Severe Cap Issues Next Year

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Question on Ferland/injuries.

 

Can the Canucks make a decision on him in July? I'm not sure the money opens up until October so it's almost like a black hole?

I don't really get it completely, but really was trying to say is we either get Ferland, as in he miraculously heals, or we get to sign someone else to fill his spot.   Any armchair gm'ing should include that.  We are allowed to go 10% over the cap during the off-season, JB will make his signings with that in mind.   Then he goes on the LTIR, all it means is one game, at the very worse, we run a shortened bench, several teams (TO once) have had to do that juggling the cap to fit.   So when folks say we have 17.4 left to sign everyone - they need to add Ferland, either as a player already on the roster, or his cap.   His cap makes the most sense.   Then add league minimum to 6 as well for the ED...Hence the 22-26 range is what JB is really working with..without any buyouts which i really hope he doesn't do. 

 

Edit:  The team had enough funds to either keep Pearson or Sutter.   This in a way tells us as fans which direction he's going.   Both sides had their pro's and con's, but at least Pearson is healthy most of the time career wise, and he's proved himself as a legit second liner with Horvat, not great, not bad, and would improve our third line IF Podz comes in and gets his spot.    The deal itself is fair, and Covid flat. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

 

A few things:

 

1) Never EVER assume that you are smarter than an NHL GM or an entire front office.   You are not.    I am not, the poster next to me is not, no one on HF Canucks are, no one on 650 Sportsnet are, etc., etc.     It's very likely that they are seeing something that none of us are, or that they are privy to certain information that we do not have access to......which leads me to my "speculative" next points.

 

2) It's entirely possible that management knows that Beagle is done and will be LTIRetired, and hence, giving us the $$$ needed to sign Pearson.

 

3) It's entirely possible that the Canucks have a plan in place as far as Eriksson goes (i.e. one year left after this + only 2 million in real dollars owed = tradeable contract and/or easy to coax into retirement.   Bottom line = 6 million off the books).        

 

My message to you and my fellow Canucks fans is as follows:    

 

Before we pass judgement on this signing, lets at least see how the summer plays out.

 

p.s.  

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin

Hoglander-Gaudette-Virtanen OR Pearson-Gaudette-Virtanen OR Podkolzin-Gaudette-Virtanen = potentially decent 3rd line with 

Motte-Boyd-MacEwen (or Roussel)

 

Looks to me like Benning is trying to create three lines that have a reasonable chance at producing consistent offence.    

 

That's too much logic for the site DIR lol.  

But correct.   I learned awhile ago to wait and see when it comes to JB, he rarely does what i think he will do, and somehow comes out smelling like roses when digging around the pile of manure he's both created for himself and from previous management.   Didn't like the Miller trade at first glance.   Didn't like most of his first picks each draft either. 

 

JB always had enough going into this off season to keep one of Pearson or Sutter.   To me it's a fair deal, well really it's a darn good deal, it's fair only because it's flat cap.  And yes none of us are privy to what's actually going on in the dressing room or in his office.    I've made dozens of posts over the last 12 months that we should trade Pearson because his stock is high.     It didn't happen and i'm sure there are good reasons for it.    JB had one of his better off seasons last year.   Did he go out and sign 80 million and throw our pool in the garbage to make room?   No he didn't.   A these posters crying over TT is actual comedy for me, i've never seen a career middle six guy get so much love for such a sort time.   Reminds me of the Sundin signing because of how many seem to think he made a big impact on the Sedins (all he did was tell them to play like it's a regular season game and not to worry about it so much... great advice lol).   I truth Messier made a much bigger impact on Naslund.   A real one really, but nobody brings that up because it's Messier - get the crucifix's out, he's the devil.  

 

Point is, fans get emotional over all sorts of minor things when it comes the Canucks.   In reality, without any cap issues, we'd all be praising JB right now instead.     For sure some money was wasted in the bottom six.   Could just as easily been wasted on another LE type, the league is jammed packed with underperforming star players.   Factually it IS you middle six players that make the entire system run.   That and the ELC guys and that's it.    For example compare McDavid who for sure deserves his pay cheque, against JV's production last year.   Did McDavid produce 18 goals and assists for every 3 of his 12.5 million?  Only Gretzky could do that, and Mario. 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

13 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

They must have a plan.

