[Trade] Canucks trade Adam Gaudette to Blackhawks for Matthew Highmore

[JM_ 48,682]

6 hours ago, oldnews said:

I think Treliving is a pretty good GM, personally.    I wouldn't be scapegoating him for Calgary's season.  Has he made some 'mistakes'?  Of course - I think every single GM does - it's inevitable when they make as many decisions, take as many necessary risks as they do.

There are a few (player) changes I'd make there, personally but it's hard to judge many teams under these circumstances.

 

Actually - there are a lot of teams around the league that I wouldn't judge based on this bizarre, roller coaster season.

AV is another good example - Philly's youth have struggled this year - I think that was to be 'expected'...Would I fire Vigneault over it?  Absolutely not.

 

Ottawa was horrendous out of the gate - again to be expected to an extent imo - many folks thought they'd be better this year (mostly based on additions like Stepan that struck me as an awful deal at the time - many would have cleaned house after a month or two....but not now - not if we're fishbowling the last month.  I thought they made some bizarre moves in the offseason, but it's hard to argue with the group of young players they have (beyond just the high picks)....

L.A. was getting fluffed hard earlier this year..but have 'returned to the mean' - and their good start was on the backs of their veterans imo.  Is Blake still a genius?

A lot of young groups / emerging cores on transitioning teams - have really struggled this year.

I think what the NYR's owner just did - was knee-jerk derp material.

 

Really - the first guy I would expect to be terminated was/has been Tortorella - for some time - as long as he's still behind that bench anyone else surviving is second fiddle news imo.

have to respectfully disagree, I think going with very long and expensive contracts, a coach change and worse results might get him canned. Montreal was right there for the taking and they just pooped the bed. 

[Canuckster86 3,878]

Gaudette has 4 points in 5 games, good for him wish him all the best...sad to see him go thought he had promise after last season

[knucklehead91 1,735]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

well, you're not my 'buddy' - but you're right - I misread your post/or at least your intent.

And regardless, I agree with the basic premise that in the end, drafting and developing is the best, most sustainable (particularly in the cap era) way of building a competitive team.

I'd take that a step further - I don't agree with the opinion that Benning was a good transition GM because of their drafting in the transition phase - I think that remains the principal means by which any teams sustains itself - so I'd stick with him for the long game reasons as well -  because as long as the team continues to produce - with a regular complement of picks (outside the top half of the first round) - Boeser, Demko, Hoglander (DiPietro, Lind, Rathbone, Woo?) types - they'll not only have a steady stream  of young talent, but they'll also have precisely the most important assets in the cap era - ELC and RFAs that buy them low-cap talent in roster spots that otherwise have to be filled by going to the market.

People can complain about the timeline - how long it took them to win playoff rounds - I think it's actually early in the trajectory - with only one player in their top 6 scorers over the age of 25 - and four of them 23 and under, yet to approach their primes...  They can also complain about what happened last summer - but what management did was on the one hand, approach the free agent market conservatively (signing only Hamonic to any deal over 1 million and even he was just a fraction over that and secondly, he did not waste assets to clear short run cap (ie cap over this season and next, which imo are not as important as retaining those longer terms assets.  I can't disagree with management on either point, even if it meant not taking another step forward short term/this season.  As it turned out, this season is a shat show regardless - no FA signing could have pre-empted what has happened this year.

Regardless of differences of opinion over what type of transition veteran 'foundation' they 'should have' signed/acquired or not - for me the underlying reality is that the drafting and development in this era has set the team up to compete - and continue to.   The only way to avoid short term windows imo is to continue to produce that stream of prospects - easier said that done - and few teams manage to - whereas this management group has shown the track record and potential to - in that specific sense - emulate the best built contenders of the present (ie Tampa, who have not just a 'generation' of talent, but an ongoing pool (that Yzerman is likely to reproduce in Detroit in the end).  Any GM that doesn't bring that particular strength in their toolbox, I'm not interested in replacing Benning with.   Are there any Steve Yzermans available on the GM FA market?

All good, Im glad to see we are both at least on the same page. 
The way this season came about was the perfect storm for a disastrous season. No real training camp, no pre-season to stretch the legs and then an absolute log jam of games to start the season which wore this team down, led to injuries and then COVID wrecks us as we are finally finding our footing, the lay off was the icing on the cake that signalled times ahead.... no rest and not in game shape.

 

I feel that as painful as this season has been, it hasnt been a fair season or a fair representation of this team. Next year we will be ready to rock and roll.

