracts being out of whack and overpaying UFAs...7 is a fair number without any UFA years.   Barzal probably set his range, would be tough to negotiate more for his agent, and would be tough for JB to negotiate much less too.   Barzal plays a solid two-way game, Trotz beat that into all his players and it for sure affected his production (check out how far the teams GAA went down after just one year, it's remarkable, and that was without Tavarwes!)

 

He doesn't have a Miller on his line to shelter him, and plays more games.     Sheltered, with a different coach and Tavares Barzal had one of the best rookie seasons the last decade.    Feel they are good comps.   EP probably has more upside.   Pretty much a wash.   Bet Isles fans would like to keep Barzal, and Van fans want to keep EP if a one for one trade was on the table.    AHO is a level up so far, but is also pretty close. 

Well, they try to model Petey to a 2way NHL C wich means limiting his creative process. 
So I believe Peteys agent knows this and want Benning to pay for the remodelling. 
Is this remodelling something Barzel and Aho did also?

[Gurn]

20 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, they try to model Petey to a 2way NHL C wich means limiting his creative process. 
So I believe Peteys agent knows this and want Benning to pay for the remodelling. 
Is this remodelling something Barzel and Aho did also?

How many cups did Steve Yzerman win when he scored over 100 points a season?  ............................         0

How many did he win when he scored less than 100 points      .......................................                                  3

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

How many cups did Steve Yzerman win when he scored over 100 points a season?  ............................         0

How many did he win when he scored less than 100 points      .......................................                                  3

Ok, so you talk about points.

I’m not sure what that has to do with money and Benning etc. 
Team friendly contracts seems to give more cups also. 
So the issue here is Benning. 

[Gurn]

4 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Ok, so you talk about points.

I’m not sure what that has to do with money and Benning etc. 
Team friendly contracts seems to give more cups also. 
So the issue here is Benning. 

You talked about E.P.'s" creative process" being limiited by being turned into a two way player, I gave an example of a former offensive jugernaut, that used to get more points than Petey has ever had; being turned into a two player that won 3 cups.