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[Trade] Canucks trade Adam Gaudette to Blackhawks for Matthew Highmore


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Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

I am was stating my opinion in the sense on my thinking that elite offensive players should only really be considered true drivers in offensive play. They do it vs the best defensive players the other team has on a nightly basis. I see Gaudette as a complementary secondary scorer who needs to play sheltered minutes and/or with good players.

 

I also stating my opinion that I wouldn't have traded Gaudette for Highmore. We had Motte/Hawryluk/Lockwood already who play similar. I would have wanted someone different as well.

 

Lind should be playing with Horvat. Kids need minutes.

 

 

I dont disagree that Gaudette is a secondary offensive player. He is still really good at generating offensive chances though. He is a guy who should be playing with better players, as Chicago seems to understand.

 

There is a reason why a lot of teams are starting to play their offensive minded, defensively lacking younger players with better players in an offensive role. It actually helps limit their defensive liability. Good offensive lines that can control the puck more have to defend less.

 

The Canucks are, based on what I have seen, one of the worst teams for getting hemmed in their own end. Thsts not the end of the ice you want guys like Gaudette playing in.

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19 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I dont disagree that Gaudette is a secondary offensive player. He is still really good at generating offensive chances though. He is a guy who should be playing with better players, as Chicago seems to understand.

 

There is a reason why a lot of teams are starting to play their offensive minded, defensively lacking younger players with better players in an offensive role. It actually helps limit their defensive liability. Good offensive lines that can control the puck more have to defend less.

 

The Canucks are, based on what I have seen, one of the worst teams for getting hemmed in their own end. Thsts not the end of the ice you want guys like Gaudette playing in.

Yeah that has more to do with the coaches and roster.

 

Pod/Hog help make a guy like Gaudette(and Virtanen for that matter) expendable. They are likely gonna be better complementary players in the top 9(top 6 after they've established themselves). We've also got guys better suited for a bottom 6 role coming up(Lind/Gadjo/etc) so losing Gaudette doesn't hurt. He's a project player for the Hawks.

 

Still, I would have liked someone different than Highmore considering we have Hawryluk/Lockwood/Motte as similar players. Could have at least gotten something we need like a physical forward/D that helps create a safe environment for stars and holds people accountable like Mac.

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8 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Pretty small sample size dont you think? Lol

 

Its easy to pick apart any player by looking at a small sample. Look at the games since the trade, Tanner Pearson has 3 points and is -9. With top 6 and top pp line time. Highmore has 1 assist and is -3 over those 10 games. In his 7 games in Chicago over that time, Gaudette has 4 points and is a -2.

 

Drake 10052021072334.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2021 at 6:09 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

I have you on ignore bud.

 

This will be the last response you ever get from me so you dont have to worry. I have no time for you.

 

13 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

:picard:

Edited by oldnews
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8 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Goldobin for Hansen trade...

 

Yeah.

 

I'll just leave that there.

Hansen played 61 games in th NHL after leaving the Canucks

Goldobin played 114 after joining the Canucks.

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8 hours ago, iinatcc said:

What about the more recent winners? It just shows how much the NCAA Hockey program has progressed that the recent winners (mostly) turned out to be elite NHL talents. 

They aren't elite because the won the Hobey Baker, they are elite because of their talent. Gaudette isn't even on their level.

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17 hours ago, oldnews said:

cool stories - but just quote someone throwing McCann under the bus - or all you're doing is creating imaginary "many of the peoples" lol...

if you can correlate just two to fit your storyline that would be a start

otherwise, cool stories guntrix.

Come on now, old. You're asking me to go fishing for posts in 2016 when you were just as active as anyone in that thread. The "it is what it is" comment never sat right with posters and the trade served as an opportunity for people to vent about him. There's no revisionism there. 

 

17 hours ago, oldnews said:

I don't see much "harshness" regarding Gaudette in here either - I see some questions of where he was supposed to fit in this group - do you have an answer for that?

See, this is what I don't understand. Why does there need to be answer for where Gaudette will fit going forward?

 

For the better part of the past 7 years, we had no idea where Virtanen's niche was in this team. Some had him slated in the top-6, others in the middle-6 and others in the bottom-6. There was literally no answer for where he fit in this group (heck, there still isn't) but that didn't stop posters from asking to give him more time to put it together. 

 

Again, different parameters are being applied to different players, which is fine, so long as people admit that there's a bit of a double standard going on. For example, pretty much everybody coincides with the fact that Eriksson was given many opportunities due to his contract. Anyone else would've already been sent packing. 

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28 minutes ago, Nucksownyou said:

They aren't elite because the won the Hobey Baker, they are elite because of their talent. Gaudette isn't even on their level.

Vesey won that award as well = got an "elite" player for nothing - on waivers. 

