Severe Cap Issues Next Year

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, DSVII said:

You can if you find a backup not worth $4.3 million. It could have been done. Just wasn't the top of the priorities list for JB

Yep, could have signed me to be the back up, I'd do it for nhl minimun.

Have to really hope that Demko doesn't get hurt and miss even a single game though.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DSVII said:

You can if you find a backup not worth $4.3 million. It could have been done. Just wasn't the top of the priorities list for JB

True, but Demko had never been a starting goaltender in his NHL career, plus he has had two severe concussions and other long term injuries in the past.  

 

Murray got 6.25 mil 

Marky got 6 mil 

Binnington got 6 mil 

Jake Allen signed for 2.875 mil but he was acquired in a trade 

Corey Crawford got 3.9 mil 

 

Holtby getting 4.3 mil for only a two year deal was actually a decent bargain and insurance against having Mikey DiPietro as your starting goalie in case of a Demko injury.  

 

Easy to say now in hindsight that we didn't need Holtby. 

[Guest]

Just now, gurn said:

Yep, could have signed me to be the back up, I'd do it for nhl minimun.

Have to really hope that Demko doesn't get hurt and miss even a single game though.

I actually...  agree with you Gurn  

[DS4quality]

How much did Domingue sign for? 

[coolboarder]

You didn't take Expansion draft into account.  If they choose to take Holtby, one of D (Myers) or one of F (3rd or 4th line), it also takes off the books so one extra player coming off the books, guaranteed.   

[DownUndaCanuck]

If I look at the signings we have to make, against JP Barry no less, JB is going to have to move some guys and money around. That being said, here's some very conservative contracts so even with them, let's see how the cap situation looks:

 

- Re-sign Sutter 2M contract (say 2 years)

- Re-sign Boyd (or equivalent) 800K deal

- Re-sign Edler 3.25M (1 year)

- Re-sign Hamonic 2.5M (2 years but I'd be happy with longer term + more cash)

- Re-sign Gaudette 900K (bridge deal of sorts)

- Re-sign Juolevi 1M (similar bridge deal)

- Re-sign Chatfield 800k

- Re-sign Pettersson 6.5M (very conservative, say if it's only a short deal)

- Re-sign Hughes 6M (again, very conservative)

 

Boeser (5.87) - Pettersson (6.5) - Miller (5.25)

Pearson (3.25) - Horvat (5.5) - Hoglander (0.89)

Virtanen (2.5) - Sutter (2) - Roussel (3)

Motte (1.25) - Boyd (0.8) - MacEwan (0.8)

Podkolzin (0.89)

 

Hughes (6) - Hamonic (2.5)

Juolevi (1) - Myers (6)

Edler (3.25) - Schmidt (5.95)

Chatfield/Rathbone (0.8)

 

Demko (5)

Holtby (4.3)

 

That's 13 forwards, 7 defence and 2 goalies for a grand total of 72.5M. Add on Eriksson's 4.87M (if we have him on the taxi squad or equivalent next years, in minors or bought out) and Luongo's 3M and we're up to 80.37M. Of course if Beagle is healthy, that's an extra 2.2M compared to Boyd which brings up right up against the cap, but the cap hit might be $86M next season, and we're not to forget that one of those players (hopefully one with a big juicy cap hit like Roussel) will get plucked by Seattle, making way for a cheaper kid/contract.

 

All in all I think JB will have around 6M to add to the contracts above if he wants. He'll realistically probably have to dish out an extra 1M to Petey and Hughes and Edler but that still gives him a lot of wiggle room in all fairness.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Redditors are on average, 12 year olds...  keep that in mind if you're trying to engage in conversations there.  Great memes though!  

I'd probably take them over some of the boomers here.  They don't take themselves seriously and that makes them pretty level-headed.

[Alienhuggyflow]

9 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

Why would I become an Oilers fan?  There is really bizarre mentality here where fans are expected to have blind loyalty in management.  How does that make any sense?  Honestly the hardest hockey fans this season are Sabres fans.  I'd say they've had the worst 20 years but their fanbase is loyal to the team.  But they are frustrated AF with the team's mismanagement.  Fair or unfair, any struggling team in any sport will have calls for managers or coaches to get sacked.  But you guys... you're acting like cult-members.

 

As for Aquilini, you are correct.  Benning could let Petey and Huggy walk unqualified and he still wouldn't get fired and you two would still talk about his "plan".

I think that people defending Benning are mostly the older crowd who don't have knee-jerk reactions to every single move and some that haven't eleven been made yet. Or how about the complete farce that was Judd Brackett? Now because Ian Clark hasn't been re-signed the Athletic and that putz Drance create more fake news.

