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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

what are the odds on Treliving still being the GM after this year? I'd say 50-50. The F'Lames had no excuses to miss the playoffs this year. 

I think Treliving is a pretty good GM, personally.    I wouldn't be scapegoating him for Calgary's season.  Has he made some 'mistakes'?  Of course - I think every single GM does - it's inevitable when they make as many decisions, take as many necessary risks as they do.

There are a few (player) changes I'd make there, personally but it's hard to judge many teams under these circumstances.

 

Actually - there are a lot of teams around the league that I wouldn't judge based on this bizarre, roller coaster season.

AV is another good example - Philly's youth have struggled this year - I think that was to be 'expected'...Would I fire Vigneault over it?  Absolutely not.

 

Ottawa was horrendous out of the gate - again to be expected to an extent imo - many folks thought they'd be better this year (mostly based on additions like Stepan that struck me as an awful deal at the time - many would have cleaned house after a month or two....but not now - not if we're fishbowling the last month.  I thought they made some bizarre moves in the offseason, but it's hard to argue with the group of young players they have (beyond just the high picks)....

L.A. was getting fluffed hard earlier this year..but have 'returned to the mean' - and their good start was on the backs of their veterans imo.  Is Blake still a genius?

A lot of young groups / emerging cores on transitioning teams - have really struggled this year.

I think what the NYR's owner just did - was knee-jerk derp material.

 

Really - the first guy I would expect to be terminated was/has been Tortorella - for some time - as long as he's still behind that bench anyone else surviving is second fiddle news imo.

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17 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Does any realize that to build a cup winning team, its to be done through drafting.

 

 lets compare drafting with some of the teams who have drafted the highest since 2014


Toronto

Edmonton

Colorado

no - no one realizes that - just you.

 

classic cherry pick.

 

Buffalo

New Jersey

Ottawa

Detroit

etc

None of them have drafted highest since 2014, right.

 

Btw - how many playoff rounds have your cherry picks won?

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On 5/5/2021 at 3:08 AM, wallstreetamigo said:

At least Calgary paid top dollar for actual top players not bottom 6 aging scrubs like Benning.

 

26 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Treliving and Benning are remarkably similar GM's in their level of futility in the job.

Fluff... and flip flop.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

Fluff... and flip flop.

 

 

 

Haha says the guy who slags on the Flames in one post (ostensibly to argue that other teams sucking excuses our team sucking) then follows it up saying their gm is good.

 

Probably because saying anything else by default siggest Benning isnt good.

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18 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Haha says the guy who slags on the Flames in one post (ostensibly to argue that other teams sucking excuses our team sucking) then follows it up saying their gm is good.

 

Probably because saying anything else by default siggest Benning isnt good.

ostensibly probably a straw waste of time - as usual.

 

er, um let's just cherry pick Markstrom and Tanev - and look at Calgary's last offseason alone....

while we still whine about a player Benning signed in 2016...

 

The honest comparable would be Benning's last offseason - where he signed Hamonic at 1.25 - and Hawryluk depth types...

 

But then we'd have comparable goalposts - and a basis for an actual discussion that isn't mere flailing endlessly.

 

Er "Miller was a cap dump"....

 

Precisely the reason I 'cap' these discussions at a limit that's already been exceeded.

Cheers - I don't see any point.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/4/2021 at 11:52 PM, Azzy said:

in the entire history of the Canucks franchise, these are the only forwards to have played more than 9 games for the team without registering a point:

 

Jimmy Vesey

Travis Boyd

Joseph Cramarossa

Mike Brown

Steve Pinizzotto

Guillaume Desbiens

Joe LaBate

 

So three of our current bottom six are in the bottom 8 in the all-time scoring list for this team. Considering how much we pay our bottom six

 

?

I think the relevence of a 9 game post covid sample is certainly very high...

 

And clearly the kid genius Dubas is also an idiot for signing two of these useless, expiring, waiver-wire 'plugs'.  (Unless of course one were to read all the fluffing about the #proper way to build a bottom six....)

 

The 'expense' of these replacement players probably also irrelevent.

 

Vesey 900k

Boyd  700k

Highmore 725k

 

 

 

 

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I'm ok with trading him. 

I'm still not happy with the return. 

But, unless someone shows another team offered more, sometimes maybe it's better not to make the move than to take a deal you don't really like.

 

In the end he wasn't doing much in Vancouver. Now is that based on the team, or the coaching? 