 

Since the Sedins retired at the end of the 2017-18 campaign and the rebuild began, we have tracked in a very positive direction in an incredibly short time. When comparing the rebuilds of Toronto, Edmonton, Buffalo and so on and so forth. They took years and years to get to where they are now... Buffalo is still where they were when they started. But I think they will surprise people next year. 

Im extremely excited to see the new age core become the new era Canucks power house

 

 

[73 Percent 13,929]

Did gaudette get a point tonight? Asking for a friend.

[Dazzle 8,543]

10 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Benning should be replaced.  End of story.

 

This has been the case for quite some time now.

 

Hope this helps.

Do you ever have any fresh takes? Could you recommend any good replacements?

I noticed that you've consistently been making excuses for Green. Or am I mistaken? I don't think he'll survive the GM change, but I'm just guessing.

[Dazzle 8,543]

1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Did gaudette get a point tonight? Asking for a friend.

No, he did not. He had one SOG and wasn't on the ice for any goals.

[wallstreetamigo 9,718]

1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Did gaudette get a point tonight? Asking for a friend.

No he didnt have any points.

[4petesake 5,321]

14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No he didnt have any points.

I know that we’ve had this conversation before but I’ll say it again. I didn’t see the Hawks game and I don’t know how he played but I hope he played well and that he has a good career. I thought Highmore had a good game tonight but had no points as either.

 

I realize that players involved in a trade will always be compared but it does seem a little silly to do it on a game by game basis doesn’t it. Both sides rush in waiving their stat sheets after each game.

 

Gaudette probably has a bit higher ceiling but will need to keep scoring to stay in the top six or likely gets moved on again. Highmore looks like if he is to stay he’ll have to do what he did tonight on a regular basis to play on the fourth line.

 

Or I could see either guy in the K in a year or two.

[iinatcc 1,597]

47 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Do you ever have any fresh takes? Could you recommend any good replacements?
 

I wasn't the original poster ... But my vote goes to Dean Lombardi

 

The guy knows how to make key trades and knows how to navigate around bad contracts (Mike Richards)

 

Edited May 7 by iinatcc

[wallstreetamigo 9,718]

23 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

I know that we’ve had this conversation before but I’ll say it again. I didn’t see the Hawks game and I don’t know how he played but I hope he played well and that he has a good career. I thought Highmore had a good game tonight but had no points as either.

 

I realize that players involved in a trade will always be compared but it does seem a little silly to do it on a game by game basis doesn’t it. Both sides rush in waiving their stat sheets after each game.

 

Gaudette probably has a bit higher ceiling but will need to keep scoring to stay in the top six or likely gets moved on again. Highmore looks like if he is to stay he’ll have to do what he did tonight on a regular basis to play on the fourth line.

 

Or I could see either guy in the K in a year or two.

Highmore had an assist tonight and played what I thought was a really good game. He impressed me tonight. He hustled but really didnt show much until this game.

 

Every time Gaudette gets scratched or doesnt get a point, some use it as some sort of proof that he is garbage to validate the trade and to try to suggest people who dont think he is are wrong. Its pretty stupid really.

 

I see them do the same thing if Pearson scores to dismiss people who dont think Pearson is worth his contract, etc. 

 

One game or even a handful of games is too small a sample size to make such determinations about any player. 

 

This trade, to me, was not a good one from an asset management standpoint. But I still am happy to see both players do well.

 

Some people just have to be right and some people just have to ridicule others who have a different opinion. To me thats sad really. 

[Westcoastcanucks777 177]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

No he didnt have any points.

I wish he he had points today that all that matters in the big time !

[Azzy 774]

11 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

?

I think the relevence of a 9 game post covid sample is certainly very high...

 

And clearly the kid genius Dubas is also an idiot for signing two of these useless, expiring, waiver-wire 'plugs'.  (Unless of course one were to read all the fluffing about the #proper way to build a bottom six....)

 

The 'expense' of these replacement players probably also irrelevent.

 

Vesey 900k

Boyd  700k

Highmore 725k

The relevance is high. Vesey averages over 16mins game. Are you suggesting it's okay to be on such a barren run, and that maybe he needs more ice time because it's post-Covid? Maybe we play Vesey for the full 60mins to help him finally do something on the scoresheet.

 

Or, you realise that no matter the circumstances (Highmlre wasn't even here for the outbreak) that the lack of production from these three should have seen all three benched by now.