Take the Holtby and Pearson signings, we all hoped Demko was gonna run with the ball but having a guy like Holtby was the right call, if Demko struggled or had gotten hurt, the options out there were slim and putting that kind of pressure on Mikey, or Arthur would have been flat out stupid.

Pearson re-signing was met with the usual crowd slamming Benning, a day after we learn Beagle is done making Pearsons deal a wash, nevermind the fact we have zero insight what moves Benning planned regarding LE, Rousell, Holtby, etc.

The toxic HF crowd that sadly seem to show up here whenever a story needs that classic HF stank applied to it.

 

Benning made the choice to move on from Marky and Tanev for Nate and Demko, that was the right choice, TT was a flat cap casualty and the people saying he should have let Jake and Gaudette walk after both breaking out last season are out to lunch considering TT has averaged 24 goals a season over his career,  and isn't the kind of player this team needs and when he's eating up 4.5 in cap space not scoring which makes him, useless the pitchforks would have been out for Benning. Pretty much screwed either way, which is par for the course. 

Not singling you out but I come here because even the Benning critics for the most part act like they are over 12, HF is full of children who's testes haven't even dropped yet posting like hockey is run like a friggen video game and that any player over 25 should be in the KHL.

[Alienhuggyflow]

33 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I'd probably take them over some of the boomers here.  They don't take themselves seriously and that makes them pretty level-headed.

You know there's a whole group after baby boomers and before millennials right?

Anyone who prefers the maturity level of kids, well that says more about you than them IMO. And it's not about them taking themselves seriously, it's about having intellect to see the big picture and to be able realize there are plenty of things were not privy to so no point looking like dumbasses every time our GM makes a move that the media or the haters spin for their own agenda.

[DSVII]

4 hours ago, gurn said:

Yep, could have signed me to be the back up, I'd do it for nhl minimun.

Have to really hope that Demko doesn't get hurt and miss even a single game though.

Well we don't need to rush you too much, someone's gotta keep Utica's seat warm!

 

 

4 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

True, but Demko had never been a starting goaltender in his NHL career, plus he has had two severe concussions and other long term injuries in the past.  

 

Murray got 6.25 mil 

Marky got 6 mil 

Binnington got 6 mil 

Jake Allen signed for 2.875 mil but he was acquired in a trade 

Corey Crawford got 3.9 mil 

 

Holtby getting 4.3 mil for only a two year deal was actually a decent bargain and insurance against having Mikey DiPietro as your starting goalie in case of a Demko injury.  

 

Easy to say now in hindsight that we didn't need Holtby. 

No, but we were at least betting on him to be 1A and 1B. So more along the lines of

 

Mike Smith - $1.5 million

Ryan Miller - $1 million

Aaron Dell - $800k

Mike Hutchinson - $725k

 

I'm sure we can still replicate our crappy March with these guys and still give Demko the room to grow. And we still have DiPietro waiting in the wings.

Call me a contrarian here, but I think in today's league, the best teams are ones who allocate most of their cap efficently to Defense and Offense rather than spending $6+ mil plus on their goaltending. 2018 caps with Holtby being a recent exception. Even last year, The Lightning had won with Vasilevskiy and a cap hit of $3.5 mil.

 

The point is, it could have been done Cap wise, but Benning had other priorities. 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by DSVII

[AK_19]

5 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I just did the math and we will have a little bit over 20 million in cap space.  Not a big difference, but I think you're missing something in your numbers there. 

You may be correct, I took the number from Capfriendly but I'm also not seeing how we end up with 17ish mil.

[canuktravella]

13 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

Why would I become an Oilers fan?  There is really bizarre mentality here where fans are expected to have blind loyalty in management.  How does that make any sense?  Honestly the hardest hockey fans this season are Sabres fans.  I'd say they've had the worst 20 years but their fanbase is loyal to the team.  But they are frustrated AF with the team's mismanagement.  Fair or unfair, any struggling team in any sport will have calls for managers or coaches to get sacked.  But you guys... you're acting like cult-members.

 

As for Aquilini, you are correct.  Benning could let Petey and Huggy walk unqualified and he still wouldn't get fired and you two would still talk about his "plan".

  ya bennjng is amazing 

[DSVII]

20 minutes ago, AK_19 said:

You may be correct, I took the number from Capfriendly but I'm also not seeing how we end up with 17ish mil.

Ferland counts against the cap until Day 1 of the season before we shuffle him to LTIR. We are allowed to go 10% over the cap in the offseason so it is more like 20ish. But that's where the 17 mil comes from. 