 

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Gentlemen,  agree to disagree.

 

Having the maturity to listen to someone else's opinions, express your own and move on. Head butting name calling etc. Because of different opinions is, IMHO, immature 

 

We all want the cup, it's why we're here isn't it? 

 

Well Canuck 2288 aside:picard:

 

 

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44 minutes ago, oldnews said:

no - no one realizes that - just you.

 

classic cherry pick.

 

Buffalo

New Jersey

Ottawa

Detroit

etc

None of them have drafted highest since 2014, right.

 

Btw - how many playoff rounds have your cherry picks won?

Hey buddy my point isnt that those “cherry” picks are built to win a cup.
Catch a clue, they have drafted higher and produced less NHL bodies. They have relied heavily on top picks. Re-read my post, at the bottom it indicates how well Benning has drafted in comparison to teams who have had higher picks in each round and cant find anything outside their top 5 picks. Benning has produced nearly 500 points outside of his 2 best players Pettersson and Boeser.

I “cherry” picked those teams for a good reason, they have had high draft picks, they are successful thus far so in reality all their draft picks should produce a fair amount. Which is proving to be entirely wrong, the rely on 2 players for the Laaaarge majority of production.

 

Now heres an oldnews newsflash

 

Buffalo: 1834GP 1047pts (650 between Eichel and Reinhart) leaving 397 points for the rest of their draft picks.... which they have had a 7 consecutive top 10 picks. Which means are drafting 7 first rounders and 7 borderline first round picks. Have iced 100 more games than Benning and 62% of their points have come from Eichel or Reinhart.

 

Next up

Detroit: 1114GP 491 pts (366pts combined between Hronek and Larkin) thats 75% of their points from only 2 of their draft picks and as we all know, Detroit has also drafted pretty high the last 7 seasons. Mainly in the top 15.

 

New Jersey: 1500GP 604pts (285 between Zacha and Hischier) 319pts outside of those 2

 

last but not least...

Ottawa: 1166GP 521pts (274 between Chabot and Tkachuk) 53% of their measley 521pts comes from a dman and a forward.

 

you want to talk about good drafting?? What the f*** would Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado, Buffalo, Detroit, New Jersey and Ottawa be without their top 2 producing draft picks. Vancouver still, without Pettersson and Boeser are producing 200+ more points than any of those other teams draft picks. Buffalo is the only team to ice more NHL players by about 100games, but they are garbage


bennings drafting is superior

 

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11 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

Gentlemen,  agree to disagree.

 

Having the maturity to listen to someone else's opinions, express your own and move on. Head butting name calling etc. Because of different opinions is, IMHO, immature 

 

We all want the cup, it's why we're here isn't it? 

 

Well Canuck 2288 aside:picard:

 

 

I don't name call all that much. Its wasted words and energy. I express my opinions, try to back it up with info and perspective, and dont really care if anyone agrees with me. I actually find it both funny and odd that apparently I offend a significant number of people on here for having a different opinion. 

 

People who dont care about the team would not complain about things on here. They just wouldnt care that the Canucks don't do everything in their power, including moving on from a GM or coach, to someday win a cup.

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37 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I don't name call all that much. Its wasted words and energy. I express my opinions, try to back it up with info and perspective, and dont really care if anyone agrees with me. I actually find it both funny and odd that apparently I offend a significant number of people on here for having a different opinion. 

 

People who dont care about the team would not complain about things on here. They just wouldnt care that the Canucks don't do everything in their power, including moving on from a GM or coach, to someday win a cup.

I enjoy reading others opinions and can respect the vast majority of them. Often they make me reassess my own based on facts or stats.

 

To each their own Brother

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1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said:

Hey buddy my point isnt that those “cherry” picks are built to win a cup.
Catch a clue, they have drafted higher and produced less NHL bodies. They have relied heavily on top picks. Re-read my post, at the bottom it indicates how well Benning has drafted in comparison to teams who have had higher picks in each round and cant find anything outside their top 5 picks. Benning has produced nearly 500 points outside of his 2 best players Pettersson and Boeser.

I “cherry” picked those teams for a good reason, they have had high draft picks, they are successful thus far so in reality all their draft picks should produce a fair amount. Which is proving to be entirely wrong, the rely on 2 players for the Laaaarge majority of production.