 

Dubas can only be considered successful if Keefe ever takes the Leafs past the second round. His time is running out too.

 

And the only reason the cost of these three is attractive is because of the parallel cost of Roussel, Sutter, Ferland, Beagle and Virtanen. Lind, Gadjovich, Jasek all have similar cost but at least have a future within the organisation - all that ice time, all that opportunity, should have been theirs.

[oldnews 56,869]

5 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

have to respectfully disagree, I think going with very long and expensive contracts, a coach change and worse results might get him canned. Montreal was right there for the taking and they just pooped the bed. 

that's fair - if they make that decision based on this year's results - then it's fair to say - they did not make the playoffs

"should" they have?

I think most people in here assumed they were going to - and were going to dominate this team this year.  Instead they idled along at the pace of this team - who had far more legitimate reasons to underachieve than the Lames did imo.

Is that Treliving's fault?  I don't know. 

I've watched less hockey this year than ever - imo the hockey just have not been particularly compelling - league wide.  As much as I love Marky and Tanev, Calgary has been borderline unwatchable.

Should they fire him?  Not sure - hard to say the buck stops anywhere else - and  I'm not a fan of bringing Sutter in to coach that group - but at the same time, I find it hard to argue with most of Treliving's moves / throughout his tenure  (with the exception of course of a few mistakes like the Neal deal...that I think most if not all GMs make).  I think he's done a pretty good job overall - will be surprised if he is axed based on this covid season (I think a whole lot of teams have been inconsistent, and the hockey in general league-wide has not been very good / low energy / poor execution - exhausted teams struggling to make it through this season).  I can't imagine the playoffs will be a whole lot better - lots of teams are 3 or 4 games away from the postseason and playing some pretty bad, loose, inconsistent hockey.  For me he 'should' probably make another coaching change in the offseason- if he survives the offseason.  Personally I don't think I'd fire him.  There are a few core players/forwards I'd try to move, though.

 

[Gollumpus 3,832]

8 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Now I have seen it all. Someone just really said - and was serious - that Benning has shown an ability to emulate Tampa Bay in how he has built this team.

 

Our prospect pool is good but after the next few make the team there is not a lot left that could be considered sure nhl impact players. Most here need to believe there are but there really aren't.

 

Benning's late round picks have been good. Until he threw several of the better ones away for short term fixes or literally not much value coming back which drags that value down.

 

Tampa has drafted well but have also been exceptional at getting value, on their roster or through trades to get better players, from those players. That is the difference that no one can reasonably claim Benning has done.

 

Looking at the picks he has made, how many of his top few round picks were not considered bpa types at the spot they were picked? Petterssen. Cant really think of any others. Combined with the Virtanen disaster and the Juolevi reach, his drafting is good, not godly. I struggle to believe almost any GM in his spot could have not reasonably been expected to pick Boeser, Hughes, Podkolzin (aside from the Russian factor), Hoglander, Demko, etc. And probably would not have selected Virtanen and Juolevi.

 

We will of course never know. And his drafting (whether he or Brackett were responsible is up for debate) has overall been good. He deserves credit for that.

 

But the rest of his skills have been average at best to terrible at worst.

 

Drafting is one piece. No truly competitive team only drafts their way to cups. They have to manage the cap well, make good trades that at least incrementally improve the team, negotiate good contracts, understand how to evaluate pro players, and have a clear vision of what they want the team to look and play like. 

 

There are a lot of potential GM's that would likely be much better than Benning is at those.

I've looked at TB's trade history (up until Feb. 2020 as the site I'm looking at hasn't been updated and I'm too lazy to go look elsewhere) and aside from one definite home run (Sergachev for Drouin), and a couple of borderline wins for TB with the Rangers and the Canucks (both of which involved Miller, but both were cap related type of dump trades), I can't say that I see any huge wins for TB in getting exceptional value via trades (that's a long sentence).

 

Maybe they have gotten an extra 6th round pick (great if they actually pay off in a decent prospect or can be used to fill out a trade later on), or maybe the guy they picked up was a borderline third liner (mostly 4th liner) but the guy they moved out was just a 4th liner. 

 

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Tampa_Bay_Lightning/1  (see below)

 

I think the Canucks' trade history during Benning's time has been pretty good, maybe not as great as some might hope and perhaps with reason(s). Signing UFAs might be an area of contention where there is room for discussion. All in all, I see more in the way of major wins, few "losses" of any significance, and a number of small results, none of which would shake the foundations of the franchise.

