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[Trade] Canucks trade Adam Gaudette to Blackhawks for Matthew Highmore


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2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

You could have EASILY applied this level of logic on Goldobin who looked practically like he was going to be an NHL player, given some patience. We EASILY could have applied this level of logic for the Clendening trade.  Hindsight doesn't look very kind in any of these situations.

 

We EASILY could have applied this level of logic for the Dahlin trade.

 

You are just not getting it. You already have formed an opinion (due to bias) on a situation that is STILL developing. To say "it looks like a bad trade" is hilarious because we've seen how long for all of us to conclusively determine a trade.

 

Here's what we know. Gaudette didn't fit on this team. His alleged offensive abilities did not fit on this team. Even when he was producing (which he wasn't), he did not help the team in other ways. He doesn't PK, and his defensive game is suspect. Sounds A LOT like Goldobin in that regard. Now that he's in Chicago, he has had some points, but he is still being sheltered on Chicago.

 

Some apples and oranges comparisons. My point is that we cannot effectively judge this trade until many years from now. The Goldobin/Hansen trade took a while to figure out. This is the same for Gaudette. The fact that you said it "looks" like a bad trade is laughable. Laughable.

 

Goldobin's numbers:

 

https://www.nhl.com/player/nikolay-goldobin-8477958

 

Gaudette's numbers:

https://www.nhl.com/player/adam-gaudette-8478874

 

Formatting issues

         

Honestly bud, if you cant tell the difference between a pure prospect with mo nhl track record and a guy who actually has shown he can produce at the nhl level I think we can agree to disagree.

 

Not every player in the nhl penalty kills or is stellar defensively. The Canucks didnt need another forward who can pk, they need more that can score.

 

Some trades look bad as soon as you make them. Like this one. Sometimes they look better later, sometimes they don't. Someone saying this is a good trade right now (citing that Gaudette is garbage or whatever their reasoning is) is no different than me saying its a bad trade. I have not seen you call that opinion laughable even once. So as long as we are talking about bias I think you might be calling the kettle black bud. 

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4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Honestly bud, if you cant tell the difference between a pure prospect with mo nhl track record and a guy who actually has shown he can produce at the nhl level I think we can agree to disagree.

 

Not every player in the nhl penalty kills or is stellar defensively. The Canucks didnt need another forward who can pk, they need more that can score.

 

Some trades look bad as soon as you make them. Like this one. Sometimes they look better later, sometimes they don't. Someone saying this is a good trade right now (citing that Gaudette is garbage or whatever their reasoning is) is no different than me saying its a bad trade. I have not seen you call that opinion laughable even once. So as long as we are talking about bias I think you might be calling the kettle black bud. 

We can have different opinions about something, but deal with the same facts.

 

We know that Gaudette wasn't a fit here. Whether this was on Green or some other underlying factor, we won't likely know. One thing that Benning seemed to be alluding to about his comments was that Gaudette didn't appear to improve beyond what the Canucks had hoped. Benning didn't even try to say a good thing about him, which leads me to think there were other reasons behind it. But enough about my speculation.

 

Given that you are likely a fan of Gaudette (I'm not a hater of the guy because I hoped he'd be someone of a special player for us), you are saying that the could've played better for us if he was given more minutes. Yet he was given some opportunities to play up the roster especially when Boeser/Hoglander weren't playing that great. Hell they tried Virtanen too.

 

We will have to see down the road if Gaudette is a good or bad trade. It doesn't look like anything at this point because of how small of a sample this is. We will just have to agree to disagree until more evidence is there to suggest this was a bad trade or not.

 

For all we know, Gaudette could end up being a bust for Chicago as well, thus your opinion that this looks like a bad trade is too early to call. That will be all I will comment on this with you.

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Like, moral of the story - sell high if you want to move a young player.  I know this, the people of this board (should) know this, yet the crooks running this team don't seem to get it.

 

This team waited until Gaudette's stock was so low to move him.  Bunch of amateurs running the team LOL.

 

 

Yeah, or maybe the trade value was crap to begin with. What is this proof that he had high value?

 

Any amateur can trade Motte for a high first round pick. Yes?

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9 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Yeah, or maybe the trade value was crap to begin with. What is this proof that he had high value?

 

Any amateur can trade Motte for a high first round pick. Yes?