 

123 NHL points in 359 games = .34 ppg

A guy that can actually be a spot penalty killer - has a better two way game than Gaudette

 

Gaudette

56 NHL points in 170 NHL games = .33 ppg.

 

Negligible differences in cap hit/ terms (Vesey 900k, Gaudette 950).   Gaudette more sheltered throughout his time in the NHL....

 

 

Ermagerd - can't believe Toronto didn't get more for Vesey.

 

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5 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Vesey won that award as well = got an "elite" player for nothing - on waivers. 

 

123 NHL points in 359 games = .34 ppg

A guy that can actually be a spot penalty killer - has a better two way game than Gaudette

 

Gaudette

56 NHL points in 170 NHL games = .33 ppg.

 

Negligible differences in cap hit/ terms (Vesey 900k, Gaudette 950).   Gaudette more sheltered throughout his time in the NHL....

 

 

Ermagerd - can't believe Toronto didn't get more for Vesey.

 


If I’m not mistaken Gaudette is also eligible for arbitration in the off-season so that may also have been a factor, both in the trade and value.

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8 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Come on now, old. You're asking me to go fishing for posts

you wasted more time going on at length why you can't quote someone, ironically - than it would have taken to quote someone.

predictable - you're talking about strawpeople / imaginary categoricals - from the past...

 

waste of time.

 

Virtanen can actually - has actually played a lot of bottom six minutes - without needing to be sheltered.

The fundamental difference in how much easier it is to find a fit for Virtanen.

37.3% ozone starts this season - less than 50% for his career.

175 takeaways in 317 career games.

1.2 on ice goals against per 60 5on5 for Virtanen (1.2 for)  - in much harder minutes than Gaudette (1.2 for, 3.0 against)....both outcomes relatively consistent with their larger sample.

People can criticize Virtanen - fairly - all they want - but he's more versatile - not a one dimensional top 6 or bust type player - that needs sheltering/vacant without the puck.  If you're looking for irony / double-standards - there are countless people that consider Jake "vacant" - and who had Gaudette pencilled in as a 3C years ago....a plain vacant take that was hopelessly premature.   Jake's path to a top 6 RW spot - like Gaudette's, was closing in - with Boeser, Hoglander (Podkolzin, Lind) in the mix - but unlike Gaudette, Virtanen isn't a liability in harder minutes in the bottom six.

That's the simple difference between the two players - ie far easier to find a fit for Virtanen moving forward - and as you point out - people had him slated all over the lineup.  Gaudette does not have that ability - plain and simple.

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2 hours ago, coryberg said:

 

Drake 10052021072334.jpg

I dont have any pictures but:

 

1. Says its a small sample size

 

2. Shows that you can do the same with any player.

 

I wasnt proving a point about the players, I was simply showing how easy it is to manipulate data based on small sample sizes bud.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Completely different circumstances.

 

Goldobin had not had a full nhl season under his belt to show if he could score at the nhl level. He was simply a prospect at that point.

 

Hansen was not a 4th line energy guy either and was much older. 

 

That trade was a vet for a prospect.

 

The Gaudette/Highmore trade was a young nhl player for another nhl player with two different skill sets.

 

Apples and oranges but nice try.

Ok, I like your posts, but you have clearly changed the parameters of your argument now.

 

Why would SJ trade 'down' to get an old Hansen while getting rid of Goldobin, who looked like he was on the cusp of being an NHL regular? Keep in mind Goldobin was a proven AHLer.

 

The end result was that the trade didn't work out for either of the texams. Vancouver arguably had the best return for Hansen. If SJ had won the cup that year, Vancouver would even get an extra ppick

 

The Gaudette and Highmore trade is no more riskier than the Goldobin trade. However, we will have to see how the trade actually plays out.

Edited by Dazzle
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9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

you wasted more time going on at length why you can't quote someone, ironically - than it would have taken to quote someone.

predictable - you're talking about strawpeople / imaginary categoricals - from the past...

 

waste of time.

 

Virtanen can actually - has actually played a lot of bottom six minutes - without needing to be sheltered.

The fundamental difference in how much easier it is to find a fit for Virtanen.

37.3% ozone starts this season - less than 50% for his career.

175 takeaways in 317 career games.

1.2 on ice goals against per 60 5on5 for Virtanen (1.2 for)  - in much harder minutes than Gaudette (1.2 for, 3.0 against)....both outcomes relatively consistent with their larger sample.

People can criticize Virtanen - fairly - all they want - but he's more versatile - not a one dimensional top 6 or bust type player - that needs sheltering/vacant without the puck.  If you're looking for irony / double-standards - there are countless people that consider Jake "vacant" - and who had Gaudette pencilled in as a 3C years ago....a plain vacant take that was hopelessly premature.   Jake's path to a top 6 RW spot - like Gaudette's, was closing in - with Boeser, Hoglander (Podkolzin, Lind) in the mix - but unlike Gaudette, Virtanen isn't a liability in harder minutes in the bottom six.