 

It could be worth exploring making a deal with Seattle to pick Holtby if the squeeze becomes too much, and of course, buyouts. 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by DSVII

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

If I look at the signings we have to make, against JP Barry no less, JB is going to have to move some guys and money around. That being said, here's some very conservative contracts so even with them, let's see how the cap situation looks:

 

- Re-sign Sutter 2M contract (say 2 years)

- Re-sign Boyd (or equivalent) 800K deal

- Re-sign Edler 3.25M (1 year)

- Re-sign Hamonic 2.5M (2 years but I'd be happy with longer term + more cash)

- Re-sign Gaudette 900K (bridge deal of sorts)

- Re-sign Juolevi 1M (similar bridge deal)

- Re-sign Chatfield 800k

- Re-sign Pettersson 6.5M (very conservative, say if it's only a short deal)

- Re-sign Hughes 6M (again, very conservative)

 

Boeser (5.87) - Pettersson (6.5) - Miller (5.25)

Pearson (3.25) - Horvat (5.5) - Hoglander (0.89)

Virtanen (2.5) - Sutter (2) - Roussel (3)

Motte (1.25) - Boyd (0.8) - MacEwan (0.8)

Podkolzin (0.89)

 

Hughes (6) - Hamonic (2.5)

Juolevi (1) - Myers (6)

Edler (3.25) - Schmidt (5.95)

Chatfield/Rathbone (0.8)

 

Demko (5)

Holtby (4.3)

 

That's 13 forwards, 7 defence and 2 goalies for a grand total of 72.5M. Add on Eriksson's 4.87M (if we have him on the taxi squad or equivalent next years, in minors or bought out) and Luongo's 3M and we're up to 80.37M. Of course if Beagle is healthy, that's an extra 2.2M compared to Boyd which brings up right up against the cap, but the cap hit might be $86M next season, and we're not to forget that one of those players (hopefully one with a big juicy cap hit like Roussel) will get plucked by Seattle, making way for a cheaper kid/contract.

 

All in all I think JB will have around 6M to add to the contracts above if he wants. He'll realistically probably have to dish out an extra 1M to Petey and Hughes and Edler but that still gives him a lot of wiggle room in all fairness.

Good post. Just like last summer there's certainly work to be done but it's hardly the impending doom the usual suspects are making it out to be.

 

I think people really need to wait and see what happens at the ED, buyouts trades etc this summer before freaking out (Ha!).

 

For example...We trade/package Virtanen out, buyout Eriksson (almost guaranteed IMO) Beagle is on LTIR, and Myers gets selected in the ED and our much feared 'cap issues' are non-existent. I also feel like we might waive/buyout/trade Roussel as he just hasn't been the same player since his knee injury.

 

I'd also love to upgrade Sutter but any of those better guys available via UFA are also going to cost more term and cap... Another option may be trade (particularly with the ED creating a pressure point for other teams). We wait and see... Otherwise Sutter is likely our cheapest, best and shortest term solution there (whether people like it or not).

 

And then yes, you hope one of Lind/Jasek can out compete say Graovac, Boyd etc or similar for that 4C spot. 

 

Assuming Myers does get selected, re-up Hamonic and Edler for a 1-2 years at $3-$4m each +/-, bring Tryamkin back and you get something like:

 

Unsheltered lines:

Miller, Pettersson, Boeser 

Pearson, Horvat, Podkolzin

Motte, Sutter/'other', MacEwan

Sheltered line:

Hoglander, Lind/Jasek/Graovac/Boyd, Gaudette

 

a Bailey/Hawrlyuck/Garovac/Boyd etc as 13th

 

Hughes, Hamonic

Edler, Schmidt

Juolevi, Tryamkin

 

Rathbone, Chatfield as spares with Rathbone and OJ swapping in/out.

 

Demko, Holtby

 

Really not that scary.

Edited April 12, 2021 by aGENT

[Patel Bure]

On 4/9/2021 at 8:37 PM, Bob.Loblaw said:

So the general consensus you got from this re-signing... is that fans are happy with Benning today?  Really?  You're gonna say that with a straight face?

 

Now now, let's not try to argue on technicalities.

 

Benning, along with the rest of the fanbase, has no choice but to try and compartmentalize the losses.  "Look at Tanev, Markstrom, Stecher vs Schmidt, Demko, Hamonic..." We replaced a reliable core with other players.  Schmidt and Hamonic are doing okay, but recognize that our team has been miserable to watch.  Say what you want about scheduling (which is a valid excuse), but everyone except Boeser and Demko have been out of form.  The players are underperforming.  I'd even say Travis Green was pretty close to getting fired.

 

I said before the past is not important.  The distant past doesn't matter (Luongo the one exception), but remember that these difficult decisions all stem from the choices Benning made.  We cannot afford any depth on our forwards or defencemen because we already have a bunch of overpaid forwards and defencemen!  For every player we lost, we have an albatross contract that's stuck on Vancouver's payroll.  Can we afford to fill out our roster after re-signing Petey and Huggy?  I reckon Benning will do something silly and go wild in free agency again.