 

Wins:

* The Toffoli deal was pretty good, up until the cap/re-signing thing got in the way, but the deal was good (and the cap/re-signing is a completely different issue from the value of the trade).

* Acquiring Miller was an outstanding move.

* Pearson for Gudbranson was a very good deal.

* Schenn (and a 7th) for Del Zotto was a win.

* Jokinen and Motte for Vanek was a win.

* Granlund for Shinkaruk was a win. 

* Sutter (and pick) for Bonino etc was a borderline win, but only due to injury issues for Sutter.

* Bieksa for a 2nd was a win (considering...)

* Lack for a 3rd and a 7th was a win.

* Kesler (etc) for all the Canucks got for him was a win (considering...)

* Getting Dorsett for a 3rd was a win (another injury affected result).

* Getting a 2nd for Garrison (etc) was a win.

 

Losses/draws:

* Vey turned out poorly, in part due to circumstances IRL.

* Getting Baertschi for a 2nd didn't turn out as well as hoped in part due to injury issues.

* Kassian/Prust was not as hoped, but Kassian had to moved and it took a pick and agreeing to take on Prust in order to get it done.

* Gudbranson/McCann, I was okay with the deal but perhaps something better could have come from it.

 

 

                                                regards,  G.

 

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	San Jose Sharks acquire
Barclay Goodrow 2020 3rd round pick	February 24, 2020	Anthony Greco 2020 1st round pick
Comment: The 3rd round pick is the Flyers pick.

Florida Panthers acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Danick Martel	February 20, 2020	Anthony Greco

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New Jersey Devils acquire
Blake Coleman	February 16, 2020	Nolan Foote 2020 1st round pick
Comment: The 1st rounder being sent to New Jersey was acquired by the Lightning in the J.T. Miller trade with the Vancouver Canucks last summer. It carries a condition that if the Canucks miss the playoffs this season, the pick transfers to a 2021 first-round pick.

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Buffalo Sabres acquire
Devante Stephens	November 24, 2019	Matthew Spencer

New Jersey Devils acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Louis Domingue	November 1, 2019	2021 conditional 7th round pick

Detroit Red Wings acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Adam Erne	August 14, 2019	2020 4th round pick

Ottawa Senators acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Ryan Callahan 2020 5th round pick	July 30, 2019	Mike Condon 2020 6th round pick

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
J.T Miller	June 22, 2019	Marek Mazanec 2019 3rd round pick 2020 conditional 1st round pick

Nashville Predators acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Connor Ingram	June 14, 2019	2021 7th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Chicago Blackhawks acquire
Jan Rutta 2019 7th round pick	January 11, 2019	Slater Koekkoek 2019 5th round pick

Los Angeles Kings acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Peter Budaj	June 13, 2018	Andy Andreoff

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New York Rangers acquire
Ryan McDonagh J.T. Miller	February 26, 2018	Vladislav Namestnikov Libor Hajek Brett Howden 2018 1st round pick 2019 conditional 2nd round pick
Comment: Conditional 2nd round pick becomes a first-rounder if the Lightning win the Stanley Cup in either 2018 or 2019.

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Arizona Coyotes acquire
Louis Domingue Tye McGinn	November 14, 2017	Michael Leighton

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New York Islanders acquire
Carter Verhaeghe	July 1, 2017	Kristers Gudlevskis

Vegas Golden Knights acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Nikita Gusev 2017 2nd round pick 2018 4th round pick	June 21, 2017	Expansion draft considerations

Montreal Canadiens acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
2018 conditional 6th round pick Jonathan Drouin	June 15, 2017	2018 conditional 2nd round pick Mikhail Sergachev

Pittsburgh Penguins acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Mark Streit	March 1, 2017	2018 4th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Philadelphia Flyers acquire
Mark Streit	March 1, 2017	Valtteri Filppula 2017 4th round pick 2017 conditional 7th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Florida Panthers acquire
Mike McKenna	March 1, 2017	Adam Wilcox

Toronto Maple Leafs acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Brian Boyle	February 27, 2017	Byron Froese 2017 2nd round pick

 

Los Angeles Kings acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Ben Bishop 2017 5th round pick	February 26, 2017	Peter Budaj Erik Cernak 2017 7th round pick 2017 conditional pick