But I was told Gaudette was a great pick?  I was told that he was the steal of the draft and a testament to Benning's draft skill.  Did Jim's fanboys lie to me about him?  Maybe his trade value was bad because...wait for it...he was also bad?

 

No matter which way you try to spin it, the truth just come out.  You and many others just blindly support everything/everyone Benning touches until they're gone.  Gaudette was a high point for Benning when he was here, and now that he's not here, Benning was suddenly in the right to move him.

 

Must be nice to always change the narrative.

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10 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

We can have different opinions about something, but deal with the same facts.

 

We know that Gaudette wasn't a fit here. Whether this was on Green or some other underlying factor, we won't likely know. One thing that Benning seemed to be alluding to about his comments was that Gaudette didn't appear to improve beyond what the Canucks had hoped. Benning didn't even try to say a good thing about him, which leads me to think there were other reasons behind it. But enough about my speculation.

 

Given that you are likely a fan of Gaudette (I'm not a hater of the guy because I hoped he'd be someone of a special player for us), you are saying that the could've played better for us if he was given more minutes. Yet he was given some opportunities to play up the roster especially when Boeser/Hoglander weren't playing that great. Hell they tried Virtanen too.

 

We will have to see down the road if Gaudette is a good or bad trade. It doesn't look like anything at this point because of how small of a sample this is. We will just have to agree to disagree until more evidence is there to suggest this was a bad trade or not.

 

For all we know, Gaudette could end up being a bust for Chicago as well, thus your opinion that this looks like a bad trade is too early to call. That will be all I will comment on this with you.

 

 

 

 

A couple of things.

 

I am not really a Gaudette fan boy tbh. I dont think he is the next coming of McDavid but I dont think he is the next coming of Goldobin either. 

 

Like I said, he was used improperly most of his time in Van. He was never cut out to be a 3rd line defensive center and why Benning and Hreen werd stuck on that becoming a thing was mind boggling. It just didnt fit with what his strengths and weaknesses are.

 

If you would rather see defensively safe guys like Highmore, Motte, etc in our top 6, that is fine. The reality is 7 years of it and we are still bottom of the league. I personally prefer a top 6 that can score consistently outside 3 players.

 

Like I have said MANY TIMES, judging a trade in the short term, based on current circumstances, needs of the team, etc is still valid and very different than judging it over the long term, which is also valid.

 

In the short term, our team lost a young offensive player who was not given a true top 6 opportunity for yet another grinder who - inexplicably - is now getting a top 6 time. We already have more than enough of those players on the roster anx none have proven to help scoring playing in the top 6.

 

Respond if you want but we can agree to disagree. The reality is no matter how this or any trade turns out, its impossible for some to ever consider a trade a loss for Benning. I mean, look at all the ones we already have long term results of that were garbage yet are still defended as good. People always find reasons and data to support their pre determined conclusion. I dont know how this trade will look down the road, I just think it looks bad now.

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I have articulated my points on this trade and on Gaudette. There is no point continuing to make the same points over and over. Some people need to believe everything Benning does is great and in the process crap on other people's opinions who dont agree. I am not one of those people. You have the right to think Benning is great, I have the right to think he is one of if not the worst gm in the nhl on balance of his work.

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Highmore starting to grow on me. Liked his last couple games. Hopefully he keeps it up. 
 

Was Gaudette scratched in Chicago’s last game? Must still be adjusting to new life in Chicago. Wonder if he grows his game or not? 
 

Be interesting to keep following these players over the next couple years 

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6 hours ago, guntrix said:

Come on old, it's almost like you think I joined this forum yesterday.

Anyone worth their salt on here knows about your uncanny ability to flatter any player you fancy with out-of-context stats.

I smell another substance-free guntrix narrative - with no objective outcome counterpoints (out of context - delicious ironing).

sorry - not gonna waste my time reading any further.   cheers.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Well someone confimred it came from Elliot Friedman ... so that's a reliable source as it's going to get IMO. 

if that is/were true - then Gaudette can bust rocks. (and you regard EF more highly than I do, but that's beside the point).

had literally nothing to complain about regarding his opportunities here - I'd argue Green gave him too much.