All/most of these “albatross” contracts will be off the books before October 2022 which has been management’s plan for quite some time now (ie once they realized that Pettersson was the real deal).

[Fleech]

12 hours ago, DSVII said:

You can if you find a backup not worth $4.3 million. It could have been done. Just wasn't the top of the priorities list for JB

They did exactly that, problem is they signed him for two years. 

[Josepho]

12 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

All/most of these “albatross” contracts will be off the books before October 2022 which has been management’s plan for quite some time now (ie once they realized that Pettersson was the real deal).

If Benning signs an obviously declining Pearson to a deal going into the 2022-2023 season, that pretty obviously isn't the plan.

 

He's not going to flip a switch and seems to sign several bad contracts every year. Furthermore, agents know they have him by the balls at this point and can get what they want out of him.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Josepho

[Josepho]

 

17 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

I think that people defending Benning are mostly the older crowd who don't have knee-jerk reactions to every single move and some that haven't eleven been made yet. Or how about the complete farce that was Judd Brackett? Now because Ian Clark hasn't been re-signed the Athletic and that putz Drance create more fake news.

It's so &^@#ing disingenuous to call any criticism towards Benning "knee-jerk", especially considering he's been an awful GM doing predictably dumb $&!# for literally 7 years.

 

Why is the Brackett situation a "farce"? We don't know yet, we've literally had one draft since he left (where we had very few picks, none of which have legitimately done well). It's objectively very concerning when your goalie coach still isn't here this close to his contract expiring, I don't know how you can call the fact that he still doesn't have a new deal "fake news".

 

Quote

Take the Holtby and Pearson signings, we all hoped Demko was gonna run with the ball but having a guy like Holtby was the right call, if Demko struggled or had gotten hurt, the options out there were slim and putting that kind of pressure on Mikey, or Arthur would have been flat out stupid.

The options weren't slim, we could've signed literally anyone for cheaper. Look at Holtby's numbers prior to this season, they were absolute garbage. Someone like Aaron Dell was available very cheaply and had actually played decently over the last few years.

 

Quote

Pearson re-signing was met with the usual crowd slamming Benning, a day after we learn Beagle is done making Pearsons deal a wash, nevermind the fact we have zero insight what moves Benning planned regarding LE, Rousell, Holtby, etc.

The toxic HF crowd that sadly seem to show up here whenever a story needs that classic HF stank applied to it.

It doesn't matter if cap is opening up for this move, it's a dumb signing because Pearson has been terrible for the last calendar year (25 points in 68 games since the start of the 2020 calendar year despite often playing high in the lineup with Horvat and on the PP). Benning clearly hasn't learned from his mistakes about overpaying for pedigree instead of recent performance/production -- that's a dangerous level of stupidity. It's so hard to take him seriously when he blames everything/one else in press conferences and then does $&!# like this.

 

Quote

Benning made the choice to move on from Marky and Tanev for Nate and Demko, that was the right choice, TT was a flat cap casualty and the people saying he should have let Jake and Gaudette walk after both breaking out last season are out to lunch considering TT has averaged 24 goals a season over his career,  and isn't the kind of player this team needs and when he's eating up 4.5 in cap space not scoring which makes him, useless the pitchforks would have been out for Benning. Pretty much screwed either way, which is par for the course. 

24 goals per season is better than anything Jake or Gaudette has done for their entire career. Sure, if Toffoli isn't scoring then it's a bad contract. But he's a good player, he is scoring. You can literally apply this type of reasoning to any contract -- it's the GM's job to figure out which players are likely to maintain their production.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Josepho

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, Josepho said:

If Benning signs an obviously declining Pearson to a deal going into the 2022-2023 season, that pretty obviously isn't the plan.

 

He's not going to flip a switch and seems to sign several bad contracts every year. Furthermore, agents know they have him by the balls at this point and can get what they want out of him.

Pearson might be in decline, but he's by no means a washed up 4th line calibre player.        

 

Pearson still plays a strong two way game and should be able to produce offensively on a 3rd line capacity IF he has a decent center.  Aside from bolstering our 3rd line, Pearson should still be able to fill in on the top 6 for a finite amount of time incase of injuries.  

 

Pearson-[NEWCENTER]-Virtanen has the potential to be a pretty solid 3rd line in my opinion, but I do believe that an upgrade over Gaudette, Boyd, and Sutter will be required here.   

[189lb enforcers?]

TDL done.

Any cap wrangling will be done in the offseason.

 

Nothing like leaving it until the last minute to do a lot of contact work. 
 

Hope he somehow wins at this.