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[Trade] Canucks trade Adam Gaudette to Blackhawks for Matthew Highmore


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11 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

But this just proves what I've been saying.  It's easy to state the truth now about Gaudette - now that he's gone and the homer glasses are off - rather than before whilst he was a member of this team.  My issue is and always has been with those who have suddenly changed the narrative on this player and previously acted like he didn't have these holes in his game simply because he won a Hobey Baker and was a Benning pick.  it's no surprise that those who are guilty of this also happen to be Benning's most ardent supporters.

 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact Benning and co. sold low on him.  Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with but we can't look at his 2020 season (30 pts in 50-something games) and say his value stayed the same after the season he was having this year.  His stock took a hit and the management team bailed.  That's bad asset management and there's no excuses.  We can be fortunate it was just Gaudette and not somebody like Tyler Seguin - a guy Benning couldn't wait to trade away after a dip in form - while he was a part of Boston's setup.

 

Hope this helps.

Some of us don't live in a black and white world.

 

I can both praise management for getting good value out of a 5th round pick, for a player who looked quite promising a couple years ago, but never took that next step.

 

I have also been quite clear he didn't appear to be a long term fit, last season, long before this trade FWIW.

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53 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I don't disappear - ever - not as long as I'm still breathing.

But yeah - let's talk about Gudbranson - again - in every thread....not a word about Highmore - what was posted - not a single counterpoint - just an absolute necro waste of time.

I laugh at people that make absurd "you were wrong" claims - without quoting anything - without responding to a single point - without posting objective outcomes to counterpoint (no one ever engages with the actual points regarding Gudbranson - good and bad - they just :frantic: and spew endless, pointless one-liners  - doing as guntrix does  - buried in endless narratives that are as tangible as a wallstreet ramble.  Not surprising that speaks to him/his language.  Complete waste of time.  I'll respond once, twice, three times - but it never gets any less pointless.

 

Read his handful of posts in this thread and try to find a word of substance.

Here's as close as you'll get...

 

Definition of accountability: the state of being accountable or when an individual experiences consequences for their actions. 

 

Don't play coy, old. This is not about counterpointing. The only reason I mentioned Gudbranson and Sbisa was because you took the same approach with those two and after wasting years of my life arguing with you it turned out you were completely off. It's bewildering how you think I'd spend months (probably years knowing you) entertaining it again, though I'm surprised posters are still falling for it.

 

And about Highmore - I said this trade was too premature to gauge a winner. Maybe you should make sure you read the actual posts in their entirety instead of winding yourself up over your past mistakes. 

 

Spoiler

And yes, you took a small hiatus after the Gudbranson debacle. Your pride really hurt after that one, eh? 

 

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11 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Oh puhleeze. The excitement for players - especially those who show a hint of promise - is normal for a fanbase. Normal. This has literally nothing to do with "Benning's most ardent supporters". :rolleyes:

 

Second point - you literally contradicted yourself.

 

"Benning sold low on him".

 

"Perhaps his value was never that high to begin with, but we can't look at his 2020 season..."

 

PERHAPS that the value wasn't that high to begin with. If you had just stopped there, instead of coming up with justifications for your perspective, you'd be good. Instead, you get into this confirmation bias. "Well he has 30 points in 50 something games.". Maybe it's MORE than just scoreboard watching. The guy is getting points while being defensively irresponsible.


Look at freaking Patrik Laine. He has the tools to be a superstar, but his reputation that he has a below average defensive game precedes him. I'm not saying Gaudette is/was Laine. But Laine is 10 times the player that Gaudette is right now, and the heat is STILL on him for not doing more to help his team. So why should Gaudette get special treatment?

 

Until Gaudette fixes his game, he is a tweener. But he's still a good pick for a 5th rounder. Hutton's also a pretty good pick too. That is undeniable. Why is it that you have to die on a hill about Benning picking Gaudette in the 5th round, and then try to spin it like he's an incompetent drafter? Check your bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_Vancouver_Canucks_season

After reading this article, it reminded me of how bad our prospect pool has been. The Free Agents signed that year... yeah... just bad. At least they were cheap.

Lol.. a contradiction?  Well, when you deliberately decontextualize what it is your're reading, of course you'll arrive at that conclusion.  It's quite clear that I'm speaking from a point of comparison between his season last year and his season this year, and not his career value as a whole.  The fact still stands that his value dipped this year from where it was last year and a decision was made on that.

 

Who said anything about Benning being an incompetent drafter?  My whole thing in this thread has been about his bootlicking fans who act like he's a genius.  I've been commentating on those who say he's a genius for drafting Gaudette and now say he's a genius for trading him (for virtually nothing), pointing out the inconsistencies in their logic.  I haven't said anything about Benning's drafting ability.  Seems you're projecting again..lmfao.