What exactly was he expecting?  2nd line C minutes?  more 3C minutes? top 6 RW minutes?  none of it a whiff realistic.

if true - glad they moved him - his value on the market ought to give him a better estimation of the opportunities he deserved.

how much is he playing in Chicago, btw?

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22 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I smell another substance-free guntrix narrative - with no objective outcome counterpoints (out of context - delicious ironing).

sorry - not gonna waste my time reading any further.   cheers.

Lol. Imagine posting out-of-context stat takes, having them backfire on you multiple times, and still thinking you can get away with it. Talk about banking on ignorance. 

 

But you're right, it's not worth my time. Posters are catching on. I just hope you don't disappear on us again if another one of your takes ages badly. 

 

Cheers. 

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1 hour ago, Alain Vigneault said:

But I was told Gaudette was a great pick?  I was told that he was the steal of the draft and a testament to Benning's draft skill.  Did Jim's fanboys lie to me about him?  Maybe his trade value was bad because...wait for it...he was also bad?

 

No matter which way you try to spin it, the truth just come out.  You and many others just blindly support everything/everyone Benning touches until they're gone.  Gaudette was a high point for Benning when he was here, and now that he's not here, Benning was suddenly in the right to move him.

 

Must be nice to always change the narrative.

Gaudette was still a good pick. The problem was that he no longer fit the team.

 

So how can he be a bad pick when others are talking about his (early) successes in Chicago?

 

Makes you wonder...

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6 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Lol. Imagine posting out-of-context stat takes, having them backfire on you multiple times, and still thinking you can get away with it. Talk about banking on ignorance. 

 

But you're right, it's not worth my time. Posters are catching on. I just hope you don't disappear on us again if another one of your takes ages badly. 

 

Cheers. 

Lots of people disappear when they turn out to be wrong.

 

Then you have people like Provost that will insist that the sky is red after being told that the sky is blue because of his fragile ego.

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3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Gaudette was still a good pick. The problem was that he no longer fit the team.

 

So how can he be a bad pick when others are talking about his (early) successes in Chicago?

 

Makes you wonder...

On a team infested with plugs and grinders and overpaid anchors, outside of about 4-5 players, how did he no longer fit the team?  We're a team that lacks skill and he's skilled guy so I'm not sure you could argue he was no longer a fit (at least not from a role perspective).

 

It's completely plausible to admit that he was never a surefire great player and overrated by the Jimbo posse so it was best to move him on, but again, that would go against everything the Benning brigade used to say about Gaudette and would be conveniently stated now that he's no longer a member of the team.

 

Hope this helps.

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51 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

On a team infested with plugs and grinders and overpaid anchors, outside of about 4-5 players, how did he no longer fit the team?  We're a team that lacks skill and he's skilled guy so I'm not sure you could argue he was no longer a fit (at least not from a role perspective).

 

It's completely plausible to admit that he was never a surefire great player and overrated by the Jimbo posse so it was best to move him on, but again, that would go against everything the Benning brigade used to say about Gaudette and would be conveniently stated now that he's no longer a member of the team.

 

Hope this helps.

Hope this helps.

 

Gaudette has holes in his games on a team that evidently has many holes. If you're looking to fix a ship with holes, what do you do?

 

It's hard to say he'd be a surefire great player as you say, considering he started as a 5th rounder. But it does speak to the fact that he has gotten to this point.

 

So you can't have things both ways, Alain. You can't be bashing one of many prospects who made the NHL, and turn around and call foul at the people who note the holes in his game.

 

Seems like honesty is your kryptonite. Indeed, you can't help yourself from slagging at a GM, while trying (and failing) to downplay his picks at the same time. You should realize that Benning has done a much much much better job at drafting and developing, even without his 'high end' first round picks.

 

Some GMs have completely missed...

 

Contrary to popular opinion, the team that Benning inherited was in shambles. While Benning hasn't done himself favours, the next GM, whoever it will be, will be happy to peruse the amount of developed players from Benning's regime.

 

I mean, Demko wasn't a first round pick either. Often the people criticizing Benning love to make up excuses and say he benefited from high draft picks. 

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4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Hope this helps.

 

Gaudette has holes in his games on a team that evidently has many holes. If you're looking to fix a ship with holes, what do you do?

 

It's hard to say he'd be a surefire great player as you say, considering he started as a 5th rounder. But it does speak to the fact that he has gotten to this point.