Benning addressing the media today

[IBatch]

Our cap issues are not "severe".   Do we have them?  Yes we do.   And will every year from now until this core is done.   SJ Wilson and Dubas have both spoken about this as GMs - basically said the same things too - to paraphrase:  " If your don't have cap issue's, your not trying hard enough".     Doesn't mean you have to throw it out either and coming from Dubas it's kind of funny.   One things for sure, nobody on here is qualified to do his job.   If you were you wouldn't be wasting your time on this site lol.    DIR said it best.   We need to be patient, not freak out over every single deal he makes.     Most good prospects are in McEwen range, they don't come like Hogs, Demko etc very often. 

[DSVII]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Our cap issues are not "severe".   Do we have them?  Yes we do.   And will every year from now until this core is done.   SJ Wilson and Dubas have both spoken about this as GMs - basically said the same things too - to paraphrase:  " If your don't have cap issue's, your not trying hard enough".     Doesn't mean you have to throw it out either and coming from Dubas it's kind of funny.   One things for sure, nobody on here is qualified to do his job.   If you were you wouldn't be wasting your time on this site lol.    DIR said it best.   We need to be patient, not freak out over every single deal he makes.     Most good prospects are in McEwen range, they don't come like Hogs, Demko etc very often. 

Wilson is screwed, but Dubas has impressed me so far with his offseasons. Each year was supposed to be the cap hell for him but he's made it work. 

 

He bit the bullet and paid to get rid of Marleau to have cap to sign depth, and fit TJ Brodie to balance out the D core, swung a low risk trade for Jack Campbell who is now their cheap starter, and has consistently signed cheaper fillers on the bottom six. his worst mistake is Tavares but he's maneuvering around his overpaid stars quite nicely and still icing a competitive product (made playoffs  3 of the last 4 seasons in a tougher division. 

 

 

[Fanuck]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

     Most good prospects are in McEwen range, they don't come like Hogs, Demko etc very often. 

This is actually something that has been largely overlooked I feel.  To me, this signing is in part, an indication of where JB must view some of the kids in the minors.  Unless he's planning a sign/trade with Pearson, then planning on having him around for the next 3 years must mean he doesn't see any prospects close to stepping in and filling that void anytime soon.  I know there are a LOT of users here who have already penciled Podz into certain spots of the line-up as early as this year, but to me nothing is guaranteed, nothing until it actually happens.   

[kanucks25]

33 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Factually it IS you middle six players that make the entire system run.   That and the ELC guys and that's it.    For example compare McDavid who for sure deserves his pay cheque, against JV's production last year.   Did McDavid produce 18 goals and assists for every 3 of his 12.5 million?  Only Gretzky could do that, and Mario. 

lol

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Are these the same fans and pundits that thought Calgary had one of the best offseasons by locking up potential Vezina candidate Markström to 6x6 and top 4 shutdown damn Tanev to 4x4.5? Just curious.

Calgary did get better in the offseason, at least on paper. But I'm sure given the age of the players and the contracts they were given, not everybody was on board.

 

Not sure how that's relevant, though? That response is pretty standard for Benning UFA signings, and for good reason.

[-SN-]

 

Phew, no problem, can close thread. 

[Johnny Torts]

I think they will figure it out. Its their job.

 

Cap space isnt going to stop me from grabbing a beer and watching every single game for the rest of my life.

[spook007]

10 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Were these same people “confused” when we decided to proceed forward with Demko instead of Markstrom?   Or when we acquired Nate Schmidt for a 3rd?

 

I look forward to the “confused” reactions of many people when they see what our opening night roster looks like sometime in October 2022.  

Exactly... Or when Benning acquired Miller...

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Not sure if there was a thread that addressed our goaltending but there was one for Schmidt.