 

Now heres an oldnews newsflash

 

Buffalo: 1834GP 1047pts (650 between Eichel and Reinhart) leaving 397 points for the rest of their draft picks.... which they have had a 7 consecutive top 10 picks. Which means are drafting 7 first rounders and 7 borderline first round picks. Have iced 100 more games than Benning and 62% of their points have come from Eichel or Reinhart.

 

Next up

Detroit: 1114GP 491 pts (366pts combined between Hronek and Larkin) thats 75% of their points from only 2 of their draft picks and as we all know, Detroit has also drafted pretty high the last 7 seasons. Mainly in the top 15.

 

New Jersey: 1500GP 604pts (285 between Zacha and Hischier) 319pts outside of those 2

 

last but not least...

Ottawa: 1166GP 521pts (274 between Chabot and Tkachuk) 53% of their measley 521pts comes from a dman and a forward.

 

you want to talk about good drafting?? What the f*** would Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado, Buffalo, Detroit, New Jersey and Ottawa be without their top 2 producing draft picks. Vancouver still, without Pettersson and Boeser are producing 200+ more points than any of those other teams draft picks. Buffalo is the only team to ice more NHL players by about 100games, but they are garbage


bennings drafting is superior

 

well, you're not my 'buddy' - but you're right - I misread your post/or at least your intent.

And regardless, I agree with the basic premise that in the end, drafting and developing is the best, most sustainable (particularly in the cap era) way of building a competitive team.

I'd take that a step further - I don't agree with the opinion that Benning was a good transition GM because of their drafting in the transition phase - I think that remains the principal means by which any teams sustains itself - so I'd stick with him for the long game reasons as well -  because as long as the team continues to produce - with a regular complement of picks (outside the top half of the first round) - Boeser, Demko, Hoglander (DiPietro, Lind, Rathbone, Woo?) types - they'll not only have a steady stream  of young talent, but they'll also have precisely the most important assets in the cap era - ELC and RFAs that buy them low-cap talent in roster spots that otherwise have to be filled by going to the market.

People can complain about the timeline - how long it took them to win playoff rounds - I think it's actually early in the trajectory - with only one player in their top 6 scorers over the age of 25 - and four of them 23 and under, yet to approach their primes...  They can also complain about what happened last summer - but what management did was on the one hand, approach the free agent market conservatively (signing only Hamonic to any deal over 1 million and even he was just a fraction over that and secondly, he did not waste assets to clear short run cap (ie cap over this season and next, which imo are not as important as retaining those longer terms assets.  I can't disagree with management on either point, even if it meant not taking another step forward short term/this season.  As it turned out, this season is a shat show regardless - no FA signing could have pre-empted what has happened this year.

Regardless of differences of opinion over what type of transition veteran 'foundation' they 'should have' signed/acquired or not - for me the underlying reality is that the drafting and development in this era has set the team up to compete - and continue to.   The only way to avoid short term windows imo is to continue to produce that stream of prospects - easier said that done - and few teams manage to - whereas this management group has shown the track record and potential to - in that specific sense - emulate the best built contenders of the present (ie Tampa, who have not just a 'generation' of talent, but an ongoing pool (that Yzerman is likely to reproduce in Detroit in the end).  Any GM that doesn't bring that particular strength in their toolbox, I'm not interested in replacing Benning with.   Are there any Steve Yzermans available on the GM FA market?

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Now I have seen it all. Someone just really said - and was serious - that Benning has shown an ability to emulate Tampa Bay in how he has built this team.

 

Our prospect pool is good but after the next few make the team there is not a lot left that could be considered sure nhl impact players. Most here need to believe there are but there really aren't.

 

Benning's late round picks have been good. Until he threw several of the better ones away for short term fixes or literally not much value coming back which drags that value down.

 

Tampa has drafted well but have also been exceptional at getting value, on their roster or through trades to get better players, from those players. That is the difference that no one can reasonably claim Benning has done.

 

Looking at the picks he has made, how many of his top few round picks were not considered bpa types at the spot they were picked? Petterssen. Cant really think of any others. Combined with the Virtanen disaster and the Juolevi reach, his drafting is good, not godly. I struggle to believe almost any GM in his spot could have not reasonably been expected to pick Boeser, Hughes, Podkolzin (aside from the Russian factor), Hoglander, Demko, etc. And probably would not have selected Virtanen and Juolevi.

 

We will of course never know. And his drafting (whether he or Brackett were responsible is up for debate) has overall been good. He deserves credit for that.

 

But the rest of his skills have been average at best to terrible at worst.