 

So you can't have things both ways, Alain. You can't be bashing one of many prospects who made the NHL, and turn around and call foul at the people who note the holes in his game.

 

Seems like honesty is your kryptonite. Indeed, you can't help yourself from slagging at a GM, while trying (and failing) to downplay his picks at the same time. You should realize that Benning has done a much much much better job at drafting and developing, even without his 'high end' first round picks.

 

Some GMs have completely missed...

 

Contrary to popular opinion, the team that Benning inherited was in shambles. While Benning hasn't done himself favours, the next GM, whoever it will be, will be happy to peruse the amount of developed players from Benning's regime.

 

I mean, Demko wasn't a first round pick either. Often the people criticizing Benning love to make up excuses and say he benefited from high draft picks. 

But this just proves what I've been saying.  It's easy to state the truth now about Gaudette - now that he's gone and the homer glasses are off - rather than before whilst he was a member of this team.  My issue is and always has been with those who have suddenly changed the narrative on this player and previously acted like he didn't have these holes in his game simply because he won a Hobey Baker and was a Benning pick.  it's no surprise that those who are guilty of this also happen to be Benning's most ardent supporters.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact Benning and co. sold low on him.  Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with but we can't look at his 2020 season (30 pts in 50-something games) and say his value stayed the same after the season he was having this year.  His stock took a hit and the management team bailed.  That's bad asset management and there's no excuses.  We can be fortunate it was just Gaudette and not somebody like Tyler Seguin - a guy Benning couldn't wait to trade away after a dip in form - while he was a part of Boston's setup.

 

Hope this helps.

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22 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

But this just proves what I've been saying.  It's easy to state the truth now about Gaudette - now that he's gone and the homer glasses are off - rather than before whilst he was a member of this team.  My issue is and always has been with those who have suddenly changed the narrative on this player and previously acted like he didn't have these holes in his game simply because he won a Hobey Baker and was a Benning pick.  it's no surprise that those who are guilty of this also happen to be Benning's most ardent supporters.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact Benning and co. sold low on him.  Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with but we can't look at his 2020 season (30 pts in 50-something games) and say his value stayed the same after the season he was having this year.  His stock took a hit and the management team bailed.  That's bad asset management and there's no excuses.  We can be fortunate it was just Gaudette and not somebody like Tyler Seguin - a guy Benning couldn't wait to trade away after a dip in form - while he was a part of Boston's setup.

 

Hope this helps.

Oh puhleeze. The excitement for players - especially those who show a hint of promise - is normal for a fanbase. Normal. This has literally nothing to do with "Benning's most ardent supporters". :rolleyes:

 

Second point - you literally contradicted yourself.

 

"Benning sold low on him".

 

"Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with, but we can't look at his 2020 season..."

 

PERHAPS that the value wasn't that high to begin with. If you had just stopped there, instead of coming up with justifications for your perspective, you'd be good. Instead, you get into this confirmation bias. "Well he has 30 points in 50 something games.". Maybe it's MORE than just scoreboard watching. The guy is getting points while being defensively irresponsible.


Look at freaking Patrik Laine. He has the tools to be a superstar, but his reputation that he has a below average defensive game precedes him. I'm not saying Gaudette is/was Laine. But Laine is 10 times the player that Gaudette is right now, and the heat is STILL on him for not doing more to help his team. So why should Gaudette get special treatment?

 

Until Gaudette fixes his game, he is a tweener. But he's still a good pick for a 5th rounder. Hutton's also a pretty good pick too. That is undeniable. Why is it that you have to die on a hill about Benning picking Gaudette in the 5th round, and then try to spin it like he's an incompetent drafter? Check your bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_Vancouver_Canucks_season

After reading this article, it reminded me of how bad our prospect pool has been. The Free Agents signed that year... yeah... just bad. At least they were cheap.

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5 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

But this just proves what I've been saying.  It's easy to state the truth now about Gaudette - now that he's gone and the homer glasses are off - rather than before whilst he was a member of this team.  My issue is and always has been with those who have suddenly changed the narrative on this player and previously acted like he didn't have these holes in his game simply because he won a Hobey Baker and was a Benning pick.  it's no surprise that those who are guilty of this also happen to be Benning's most ardent supporters.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact Benning and co. sold low on him.  Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with but we can't look at his 2020 season (30 pts in 50-something games) and say his value stayed the same after the season he was having this year.  His stock took a hit and the management team bailed.  That's bad asset management and there's no excuses.  We can be fortunate it was just Gaudette and not somebody like Tyler Seguin - a guy Benning couldn't wait to trade away after a dip in form - while he was a part of Boston's setup.

