[Trade] Canucks trade Adam Gaudette to Blackhawks for Matthew Highmore

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I have no problem with trading Gaudette. Just not a fan of tanking a guys value before doing it.

 

Miller-Boeser need a high level playmaker on their line more than a grinder type. Miller is good at retrieving pucks but his playmaking is sometimes spotty.

 

Highmore hustles and is willing to battle on the boards. I wouldn't say he digs out pucks and gets them to teammates all that much though. He actually loses a fair number of his board battles if people are being objective. Or he pokes pucks further down in the offensive zone and usually turns them back over. And he is really not much of a playmaker. He goes to the net though which is a bonus.

 

If Highmore is on a scoring line next year it means our team is still not deep enough offensively to be competitive. As a 4th line guy? Sure, I like his game better than most of our bottom 6 guys tbh.

I don't believe Vancouver tanked Gaudette's value. He needs to take responsibility for his own performances (or lack of) and the impact those performances have on his own value. And I'm sure he does. He was given plenty of opportunity in Vancouver. Unfortunately he is a player that requires sheltering to succeed, and the team could not afford to keep sheltering him season after season. He needed to sink or swim, and he needed to prove it this season.

 

I am personally glad that we moved on from Gaudette when we did. I wish him all the best. But no need to eek out what is plainly obvious. Wish we did the same and moved on from Virtanen after the playoffs last year, when he did not step up to the challenge, despite being dubbed a "playoff" type player. He was invisible except for one game.

 

Highmore is only in the top 6 at the moment due to the long injury list, Virtanen's leave of absence, and the fact that Vesey did not show well when given the opportunity. He has stepped up quite nicely but its not permanent. Nothing more to it than that. I think Highmore can be a decent 4th liner or 13th forward next season. 

 

[Me_]

4 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I have no problem with trading Gaudette. Just not a fan of tanking a guys value before doing it.

 

Miller-Boeser need a high level playmaker on their line more than a grinder type. Miller is good at retrieving pucks but his playmaking is sometimes spotty.

 

Highmore hustles and is willing to battle on the boards. I wouldn't say he digs out pucks and gets them to teammates all that much though. He actually loses a fair number of his board battles if people are being objective. Or he pokes pucks further down in the offensive zone and usually turns them back over. And he is really not much of a playmaker. He goes to the net though which is a bonus.

 

If Highmore is on a scoring line next year it means our team is still not deep enough offensively to be competitive. As a 4th line guy? Sure, I like his game better than most of our bottom 6 guys tbh.

“Miller-Boeser need a high level playmaker on their line more than a grinder type. Miller is good at retrieving pucks but his playmaking is sometimes spotty.”

I feel like they need a sick playmaker... I wonder if the Canucks have someone who could take that role... maybe a super talented Swede?

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Me_

[wallstreetamigo]

4 hours ago, Me_ said:

“Miller-Boeser need a high level playmaker on their line more than a grinder type. Miller is good at retrieving pucks but his playmaking is sometimes spotty.”

I feel like they need a sick playmaker... I wonder if the Canucks have someone who could take that role... maybe a super talented Swede?

 

I never said they didnt lol. I was just pointing out that a grinder type isnt what they need.

 

To be honest, Horvat and Hoglander could use a playmaker on their line too.

[wallstreetamigo]

6 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I don't believe Vancouver tanked Gaudette's value. He needs to take responsibility for his own performances (or lack of) and the impact those performances have on his own value. And I'm sure he does. He was given plenty of opportunity in Vancouver. Unfortunately he is a player that requires sheltering to succeed, and the team could not afford to keep sheltering him season after season. He needed to sink or swim, and he needed to prove it this season.

 

I am personally glad that we moved on from Gaudette when we did. I wish him all the best. But no need to eek out what is plainly obvious. Wish we did the same and moved on from Virtanen after the playoffs last year, when he did not step up to the challenge, despite being dubbed a "playoff" type player. He was invisible except for one game.

 

Highmore is only in the top 6 at the moment due to the long injury list, Virtanen's leave of absence, and the fact that Vesey did not show well when given the opportunity. He has stepped up quite nicely but its not permanent. Nothing more to it than that. I think Highmore can be a decent 4th liner or 13th forward next season. 

 

I never said Gaudette wasnt responsible for his own results. But role and opportunity make a huge difference there too and that is not the players decision.

 

I dont understand why people think Gaudette was suddenly much worse than last year. The only thing that changed all that much is pucks werent going in the net. His play wasnot demonstrably worse.

 

He was just in a role that didnt fit him or his game. Not every top 6 player has to be a defensive master. Thats a fallacy. The best defense comes from controlling the puck offensively. If you have the puck, they dont. 