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4 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

Hope this helps.

 

was GM Jim supposed to trade gaudette at the trade deadline last year? this was likely his high point. let you in on a secret veterans are cheaper to be rented than RFA'S. Gaudette was not a good deadline deal candidate, and if he was traded he would be traded for another prospect. His value would be similar to another over performing late round pick or maybe a 25 year old under performing 2nd round pick.

 

being a healthy scratch during the playoffs and scoring 0 points in Ten GP, racking up a astounding 4 shots. his value dropped. was he supposed to trade him here?

 

After gaudette came out with his illness that hurts his chances of digesting food properly,  his value dropped further. was he  supposed to trade him here?

 

Gaudette opened the season terribly scoring 2g in 14 games and was a -9 he was then a healthy scratch for 4 games. was he  supposed to trade him here?

 

Gaudette next month he scored  1G 3A in 13 games and was a -2. was he  supposed to trade him here?

 

Gaudette next month  before the covid  situation he scored  1G in  6 games and  was  a  -3. He was traded for Highmore.

 

you all never considered that gaudette was likely going to get  many chances in the top six until hoglander came around, and that was the reason he was brought back and not sold in the off season.

 

He  wasn't traded last deadline, because he was actually a positive contributor on our team at deadline, and hello! we were fighting for a playoff spot 2nd place in the division.

 

Gaudette played so bad in this season that  TDL was likely his highest value during this season.

 

 

 

What a bunch of mindless drivel.

 

Like, the last sentence alone is just pure comedy.  He played so bad...that his value reached a peak?

 

You and I both know that's just blasphemy lmfao.

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Some of us don't live in a black and white world.

 

I can both praise management for getting good value out of a 5th round pick, for a player who looked quite promising a couple years ago, but never took that next step.

 

I have also been quite clear he didn't appear to be a long term fit, last season, long before this trade FWIW.

Ok but I never said Gaudette was a horrible pick.  I've been critical of the fans who acted like he was a steal and have now changed their tone on him.

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1 minute ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Ok but I never said Gaudette was a horrible pick.  I've been critical of the fans who acted like he was a steal and have now changed their tone on him.

What exactly is 'wrong' with recognizing that he was an excellent 5th round pick and promising young player who unfortunately stalled in his progression, had an abysmal defensive game and wasn't a long term fit here?

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45 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Lol.. a contradiction?  Well, when you deliberately decontextualize what it is your're reading, of course you'll arrive at that conclusion.  It's quite clear that I'm speaking from a point of comparison between his season last year and his season this year, and not his career value as a whole.  The fact still stands that his value dipped this year from where it was last year and a decision was made on that.

 

Who said anything about Benning being an incompetent drafter?  My whole thing in this thread has been about his bootlicking fans who act like he's a genius.  I've been commentating on those who say he's a genius for drafting Gaudette and now say he's a genius for trading him (for virtually nothing), pointing out the inconsistencies in their logic.  I haven't said anything about Benning's drafting ability.  Seems you're projecting again..lmfao.

Actually, there is nothing inconsistent about criticizing a prospect/player. The only thing consistent is you going after a certain GM, even if you're on weak ground. Gaudette is a good pick, no matter how you slice it, and if you were to look at that draft year in that round or later, you'd be hard pressed to find someone else better in that spot.

 

That being said, he no longer fit the team. Do you really have that much of a difficulty separating the two dimensions?

 

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

What exactly is 'wrong' with recognizing that he was an excellent 5th round pick and promising young player who unfortunately stalled in his progression, had an abysmal defensive game and wasn't a long term fit here?

Because the backtracking and change of mind that has come about has not been genuine.  Fans here lauded Gaudette as this steal for his whole time here.  Fans (typically the Benning supporters) consistently used this pick as a benchmark for drafting success.  It is a "success" to get games out of a pick, but the tone here was that Benning was genius for this pick rather than a professional who simply listened to his scouts and did their homework.

 

It's all hypothetical but ask fans a week before the TDL if they would have moved Gaudette for a player with a low ceiling/"safer" chance of making the NHL in some capacity and the answer would have been a resounding "no".  The people claiming to like Highmore/applauding management for moving Gaudette are simply changing their narrative because it fits the support for the GM.  None of it has anything to do with the players at hand.

 

That's what I've been criticizing this whole time.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

What a bunch of mindless drivel.

 

Like, the last sentence alone is just pure comedy.  He played so bad...that his value reached a peak?

 

You and I both know that's just blasphemy lmfao.