 

Mostly positive, as it should be.

 

Your point?

Maybe we should actually give Benning the benefit of the doubt given that this team and management clearly has the 2022-2023 season in mind.   

 

That's my point.     

 

Benning clearly seems bullish on Hoglander and Podkolzin which is why he felt comfortable in letting Toffoli walk.   

 

Pearson might be starting to decline, but he's the exact type of guy that one would want on the 3rd line given his solid defensive play.     

 

He also wouldn't look completely out of place in a top 6 role for a finite amount of time incase of injuries.   

[kanucks25]

4 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Maybe we should actually give Benning the benefit of the doubt given that this team and management clearly has the 2022-2023 season in mind.   

Every Canucks fan has that season in mind, we really have no other choice.

 

That doesn't qualify Benning, me, you or anyone for being GM.

 

All you're doing here is looking at the balance sheet and seeing that we have a lot of money off the books in Summer '22. It's not rocket science.

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

That's too much logic for the site DIR lol.  

But correct.   I learned awhile ago to wait and see when it comes to JB, he rarely does what i think he will do, and somehow comes out smelling like roses when digging around the pile of manure he's both created for himself and from previous management.   Didn't like the Miller trade at first glance.   Didn't like most of his first picks each draft either. 

 

JB always had enough going into this off season to keep one of Pearson or Sutter.   To me it's a fair deal, well really it's a darn good deal, it's fair only because it's flat cap.  And yes none of us are privy to what's actually going on in the dressing room or in his office.    I've made dozens of posts over the last 12 months that we should trade Pearson because his stock is high.     It didn't happen and i'm sure there are good reasons for it.    JB had one of his better off seasons last year.   Did he go out and sign 80 million and throw our pool in the garbage to make room?   No he didn't.   A these posters crying over TT is actual comedy for me, i've never seen a career middle six guy get so much love for such a sort time.   Reminds me of the Sundin signing because of how many seem to think he made a big impact on the Sedins (all he did was tell them to play like it's a regular season game and not to worry about it so much... great advice lol).   I truth Messier made a much bigger impact on Naslund.   A real one really, but nobody brings that up because it's Messier - get the crucifix's out, he's the devil.  

 

Point is, fans get emotional over all sorts of minor things when it comes the Canucks.   In reality, without any cap issues, we'd all be praising JB right now instead.     For sure some money was wasted in the bottom six.   Could just as easily been wasted on another LE type, the league is jammed packed with underperforming star players.   Factually it IS you middle six players that make the entire system run.   That and the ELC guys and that's it.    For example compare McDavid who for sure deserves his pay cheque, against JV's production last year.   Did McDavid produce 18 goals and assists for every 3 of his 12.5 million?  Only Gretzky could do that, and Mario. 

Good post iBatch.

 

My guess is that Benning clearly sees Hoglander and/or Podkolzin being locks for the top 6 which is why he may have felt comfortable walking away from Toffoli.   

 

Pearson is also the exact type of guy that one would want on their 3rd line (i.e. solid two way game, should be able to chip in offensively against inferior 3rd line opposition, and can also play higher up in the line-up for a finite amount of time in case of injuries).   Pearson has also won a cup before and has leadership skills.    Lets take a look at the next year's projects line-up:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Pearson-Gaudette-Virtanen.      Pearson is a clear upgrade over Roussel on that 3rd line and brings enough defensive savviness in order to accommodate for Gaudette, and enough offensive ability to bring out something in Virtanen in a 3rd Lline capacity.  

 

Whether it's Hoglander, Pearson, or Podkolzin on that 3rd line playing alongside Gaudette and Virtanen, the bottom line is that we will likely have a 3rd line that will be able to generate at least some consistent offense.  

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Every Canucks fan has that season in mind, we really have no other choice.

 

That doesn't qualify Benning, me, you or anyone for being GM.

 

All you're doing here is looking at the balance sheet and seeing that we have a lot of money off the books in Summer '22. It's not rocket science.

 

Yes and no.   