 

If you need proof, watch the Florida-Tampa game yesterday. The chances generated by both sides, the speed of attacking, and the zone entries makes Canucks dump and chase games look like peewee hockey.

[BigTramFan]

7 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I never said Gaudette wasnt responsible for his own results. But role and opportunity make a huge difference there too and that is not the players decision.

 

I dont understand why people think Gaudette was suddenly much worse than last year. The only thing that changed all that much is pucks werent going in the net. His play wasnot demonstrably worse.

 

He was just in a role that didnt fit him or his game. Not every top 6 player has to be a defensive master. Thats a fallacy. The best defense comes from controlling the puck offensively. If you have the puck, they dont. 

 

If you need proof, watch the Florida-Tampa game yesterday. The chances generated by both sides, the speed of attacking, and the zone entries makes Canucks dump and chase games look like peewee hockey.

I don't think Gaudette was any worse, but the point is that he didn't improve. And he doesn't look any better in Chicago (yet).

 

You are right about the puck not going in. His shooting % dropped considerably this season, from 11-12% to about 7%. But the biggest drop in production was his assists, going from 12 assists in 2019-20 to 3 assists in 2020-21. This does not scream a puck control or possession game to me - a corsi of mid-40% throughout his career also supports this.

 

The way you talk about him is almost assuming he is a top 6 player and its just that the Canucks didn't give him a chance to show it. Perhaps you need to consider that he may not be good enough to be in the lineup of a good NHL team at all.

Edited May 18, 2021 by BigTramFan

[wallstreetamigo]

47 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

I don't think Gaudette was any worse, but the point is that he didn't improve. And he doesn't look any better in Chicago (yet).

 

You are right about the puck not going in. His shooting % dropped considerably this season, from 11-12% to about 7%. But the biggest drop in production was his assists, going from 12 assists in 2019-20 to 3 assists in 2010-21. This does not scream a puck control or possession game to me - a corsi of mid-40% throughout his career also supports this.

 

The way you talk about him is almost assuming he is a top 6 player and its just that the Canucks didn't give him a chance to show it. Perhaps you need to consider that he may not be good enough to be in the lineup of a good NHL team at all.

The linemayes he was typically with have an impact on the puck possession stuff too though. Dump and chase requires the ability to effectively recover pucks. The Canucks are more dump and turnover the puck. The style doesnt fit the players very well. When combined with a collapsing, passive D zone style, its eady to see why the Canucks struggle by giving up a ton of $&!#s and goals.

 

I dont know if Gaudette can be a solid top 6 player or not. I just think it would have been pretty low risk for the Canucks to figure that out or at least see if it would be possible rather than shoehorning him in as a 3rd line center.

[EternalCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

I don't think Gaudette was any worse, but the point is that he didn't improve. And he doesn't look any better in Chicago (yet).

 

You are right about the puck not going in. His shooting % dropped considerably this season, from 11-12% to about 7%. But the biggest drop in production was his assists, going from 12 assists in 2019-20 to 3 assists in 2010-21. This does not scream a puck control or possession game to me - a corsi of mid-40% throughout his career also supports this.

 

The way you talk about him is almost assuming he is a top 6 player and its just that the Canucks didn't give him a chance to show it. Perhaps you need to consider that he may not be good enough to be in the lineup of a good NHL team at all.

I'm curious if anyone has a record of all assists compiled by Gaudette?

 

My impression of Gaudette's game and his production in 2019-2020 was that he is relatively proficient at producing scoring chances, primarily for himself.  He does have the speed to create some chances, and he does find soft areas where he gains scoring chances.  What I don't recall as much is Gaudette carrying the puck and finding the open man as much.  I don't mean to be overly critical of Gaudette but just sharing this observation.  The ability to create chances with speed and knack for finding soft areas is a valuable skills in and of itself.  He would probably have more goals this season had he buried a few more of those chances.  I just never really got the impression that Gaudette would really make a great C.  I think his strengths definitely made him more likely to find success as a winger but for whatever reason, it just never worked out.

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I'm curious if anyone has a record of all assists compiled by Gaudette?

 

My impression of Gaudette's game and his production in 2019-2020 was that he is relatively proficient at producing scoring chances, primarily for himself.  He does have the speed to create some chances, and he does find soft areas where he gains scoring chances.  What I don't recall as much is Gaudette carrying the puck and finding the open man as much.  I don't mean to be overly critical of Gaudette but just sharing this observation.  The ability to create chances with speed and knack for finding soft areas is a valuable skills in and of itself.  He would probably have more goals this season had he buried a few more of those chances.  I just never really got the impression that Gaudette would really make a great C.  I think his strengths definitely made him more likely to find success as a winger but for whatever reason, it just never worked out.