Montreal Canadiens acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Nikita Nesterov	January 26, 2017	Jonathan Racine 2017 6th round pick

Arizona Coyotes acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Anthony DeAngelo	June 25, 2016	2016 2nd round pick (#37-Libor Hajek)

Calgary Flames acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Kevin Poulin	November 12, 2015	Future considerations

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Philadelphia Flyers acquire
Braydon Coburn	March 2, 2015	Radko Gudas 2015 1st round pick 2015 3rd round pick

Boston Bruins acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Brett Connolly	March 2, 2015	2015 2nd round pick 2016 2nd round pick

San Jose Sharks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Evgeni Nabokov	February 9, 2015	Future considerations

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Toronto Maple Leafs acquire
Carter Ashton David Broll	February 6, 2015	2016 conditional draft pick

Anaheim Ducks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Eric Brewer	November 28, 2014	2015 3rd round pick

Anaheim Ducks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Nate Thompson	June 30, 2014	2015 4th round pick 2015 7th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Edmonton Oilers acquire
Sam Gagner	June 29, 2014	Teddy Purcell

Arizona Coyotes acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Sam Gagner B.J. Crombeen	June 29, 2014	2015 6th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Vancouver Canucks acquire
Jason Garrison Jeff Costello 2015 7th round pick	June 27, 2014	2014 2nd round pick

 

[oldnews 56,869]

6 minutes ago, Azzy said:

The relevance is high. Vesey averages over 16mins game. Are you suggesting it's okay to be on such a barren run, and that maybe he needs more ice time because it's post-Covid? Maybe we play Vesey for the full 60mins to help him finally do something on the scoresheet.

 

How is the relevence of a waiver wire replacement player's production "high"?   My point has nothing to do with getting Vesey more ice time or expecting/hoping for more production out of him.  For me, neither he, nor Boyd are players I'd consider bringing back next season - that may not be 'fair' considering I don't know how healthy/fit, etc they are - but they are waiver wire replacement players...that otherwise would/should not be in a healthy lineup.  Nothing in their performance has indicated they were as good as the players they were replacing - not even close.  Were you expecting waiver claims to help propel the team on a playoff run?   I sure as hell didn't.   Their cap hits are irrelevent, and their performance is relatively inconsequential.   You're talking about 9 games as though they have some impact on the futures of guys in Utica.  I don't think there was as much as stake as you're implying / not worth digging in over.  Highmore I would like to see more of.  If I'm supposed to write him off based on 9 games, am I supposed to not write off Gaudette based on not producing a single point in 10 playoff games last postseason?  How many forwards in team history have gone their first 10 playoff games without a point?  I'm sorry, but I don't find the question very compelling.

[wallstreetamigo 9,718]

3 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

I've looked at TB's trade history (up until Feb. 2020 as the site I'm looking at hasn't been updated and I'm too lazy to go look elsewhere) and aside from one definite home run (Sergachev for Drouin), and a couple of borderline wins for TB with the Rangers and the Canucks (both of which involved Miller, but both were cap related type of dump trades), I can't say that I see any huge wins for TB in getting exceptional value via trades (that's a long sentence).

 

Maybe they have gotten an extra 6th round pick (great if they actually pay off in a decent prospect or can be used to fill out a trade later on), or maybe the guy they picked up was a borderline third liner (mostly 4th liner) but the guy they moved out was just a 4th liner. 

 

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Tampa_Bay_Lightning/1  (see below)

 

I think the Canucks' trade history during Benning's time has been pretty good, maybe not as great as some might hope and perhaps with reason(s). Signing UFAs might be an area of contention where there is room for discussion. All in all, I see more in the way of major wins, few "losses" of any significance, and a number of small results, none of which would shake the foundations of the franchise.

 

Wins:

* The Toffoli deal was pretty good, up until the cap/re-signing thing got in the way, but the deal was good (and the cap/re-signing is a completely different issue from the value of the trade).

* Acquiring Miller was an outstanding move.

* Pearson for Gudbranson was a very good deal.

* Schenn (and a 7th) for Del Zotto was a win.

* Jokinen and Motte for Vanek was a win.

* Granlund for Shinkaruk was a win. 

* Sutter (and pick) for Bonino etc was a borderline win, but only due to injury issues for Sutter.

* Bieksa for a 2nd was a win (considering...)

* Lack for a 3rd and a 7th was a win.

* Kesler (etc) for all the Canucks got for him was a win (considering...)