 

What a lot of people don't realize, at least in my opinion, is that management has had this year circled for quite sometime now (2018?  2019?).      The Canucks didn't just bring in guys like JT Miller and Tyler Myers to "go for it" in 19/20.    Furthermore, it's of no coincidence that all/most of our transitional contracts will be off the books before the start of the 2022 season (Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson, etc.).   

 

Management clearly had 2022-2023 marked as the starting point for our window, and also had the assumption that there would be peaks and valleys before reaching October 2022 (i.e. pushing for the playoffs at certain points to get the kids some experience, letting some popular vets walk and having 'ready' kids take their roles, etc).   It's the ultimate "ends means" approach in which peaks and valleys are expected.   Why 650 sportsnet, HF "Canucks", and many other media members/fans can't see two feet in front of their noses is beyond me.   Forest for the trees.   

[kanucks25]

4 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

 

Yes and no.   

 

What a lot of people don't realize, at least in my opinion, is that management has had this year circled for quite sometime now (2018?  2019?).      The Canucks didn't just bring in guys like JT Miller and Tyler Myers to "go for it" in 19/20.    Furthermore, it's of no coincidence that all/most of our transitional contracts will be off the books before the start of the 2022 season (Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson, etc.).   

 

Management clearly had 2022-2023 marked as the starting point for our window, and also had the assumption that there would be peaks and valleys before reaching October 2022 (i.e. pushing for the playoffs at certain points to get the kids some experience, letting some popular vets walk and having 'ready' kids take their roles, etc).   It's the ultimate "ends means" approach in which peaks and valleys are expected.   Why 650 sportsnet, HF "Canucks", and many other media members/fans can't see two feet in front of their noses is beyond me.   Forest for the trees.   

Mmk so what was the plan between 2014 to 2018/19?

[TheNewGM]

16 hours ago, AK_19 said:

With the new signings of Demko ($5mil) and Pearson ($3.25mil), we are under some serious problems with icing a decent team next year. Next year we have $17,473,121 million in cap space with 15 players signed. Capfriendly states its only 12 players signed but I'm assuming they aren't counting currently injured players.

 

Signed Next Year:

 

Forwards

 

Boeser         $5.87 mil

Horvat          $5.50 mil

Miller            $5.25 mil

Pearson.      $3.25 mil

Roussel        $3.00 mil

Beagle.        $3.00 mil

Virtanen       $2.55 mil

Motte           $1.25 mil

Hoglander  $0.90 mil

Macewan   $0.80 mil

 

Not counting Ferland here

 

 

Defensemen

 

Myers        $6.00 mil

Schmidt.    $5.95 mil

 

Goalies

 

Demko.     $5.0 mil

Holtby       $4.3 mil

 

 

Line up as of now is:

 

Pearson Horvat Virtanen

Hoglander Miller Boeser

Roussel Macewan Motte

_______ Beagle _______

 

Schmidt Myers

_____ _____

_____ _____

 

Demko

Holtby

 

RFAs we have are:

 

Pettersson

Hughes

Gaudette

Tryamkin

Joulevi

 

Pettersson and Hughes will be signed. Because of only having 17 million to work with and a number of roster spots that still need to be filled up, the need to give them bridge contracts is pretty certain. Based on comparables, I think they will be signed to:

Pettersson 7mil x 3. Basically the Barzal contract

Hughes 6mil x 3/4. This one is tougher because most teams lock up young elite dmen for longer terms. Mcavoy was the closest I can find for 5mil but Hughes is better.

 

I recognize these numbers are likely on the lower side, if anything. That leaves us with 4-5 million with excellent contracts to our core players.

 

I don't know where to find the numbers but I believe 1 million is also reserved for bonus overages from this year.

 

So we've now got 3-4 million and 7 roster spots to fill. Even if they all took minimum wage, this is basically impossible without significant trades and/or use of buyouts. What is definitely clear is there is no way Edler or Sutter are returning or any UFA of any significance can be signed next off-season.