That's the simple difference between the two players - ie far easier to find a fit for Virtanen moving forward - and as you point out - people had him slated all over the lineup.  Gaudette does not have that ability - plain and simple.

Will be interesting to see how this little break effects Jake. If, and it's a big if, he ever wears the Canucks jersey again. Maybe this ordeal will help him grow. I'm willing to give him one more chance. I know, he's been given ample opportunity but if he isn't claimed by Seattle I would give him another shot. Pending his investigation of course. 

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6 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Yeah that has more to do with the coaches and roster.

 

Pod/Hog help make a guy like Gaudette(and Virtanen for that matter) expendable. They are likely gonna be better complementary players in the top 9(top 6 after they've established themselves). We've also got guys better suited for a bottom 6 role coming up(Lind/Gadjo/etc) so losing Gaudette doesn't hurt. He's a project player for the Hawks.

 

Still, I would have liked someone different than Highmore considering we have Hawryluk/Lockwood/Motte as similar players. Could have at least gotten something we need like a physical forward/D that helps create a safe environment for stars and holds people accountable like Mac.

The left wings on this team are underwhelming offensively. Right wing is pretty set now and going forward. We have a real hole at center.

 

Gaudette is playing mostly lw with Chicago,  something I dont recall ever being tried much by the Canucks. Would having another offensive minded lw make it possible to use EP, Horvat, and Miller all at center and all with a young guy or even two on their line to help balance out the scoring a bit more? Maybe.

 

As it stands we have Highmore, Mac, etc getting top 6 time. Not sure how thats better than the alternative could have been. At the very least it was worth a look.

 

My point isnt that losing Gaudette is a huge deal. Its not. The return is the problem.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Bo and Brock were near NHL caliber players when they got drafted and they also figured things out faster. Makrstrom was coached by the goalie coaches which Vancouver has done great with actually.

 

But what about these players that haven't figured it out yet and either need time or need the organization to support their development? Guys like McCann, Virtanen, Juolevi, and Gaudette who haven't fully figure it out yet? 

I think the "near elite" classification is kind of pointless in an argument; someone like Boucher (Utica player) had all the pieces to be an elite sniper, except his skating (which was actually the knock on Boeser, as well as Bo). Therefore, many players/prospects fall in this category of being "elite", which kind of waters down the meaning of the word.

 

If every player that was rated highly, why do some of them end up being busts, even though they were all pegged to be "elite" talent?

 

I think every player has the potential to be an excellent NHLer. A first round pick is just a pick. It doesn't guarantee anything. Someone can be elite and yet come from out of nowhere, seemingly.

 

Hard work and dedication is the X factor for these players who graduate to the NHL, imo.

 

 

Edited by Dazzle
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6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Ok, I like your posts, but you have clearly changed the parameters of your argument now.

 

Why would SJ trade 'down' to get an old Hansen while getting rid of Goldobin, who looked like he was on the cusp of being an NHL regular? Keep in mind Goldobin was a proven AHLer.

 

The end result was that the trade didn't work out for either of the texams. Vancouver arguably had the best return for Hansen. If SJ had won the cup that year, Vancouver would even get an extra ppick

 

The Gaudette and Highmore trade is no more riskier than the Goldobin trade. However, we will have to see how the trade actually plays out.

A team trading a two way vet for a pure offensive prospect is different than a team trading a 24 year old full time nhl player for a 25 year old part time nhl energy player.

 

I thought i explained that pretty well but if you dont see it, then further explaining wont help.

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2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The left wings on this team are underwhelming offensively. Right wing is pretty set now and going forward. We have a real hole at center.

 

Gaudette is playing mostly lw with Chicago,  something I dont recall ever being tried much by the Canucks. Would having another offensive minded lw make it possible to use EP, Horvat, and Miller all at center and all with a young guy or even two on their line to help balance out the scoring a bit more? Maybe.

 

As it stands we have Highmore, Mac, etc getting top 6 time. Not sure how thats better than the alternative could have been. At the very least it was worth a look.

 

My point isnt that losing Gaudette is a huge deal. Its not. The return is the problem.

This is only temporary until Podkolzin arrives and Lind becomes more of a regular.  Boeser, Podkolzin and Lind should be our 3 RW's in the top 9 with MacEwen and Lockwood competing for the 4th RW spot.  Same on the left side.  I can see Gadjovich taking a spot next year and Benning has re-signed Pearson, so with Hoglander and Motte that also takes up the 4 spots along with Highmore competing for a 4th line spot.  

 

At centre unless we make a trade I can definitely see us going with Petey, BO and Miller up the middle with Graovac or a UFA taking the 4th spot.

 

Our lineup will be alot younger next year.  It's time to play the kids and see what they got.

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3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Hard work and dedication is the X factor for these players who graduate to the NHL, imo.

But isn't that in part why bottom 6 players were signed ? To bring out that work ethic on these young guys? 

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