* Getting Dorsett for a 3rd was a win (another injury affected result).

* Getting a 2nd for Garrison (etc) was a win.

 

Losses/draws:

* Vey turned out poorly, in part due to circumstances IRL.

* Getting Baertschi for a 2nd didn't turn out as well as hoped in part due to injury issues.

* Kassian/Prust was not as hoped, but Kassian had to moved and it took a pick and agreeing to take on Prust in order to get it done.

* Gudbranson/McCann, I was okay with the deal but perhaps something better could have come from it.

 

 

                                                regards,  G.

 

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	San Jose Sharks acquire
Barclay Goodrow 2020 3rd round pick	February 24, 2020	Anthony Greco 2020 1st round pick
Comment: The 3rd round pick is the Flyers pick.

Florida Panthers acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Danick Martel	February 20, 2020	Anthony Greco

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New Jersey Devils acquire
Blake Coleman	February 16, 2020	Nolan Foote 2020 1st round pick
Comment: The 1st rounder being sent to New Jersey was acquired by the Lightning in the J.T. Miller trade with the Vancouver Canucks last summer. It carries a condition that if the Canucks miss the playoffs this season, the pick transfers to a 2021 first-round pick.

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Buffalo Sabres acquire
Devante Stephens	November 24, 2019	Matthew Spencer

New Jersey Devils acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Louis Domingue	November 1, 2019	2021 conditional 7th round pick

Detroit Red Wings acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Adam Erne	August 14, 2019	2020 4th round pick

Ottawa Senators acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Ryan Callahan 2020 5th round pick	July 30, 2019	Mike Condon 2020 6th round pick

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
J.T Miller	June 22, 2019	Marek Mazanec 2019 3rd round pick 2020 conditional 1st round pick

Nashville Predators acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Connor Ingram	June 14, 2019	2021 7th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Chicago Blackhawks acquire
Jan Rutta 2019 7th round pick	January 11, 2019	Slater Koekkoek 2019 5th round pick

Los Angeles Kings acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Peter Budaj	June 13, 2018	Andy Andreoff

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New York Rangers acquire
Ryan McDonagh J.T. Miller	February 26, 2018	Vladislav Namestnikov Libor Hajek Brett Howden 2018 1st round pick 2019 conditional 2nd round pick
Comment: Conditional 2nd round pick becomes a first-rounder if the Lightning win the Stanley Cup in either 2018 or 2019.

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Arizona Coyotes acquire
Louis Domingue Tye McGinn	November 14, 2017	Michael Leighton

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New York Islanders acquire
Carter Verhaeghe	July 1, 2017	Kristers Gudlevskis

Vegas Golden Knights acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Nikita Gusev 2017 2nd round pick 2018 4th round pick	June 21, 2017	Expansion draft considerations

Montreal Canadiens acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
2018 conditional 6th round pick Jonathan Drouin	June 15, 2017	2018 conditional 2nd round pick Mikhail Sergachev

Pittsburgh Penguins acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Mark Streit	March 1, 2017	2018 4th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Philadelphia Flyers acquire
Mark Streit	March 1, 2017	Valtteri Filppula 2017 4th round pick 2017 conditional 7th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Florida Panthers acquire
Mike McKenna	March 1, 2017	Adam Wilcox

Toronto Maple Leafs acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Brian Boyle	February 27, 2017	Byron Froese 2017 2nd round pick

 

Los Angeles Kings acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Ben Bishop 2017 5th round pick	February 26, 2017	Peter Budaj Erik Cernak 2017 7th round pick 2017 conditional pick

Montreal Canadiens acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Nikita Nesterov	January 26, 2017	Jonathan Racine 2017 6th round pick

Arizona Coyotes acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Anthony DeAngelo	June 25, 2016	2016 2nd round pick (#37-Libor Hajek)

Calgary Flames acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Kevin Poulin	November 12, 2015	Future considerations

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Philadelphia Flyers acquire
Braydon Coburn	March 2, 2015	Radko Gudas 2015 1st round pick 2015 3rd round pick

Boston Bruins acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Brett Connolly	March 2, 2015	2015 2nd round pick 2016 2nd round pick

San Jose Sharks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Evgeni Nabokov	February 9, 2015	Future considerations

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Toronto Maple Leafs acquire
Carter Ashton David Broll	February 6, 2015	2016 conditional draft pick

Anaheim Ducks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Eric Brewer	November 28, 2014	2015 3rd round pick