 

Hope this helps.

Hope this helps.

 

was GM Jim supposed to trade gaudette at the trade deadline last year? this was likely his high point. let you in on a secret veterans are cheaper to be rented than RFA'S. Gaudette was not a good deadline deal candidate, and if he was traded he would be traded for another prospect. His value would be similar to another over performing late round pick or maybe a 25 year old under performing 2nd round pick.

 

being a healthy scratch during the playoffs and scoring 0 points in Ten GP, racking up a astounding 4 shots. his value dropped. was he supposed to trade him here?

 

After gaudette came out with his illness that hurts his chances of digesting food properly,  his value dropped further. was he  supposed to trade him here?

 

Gaudette opened the season terribly scoring 2g in 14 games and was a -9 he was then a healthy scratch for 4 games. was he  supposed to trade him here?

 

Gaudette next month he scored  1G 3A in 13 games and was a -2. was he  supposed to trade him here?

 

Gaudette next month  before the covid  situation he scored  1G in  6 games and  was  a  -3. He was traded for Highmore.

 

you all never considered that gaudette was likely going to get  many chances in the top six until hoglander came around, and that was the reason he was brought back and not sold in the off season.

 

He  wasn't traded last deadline, because he was actually a positive contributor on our team at deadline, and hello! we were fighting for a playoff spot 2nd place in the division.

 

Gaudette played so bad in this season that  TDL was likely his highest value during this season.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Lots of people disappear when they turn out to be wrong.

 

 

I don't disappear - ever - not as long as I'm still breathing.  In fact I think you'd find I'm more active in  here when things are not going so well - and am never shy about giving a fair shake to this market's favorite whipping boys.  Never a fan of playing our players off each other, or merely cherry pick star-gazing the easy fanboy attachments at the top of the roster.

But yeah - let's talk about Gudbranson - again - in every thread....not a word about Highmore - what was posted - not a single counterpoint - just an absolute necro waste of time.

I laugh at people that make absurd "you were wrong" claims - without quoting anything - without responding to a single point - without posting objective outcomes to counterpoint (no one ever engages with the actual points regarding Gudbranson - good and bad - they just :frantic: and spew endless, pointless one-liners  - doing as guntrix does  - buried in endless narratives that are as tangible as a wallstreet ramble.  Not surprising that speaks to him/his language.  Complete waste of time.  I'll respond once, twice, three times - but it never gets any less pointless.

 

Read his handful of posts in this thread and try to find a word of substance.

Here's as close as you'll get...

 

Quote

I specifically remember a discussion (though I admittedly don't remember who it was exactly, so don't take this one personally) where someone argued that Jake's shot was elite because he had a high shot accuracy %

 

If you can find a word regarding Highmore anywhere  -  in the Highmore trade thread lol - you've managed something.

You're welcome to engage it if you're 'accountable' enough, lol.

Edited by oldnews
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11 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

But this just proves what I've been saying.  It's easy to state the truth now about Gaudette - now that he's gone and the homer glasses are off - rather than before whilst he was a member of this team.  My issue is and always has been with those who have suddenly changed the narrative on this player and previously acted like he didn't have these holes in his game simply because he won a Hobey Baker and was a Benning pick.  it's no surprise that those who are guilty of this also happen to be Benning's most ardent supporters.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact Benning and co. sold low on him.  Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with but we can't look at his 2020 season (30 pts in 50-something games) and say his value stayed the same after the season he was having this year.  His stock took a hit and the management team bailed.  That's bad asset management and there's no excuses.  We can be fortunate it was just Gaudette and not somebody like Tyler Seguin - a guy Benning couldn't wait to trade away after a dip in form - while he was a part of Boston's setup.

 

Hope this helps.

Some of us don't live in a black and white world.

 

I can both praise management for getting good value out of a 5th round pick, for a player who looked quite promising a couple years ago, but never took that next step.

 

I have also been quite clear he didn't appear to be a long term fit, last season, long before this trade FWIW.

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