 

Drafting is one piece. No truly competitive team only drafts their way to cups. They have to manage the cap well, make good trades that at least incrementally improve the team, negotiate good contracts, understand how to evaluate pro players, and have a clear vision of what they want the team to look and play like. 

 

There are a lot of potential GM's that would likely be much better than Benning is at those.

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

you see literally nothing.

your reading comprehension completely fails you

straw games are all you're capable of. endless cycles of wag the dog, and chase your tail

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6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This is my concern though. 

 

Cap is coming available, just like it has several times during Bennings tenure. He genuinely believed the players he signed previously were keys to a competitive team. So what is he going to waste that cap space on?

 

If Benning does the same type of signings it means there will need to be another rebuild and no window for this core. 

Yeah. Right now I am okay with a full house clear of the coaching/GM. If we keep Benning and he messes up again I’ll probably be right there with you in how much you’d like to see him gone. 
 

2022-23 off-season is a pretty critical time-frame.  If we do well and bring in 2 impact players in FA we’ll be probably a playoff team for a while. 
 

This off-season we won’t have any cap to sign anyone and will likely be a lot younger. Probably another down year which is okay. A transitional year with the amount of youngsters(Rathbone/OJ/Lind/Gadjovich/Pod/Hog) needing experience is necessary. Another top 10 pick in 2022 would be helpful too. 

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23 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Yeah. Right now I am okay with a full house clear of the coaching/GM. If we keep Benning and he messes up again I’ll probably be right there with you in how much you’d like to see him gone. 
 

2022-23 off-season is a pretty critical time-frame.  If we do well and bring in 2 impact players in FA we’ll be probably a playoff team for a while. 
 

This off-season we won’t have any cap to sign anyone and will likely be a lot younger. Probably another down year which is okay. A transitional year with the amount of youngsters(Rathbone/OJ/Lind/Gadjovich/Pod/Hog) needing experience is necessary. Another top 10 pick in 2022 would be helpful too. 

My fear is that if Benning follows the same path he has and makes those kind of mistakes again, it basically will eventually force nother rebuild and waste this core's potential window.

 

There is far more at stake now. And I have zero confidence in Benning suddenly changing the very core of his GM instincts.

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19 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

My fear is that if Benning follows the same path he has and makes those kind of mistakes again, it basically will eventually force nother rebuild and waste this core's potential window.

 

There is far more at stake now. And I have zero confidence in Benning suddenly changing the very core of his GM instincts.

Yeah I understand where you’re coming from. Not as much on the hate train yet. I just want a better sense of direction from whoever’s gonna be leading this organization. 
 

Can’t be more of the same or else, like you said, we will be reeling from potential mistakes long-term. 
 

The scouting department has built some nice pieces(Boeser/Demko/Petey/Hughes/etc) and potentially a few more(2nd wave of youngsters) plus whoever we draft the next 2 years. I would hate to see that go to waste. 

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6 hours ago, oldnews said:

I think Treliving is a pretty good GM, personally.    I wouldn't be scapegoating him for Calgary's season.  Has he made some 'mistakes'?  Of course - I think every single GM does - it's inevitable when they make as many decisions, take as many necessary risks as they do.

There are a few (player) changes I'd make there, personally but it's hard to judge many teams under these circumstances.

 

Actually - there are a lot of teams around the league that I wouldn't judge based on this bizarre, roller coaster season.

AV is another good example - Philly's youth have struggled this year - I think that was to be 'expected'...Would I fire Vigneault over it?  Absolutely not.

 

Ottawa was horrendous out of the gate - again to be expected to an extent imo - many folks thought they'd be better this year (mostly based on additions like Stepan that struck me as an awful deal at the time - many would have cleaned house after a month or two....but not now - not if we're fishbowling the last month.  I thought they made some bizarre moves in the offseason, but it's hard to argue with the group of young players they have (beyond just the high picks)....

L.A. was getting fluffed hard earlier this year..but have 'returned to the mean' - and their good start was on the backs of their veterans imo.  Is Blake still a genius?

A lot of young groups / emerging cores on transitioning teams - have really struggled this year.

I think what the NYR's owner just did - was knee-jerk derp material.

 

Really - the first guy I would expect to be terminated was/has been Tortorella - for some time - as long as he's still behind that bench anyone else surviving is second fiddle news imo.

have to respectfully disagree, I think going with very long and expensive contracts, a coach change and worse results might get him canned. Montreal was right there for the taking and they just pooped the bed. 

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