I think to a lot of people right from the start it was pretty clear his future in the NHL was more suited to the wing. 

[Dazzle]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:11 AM, wallstreetamigo said:

I never said Gaudette wasnt responsible for his own results. But role and opportunity make a huge difference there too and that is not the players decision.

 

I dont understand why people think Gaudette was suddenly much worse than last year. The only thing that changed all that much is pucks werent going in the net. His play wasnot demonstrably worse.

 

He was just in a role that didnt fit him or his game. Not every top 6 player has to be a defensive master. Thats a fallacy. The best defense comes from controlling the puck offensively. If you have the puck, they dont. 

 

If you need proof, watch the Florida-Tampa game yesterday. The chances generated by both sides, the speed of attacking, and the zone entries makes Canucks dump and chase games look like peewee hockey.

Yeah, you can really tell that there is disconnect between the coaches. The transition game that the Canucks use is quite poor. Some of the results may be attributed to lower skilled players,  but the clumsy, short passes in the defensive zone seems to satisfy a fetish of doing that, rather than being practical. Passes can fail in all sorts of ways, which has led to the Canucks team being hemmed in by their own faults.

[*Buzzsaw*]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:45 PM, Dazzle said:

Yeah, you can really tell that there is disconnect between the coaches. The transition game that the Canucks use is quite poor. Some of the results may be attributed to lower skilled players,  but the clumsy, short passes in the defensive zone seems to satisfy a fetish of doing that, rather than being practical. Passes can fail in all sorts of ways, which has led to the Canucks team being hemmed in by their own faults.

Canucks don't have a transition game... they don't have a game through the neutral zone and their entry game is 90% shoot it in with the occasional lone unsupported foray which usually ends poorly.

 

There is no puck support after entry and no system to distribute the puck after entry.

 

These are all Green's design... he simplifies the Canuck game to the point it is easy to predict and kill the limited offensive threats it produces.

 

The rare chances at even strength are generated by physical play along the boards and behind the net, but those most often result only in shots from the point... rarely do we see players gaining the area in front of the net in possession.

 

Last year the Power Play made up for a lot of the failures 5 on 5, but this year other teams took less penalties knowing if they avoided them they'd rarely see even strength goals scored against them.

 

Green's O-system is a 1 trick dog... not good enough for the sophisticated defenses other NHL level coaches can create.

[Dazzle]

53 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks don't have a transition game... they don't have a game through the neutral zone and their entry game is 90% shoot it in with the occasional lone unsupported foray which usually ends poorly.

 

There is no puck support after entry and no system to distribute the puck after entry.

 

These are all Green's design... he simplifies the Canuck game to the point it is easy to predict and kill the limited offensive threats it produces.

 

The rare chances at even strength are generated by physical play along the boards and behind the net, but those most often result only in shots from the point... rarely do we see players gaining the area in front of the net in possession.

 

Last year the Power Play made up for a lot of the failures 5 on 5, but this year other teams took less penalties knowing if they avoided them they'd rarely see even strength goals scored against them.

 

Green's O-system is a 1 trick dog... not good enough for the sophisticated defenses other NHL level coaches can create.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you Buzzsaw. I hate watching the mindless plays the players are directed to make, as well as the excessively cute passes in the defensive zone for breakouts. The PP is absolutely crap. I don't understand why/how the players are so hesitant to shoot. Also, i don't understand why Green's brand of hockey often (not always) involves getting heavily outshot. We saw this in the LV series, where he was obviously outcoached beyond oblivion, but Demko kept Vancouver in it.

[Dazzle]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:24 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

I think to a lot of people right from the start it was pretty clear his future in the NHL was more suited to the wing. 

If so, then Gaudette REALLY didn't have a spot on Vancouver.

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

If so, then Gaudette REALLY didn't have a spot on Vancouver.

Sure he did, especially after EP went down.

 

I would have put Gaudette in a top 6 winger role over Vesey, Motte, Hawryluk, etc that the Canucks used there every day of the week. Those players generated next to nothing offensively. And Gaudette, despite his flaws, was still actuslly pretty good at generating offensive chances this year.

[EternalCanuckFan]

On 5/17/2021 at 4:24 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

I think to a lot of people right from the start it was pretty clear his future in the NHL was more suited to the wing. 

I believe you're correct.  It was worth seeing if Gaudette could try to make it a C in the NHL but yes, he probably could have been better utilized on wing.