Anaheim Ducks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Nate Thompson	June 30, 2014	2015 4th round pick 2015 7th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Edmonton Oilers acquire
Sam Gagner	June 29, 2014	Teddy Purcell

Arizona Coyotes acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Sam Gagner B.J. Crombeen	June 29, 2014	2015 6th round pick

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	Vancouver Canucks acquire
Jason Garrison Jeff Costello 2015 7th round pick	June 27, 2014	2014 2nd round pick

 

Notice I said "exceptional at getting value" and not "getting exceptional value". You dont have to get exceptional value every time, just value. And TB has been head and shoulders above the Canucks there. A big component of their value has also been making moves that give them cap to continue improving their roster. That is very often overlooked in evaluating trades.

 

And notice I also said ON THEIR ROSTER AND IN TRADES. They have been exceptional at getting value out of their picks and trades as a total package. Benning has made some good picks only to give them up for nothing. The net result is still a wasted pick and a nitch in the loss column.

 

I disagree on the Toffoli trade. It would have been a win if Benning didnt let him walk. 

 

You conveniently ignore a lot of Bennings trades too, sugar coating his record of giving up picks and prospects for tweeners. Forsling for Clendening for example. In no universe could that be considered even a draw. But you dont include deals like that in there.

 

Most of the trades you list as Benning wins were not earth shattering for the Canucks so at the very least if thats the metric you use to judge TB's trade record, you should use the same metric for judging Benning.

 

This analysis of yours also does not factor in losing players for absolutely nothing either. Tryamkin being the latest example. But many of the trades you think were wins didnt result in players who were used to help the team once their usefulness to the team ran out.

 

Thats an area where TB has been really good. Identifying non core or redundant players and incrementally improving on them with trades. Whether that is a C prospect to get a B prospect or a 4th liner traded for a borderline 3rd liner. Incremental value consistently is enough. And TB has been really good at that.

 

Benning had some wins there, like Granlund for Shinkaruk as you list. But he has also given up inremental value on a lot of his trades. Kassian and a pick for Prust as an example.

 

Benning has had limited success with his teams. Tampa Bay has won a cup and is a perennial powerhouse. I think thats probably as good an indication as any of whoch team squeezes more value out of their assets and cap.

[wallstreetamigo 9,718]

I think, to be fair, an analysis of cap management and free agent signings would need to be included to try to suggest Benning is building like either Tampa GM did.

 

Not sure how if those are included anyone could say he is as good as they are.

 

In actual fact its a joke to suggest he is as good as either of them under any metric.

 

His teams have not been competitive either during a retool where he told us only a few foundational players like Sutter or Beagle or Loui, etc were needed to be a contender or during his rebuild where he still acquired those kind of players far more than a rebuilding team should.

 

He is, imho, a bottom 5 GM in the league on the whole. And his results kind of prove it.

Edited May 7 by wallstreetamigo

[joe-max 1,256]

9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Looking at the picks he has made, how many of his top few round picks were not considered bpa types at the spot they were picked? Petterssen. Cant really think of any others. Combined with the Virtanen disaster and the Juolevi reach, his drafting is good, not godly. I struggle to believe almost any GM in his spot could have not reasonably been expected to pick Boeser, Hughes, Podkolzin (aside from the Russian factor), Hoglander, Demko, etc. And probably would not have selected Virtanen and Juolevi.

That's speculation. That's the entire point of the draft. The other GMs didn't pick these guys, In Boeser's case 22 had the chance, in Höglander's and Demko's case every single team could have taken them and didn't. Benning did. Btw, there is no universal, absolute bpa-list.

 

Just for fun: What would the team have looked like had the Canucks always picked the player that was picked right before their turn inthe first 2 rounds:

2014: MIchael Del Colle instead of JV; Conner Bleackley instead of Jared McCann; Dominik Masin istead of Thatcher Demko

2015: Ilya Samsonov istead of Brock Boeser

2016: Jeese Puljujärvi instead of Olli Juolevi

2017: Cale Makar instead of Elias Pettersson; Conor Timmins instead of Kole Lind; Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen instead of Jonah Gadjovich

2018: Filip Zadina instead of Quinn Hughes; Jared McIsaak instead of Jett Woo

2019: Trevor Zegras instead of Vasili Podkolzin; Jackson LaCombe instead of Nils Höglander

 

So our young core would be:

Del Colle

Bleackley

Masin

Samsonov

Puljujärvi

Makar

TImmins

Luukkonen

Zadina

McIsaak

Zegras

LaCombe

 

There would be more depth ond D and in goal, but I still like the current group better.