 

Just to fit our team under the cap, a number of these players need to be waived (I don't think they are tradeable without losing assets):

 

Eriksson - Saves us only 1 mil from his current cap hit on the taxi squad. It also means we carry a cap hit for future years for such a small pay-off.

Holtby - Saves us 3.8 million. I hated the contract from the beginning but I'm glad it was structured in a way to be an effective buyout. Despite mentions here of him being potentially targeted by Seattle, I don't see it. There are at least three goalies that will be exposed better than Holtby. 

Beagle/Roussel - would save us each 1.5 mil next year. Not much in savings when considering we also still need to replace their roster spots with at least an 800k player. 

Virtanen - saves us 2.5 mil. 

 

Honestly, Virtanen and Holtby may both be required here and the only ones worthwhile for the buyout. Those two buyouts help us fill in the rest of our roster at least internally:

 

Gaudette - 1.0 mil

Tryamkin - 1.5 mil

Joulevi - 900k

Rathbone -900k

Lind - 900k

Gadjovich - 900k 

Podkolzin -900k

Chatfield -800k

Dipietro - 800k

 

That leaves us with a roster of:

 

Miller-Pete-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin

Motte-Gaudette-Hoglander

Roussel-Beagle-Macewan

 

Lind, Gadjovich

 

Hughes-Tryamkin

Joulevi-Schmidt

Rathbone-Myers

 

Chatfield

 

Demko

Dipietro

 

The only way I see us re-signing Edler/Sutter or a decent UFA is if Seattle picks up Myers in addition to the buyouts suggested. I'm expecting a very rookie-heavy roster next season. Personally, this looks godawful for next season. 

 

EDIT: Forgot Goalies

the canucks are getting WORSE despite drafting superstars for the last 5 years...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[RWMc1]

5 hours ago, AK_19 said:

OP here. To the comments about Ferland, I'm already assuming he's on LTIR to be favourable to Benning. We're that tight WITH him on LTIR.

Your numbers do not reflect that.

[Patel Bure]

36 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Mmk so what was the plan between 2014 to 2018/19?

 

1) Insulate incoming youth with veteran players that can play in the tougher roles while the kids develop

2) Roster spots and positions and roles on the team were to be EARNED by the youth and not given.    Make sure the kids are ready or close to being ready for certain roles before they supplant a vet .   

3) Veterans with renowned leadership skills and/or veterans that were successful in the past can 'show the ropes' to the kids and help create good on ice and off-ice habits even if these vets aren't quite at the same level that they once were.   

4) Get the kids to compete hard every night regardless of where they are in the standings.   PUSH for a playoff spot and come into each season expecting to PUSH and COMPETE (which is NOT the same thing as "trying to compete for a cup" or "be a lock for the playoffs" like so many of the dolts at HF Canucks and media members seem to believe).   

 

Guys like Markstrom, Demko, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Gaudette, Virtanen, Motte, MacEwen, Hughes, Juolevi, Stecher, and Hutton all benefitted from the presence of veterans in terms of their development (either in the form of being kept on the farm a little longer, or playing in protected minutes/certain roles at the NHL level while the vets took on tougher match-ups).   

Edited April 9, 2021 by DarkIndianRises

[RWMc1]

13 minutes ago, TheNewGM said:

the canucks are getting WORSE despite drafting superstars for the last 5 years...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I hope Canucks fans aren't gullible enough to turn on our team because of people like this. Would an actual Canucks fan gloat like this? Especially over a weird unusual season where many factors have to be ignored to believe the idiotic whining points.

 

I've heard media clowns from here, and other cities, repeat verbatim some of the whining points on here. Are you really going to let the likes of Cox or Sukurass poison your minds to our team? I hope not.

 

Remember, these same whiners screamed for Pedan and Jordan Subban. They wanted Goldy and Boucher on our top line. They wanted our team to show pride and beat up the other team when we lost. They will always find a whining point. They will say "we" and "us" and claim to be Canucks fans while only complaining about Canucks while smooching on other teams butts. (mostly toronto)