[HomeBrew]

10 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you Buzzsaw. I hate watching the mindless plays the players are directed to make, as well as the excessively cute passes in the defensive zone for breakouts. The PP is absolutely crap. I don't understand why/how the players are so hesitant to shoot. Also, i don't understand why Green's brand of hockey often (not always) involves getting heavily outshot. We saw this in the LV series, where he was obviously outcoached beyond oblivion, but Demko kept Vancouver in it.

Green's system is about limiting quality chances while giving away perimeter shots all day long. If done effectively with sound defenders, the only goals being scored would likely be screened or deflected shots. This is was Chicago used to do to us back in the Sedin era. They kept us to the outside and we struggled hard to develop any quality chances. Green actually impressed me in last years playoffs though - he showed he could adapt. This year is a different story as we are giving up quality chances all over the place - many being two on ones, or breakaways. 

[Me_]

56 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Green's system is about limiting quality chances while giving away perimeter shots all day long. If done effectively with sound defenders, the only goals being scored would likely be screened or deflected shots. This is was Chicago used to do to us back in the Sedin era. They kept us to the outside and we struggled hard to develop any quality chances. Green actually impressed me in last years playoffs though - he showed he could adapt. This year is a different story as we are giving up quality chances all over the place - many being two on ones, or breakaways. 

You are right. This is a Hughes story.

[oldnews]

10 hours ago, HomeBrew said:

Green's system is about limiting quality chances while giving away perimeter shots all day long. If done effectively with sound defenders, the only goals being scored would likely be screened or deflected shots. This is was Chicago used to do to us back in the Sedin era. They kept us to the outside and we struggled hard to develop any quality chances. Green actually impressed me in last years playoffs though - he showed he could adapt. This year is a different story as we are giving up quality chances all over the place - many being two on ones, or breakaways. 

I agree in general - but in response to the last line, I'd point out that most of the high-danger/quality chances against this year - particularly most of the costly odd man rush goals against, at least early in the seaon - were primarily poor puck moving decisions imo - giveaways - that there is next to no way to 'defend'

The last 17 post outbreak games or whatever it was - were with half a replacement lineup, extremely young, inexperienced lineup, with no time to practice, many of them borderline parachuted into an exhausted M.A.S.H. lineup....there were some sloppy performances/nights - however on the other hand there were also the two vitcories over Toronot, two over Edmonton - really, at least half a dozen excellent peformances in there (where I expected very little) - and another handful of games they were in / or held up reasonably well.  I'm not sure how fair it is to judge coaching staffs in circumstances where they have very limited ability to coach/practice, etc.  When this team is healthy, and reasonably rested - I think his coaching quality is evident.

[Gnarcore]

16 hours ago, oldnews said:

I agree in general - but in response to the last line, I'd point out that most of the high-danger/quality chances against this year - particularly most of the costly odd man rush goals against, at least early in the seaon - were primarily poor puck moving decisions imo - giveaways - that there is next to no way to 'defend'

The last 17 post outbreak games or whatever it was - were with half a replacement lineup, extremely young, inexperienced lineup, with no time to practice, many of them borderline parachuted into an exhausted M.A.S.H. lineup....there were some sloppy performances/nights - however on the other hand there were also the two vitcories over Toronot, two over Edmonton - really, at least half a dozen excellent peformances in there (where I expected very little) - and another handful of games they were in / or held up reasonably well.  I'm not sure how fair it is to judge coaching staffs in circumstances where they have very limited ability to coach/practice, etc.  When this team is healthy, and reasonably rested - I think his coaching quality is evident.

We also had the worst schedule to start the season in the league. Most travel and most games. In some cases we'd only played around 20 games and had played 8 or 9 more than some teams. It was complete BS. We had zero chance to reset from a bad start by even having a single full practice for weeks. 

[Dazzle]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:40 AM, HomeBrew said:

Green's system is about limiting quality chances while giving away perimeter shots all day long. If done effectively with sound defenders, the only goals being scored would likely be screened or deflected shots. This is was Chicago used to do to us back in the Sedin era. They kept us to the outside and we struggled hard to develop any quality chances. Green actually impressed me in last years playoffs though - he showed he could adapt. This year is a different story as we are giving up quality chances all over the place - many being two on ones, or breakaways. 

On the offensive side, there are too many passes made. You need shots on net to get rebounds, and too much of it was setting up the 'perfect' play. Actually the defensive side too. The outlets are incredibly inefficient. They need to fix everything.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Dazzle

[70seven]

Seems many are waivering on Hughes after this season.  
 

seriously?  It’s his second friggen pro season, and playing huge minutes...  cut the kid some slack.  He’s only the most talented defensman the franchise has ever seen. As he gains experience, hes going to mature that part of his game.  It’s not an overnight development.  He needs reps and he’s getting them.  Patience required y’all.