 

 

 

 

[Gollumpus 3,832]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Notice I said "exceptional at getting value" and not "getting exceptional value". You dont have to get exceptional value every time, just value. And TB has been head and shoulders above the Canucks there. A big component of their value has also been making moves that give them cap to continue improving their roster. That is very often overlooked in evaluating trades.

 

And notice I also said ON THEIR ROSTER AND IN TRADES. They have been exceptional at getting value out of their picks and trades as a total package. Benning has made some good picks only to give them up for nothing. The net result is still a wasted pick and a nitch in the loss column.

 

I disagree on the Toffoli trade. It would have been a win if Benning didnt let him walk. 

 

You conveniently ignore a lot of Bennings trades too, sugar coating his record of giving up picks and prospects for tweeners. Forsling for Clendening for example. In no universe could that be considered even a draw. But you dont include deals like that in there.

 

Most of the trades you list as Benning wins were not earth shattering for the Canucks so at the very least if thats the metric you use to judge TB's trade record, you should use the same metric for judging Benning.

 

This analysis of yours also does not factor in losing players for absolutely nothing either. Tryamkin being the latest example. But many of the trades you think were wins didnt result in players who were used to help the team once their usefulness to the team ran out.

 

Thats an area where TB has been really good. Identifying non core or redundant players and incrementally improving on them with trades. Whether that is a C prospect to get a B prospect or a 4th liner traded for a borderline 3rd liner. Incremental value consistently is enough. And TB has been really good at that.

 

Benning had some wins there, like Granlund for Shinkaruk as you list. But he has also given up inremental value on a lot of his trades. Kassian and a pick for Prust as an example.

 

Benning has had limited success with his teams. Tampa Bay has won a cup and is a perennial powerhouse. I think thats probably as good an indication as any of whoch team squeezes more value out of their assets and cap.

So, they get themselves in cap trouble and bail themselves out by giving up assets? GMs around here are threatened with burning at the stake for that kind of activity, but it's okay if TB does it? How is that being exceptional at getting value? I looked at the trade history which I added to my original post, and outside of giving up picks and value in players, I'm not sure I'm seeing what you are seeing. 

 

Look at the Feb 2020 sequence where TB acquires Greco for Martel (both minimal cap contracts), and a few days later they move Greco and a 1st(!) to SJ for Goodrow and a 3rd. Where is the value for TB, or is Goodrow better than I recall?

 

Bedtime. Thanks for chatting. 

 

                                                      regards,  G.

 

 

[BigTramFan 717]

2 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

So, they get themselves in cap trouble and bail themselves out by giving up assets? GMs around here are threatened with burning at the stake for that kind of activity, but it's okay if TB does it? How is that being exceptional at getting value? I looked at the trade history which I added to my original post, and outside of giving up picks and value in players, I'm not sure I'm seeing what you are seeing. 

 

Look at the Feb 2020 sequence where TB acquires Greco for Martel (both minimal cap contracts), and a few days later they move Greco and a 1st(!) to SJ for Goodrow and a 3rd. Where is the value for TB, or is Goodrow better than I recall?

 

Bedtime. Thanks for chatting. 

 

                                                      regards,  G.

 

 

TBL are in a very different phase than the Canucks, so they should be expected to be selling futures to stay cap compliant whilst maintaining a competitive roster for as long as possible. Good on them and I hope our future GM would do the same if we reach that stage with our roster.

 

When I look at their roster the thing that strikes me, more than good trades, is their drafting. They were built by drafting and it did not happen overnight.

 

We all know about Stamkos (1st overall, 2008), Hedman (2nd overall, 2009) and Vas (19th overall, 2012) who are core members, but TBL have done so well at finding gold in later rounds over many years:

 

Point - 3rd round pick, 2014

Kucherov - 2nd round, 2011

Palat - 7th round pick, 2011

Gourde - not drafted

Cirelli - 3rd round pick, 2015

Killorn - 3rd round pick, 2007

 

Their trading has been pretty good, especially a few where they traded highly valued assets to get players for key positions of need, e.g. Bishop for Cernak, Drouin for Sergachev, Foote for Coleman. But I still think that great drafting has been the key for them.

 

This is why JB or whoever our GM is needs to stay focused on drafting great players.