 

 I may have worded it bad but his play did improve from the beginning of the season, 2G,2A in -4 in his last 19 games. his low point was probably at game 14 when he was scratched.

 

 benning decided on seeing if gaudette could improve on his playoff season, I would have done the same thing. there was likely little interest in him preseason when you could just sign soderberg for a mill, or literally have the choice between 102 RFA'S not qualified

 

these are just the decent 24 year olds

carter verhaeghe 1 million

duclair signed for 1.65 mill

dominik Kahun signed for 750k

lucas wallmark signed for 950K

jayce Hawryluk signed for 875k

mark Jankowski signed for 700K

 

no one would have gave crap for gaudette preseason

 

there was literally only one time to trade him where we would have gotten better value. that was last year at the TDL

 

and I'm guessing that there will be better RFA'S not qualified again next year. Gaudette if he gets a contract will be signed as depth, i'm thinking this is his last year in the NHL.

Edited by Petey_BOI
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Gaudette reminds me of Ben Hutton in a lot of ways.

 

I think Ben's was brighter - his weakness wasn't necessarily the inability to think the defensive game (Hutton had more problems with composure / making puck moving decisions - not really a vacancy/liability without the puck = moreso when he had it on his stick in his own end of the ice) - but regardless, otherwise some similarities there imo.  Late bloomer/pick that rose - showed a lot of potential early - could not sustain - did not improve - stagnated.  Darling of the fanbase / likeable - no shortage of opportunity here before eventually needing to move on....  Seemed to have a somewhat inflated sense of his performance.   Team avoided arbitration with him....market value proved to be dramatically less than fans in this market perceived.   In Ben's case he recovered somewhat - at least maintained a depth role at the NHL level - not sure how Gaudette will fare. 

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23 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

 

 I may have worded it bad but his play did improve from the beginning of the season, 2G,2A in -4 in his last 19 games. his low point was probably at game 14 when he was scratched.

 

 benning decided on seeing if gaudette could improve on his playoff season, I would have done the same thing. there was likely little interest in him preseason when you could just sign soderberg for a mill, or literally have the choice between 102 RFA'S not qualified

 

these are just the decent 24 year olds

carter verhaeghe 1 million

duclair signed for 1.65 mill

dominik Kahun signed for 750k

lucas wallmark signed for 950K

jayce Hawryluk signed for 875k

mark Jankowski signed for 700K

 

no one would have gave crap for gaudette preseason

 

there was literally only one time to trade him where we would have gotten better value. that was last year at the TDL

 

and I'm guessing that there will be better RFA'S not qualified again next year. Gaudette if he gets a contract will be signed as depth, i'm thinking this is his last year in the NHL.

You had me (not fully agreeing but open to what you are saying) until saying that you think this is his least year in the NHL...

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On 5/13/2021 at 2:45 PM, CanucksJay said:

You had me (not fully agreeing but open to what you are saying) until saying that you think this is his least year in the NHL...

 it's one of my greatest flaws, thinking logistics influenced by emotions.

 

he will likely get a contract to display his talents at preseason.

 

But, the nhl bottom 6 is a wasteland filled with hungry youngsters looking to feed on struggling players.

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Inb4 small sample size retorts :P

The thing about the limitations of a small sample size is it applies to both players, not just one. Its an argument not to judge either based on a handful of games. 

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7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The thing about the limitations of a small sample size is it applies to both players, not just one. Its an argument not to judge either based on a handful of games. 

Oh I'm well aware.

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5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Oh I'm well aware.

It sounded like you dont believe that small sample size bias exists. 

 

If Highmore can score when the games matter, I will be happy. If he can do it consistently I will be happy. He has been given huge opportunity so its nice to see him get a few goals.

 

I am hoping he turns out better than expected. I just dont think a few goals in a clump is enough evidence of that. He did that in the playoffs last year and until the last few games provided pretty much zero offense. I will be happy with 33 points in 59 games as an example ;)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Which small sample size are we talking about, anyway?

 

Highmore with 5 points in 15 GP, 0.33 points per game, and 1.56 5v5 points/60?

 

Or Gaudette with 4 points in 7 GP, 0.57 points per game, and 2.27 5v5 points/60?

 

:P

or these other stats, makes sense why gaudette was a healthy scratch last game of the season.

Player GP SH iSAT/60 SH S/60 PP GA/60 SH TOI SH TOI/GP SH TOI%
Matthew Highmore 15 2.3 2.3 4.53 26:30 1:46 38.3

 

Player GP PPA2 PPP PPP/60 PP S/60 PP TOI PP TOI/GP PP TOI%
Adam Gaudette 7 1 1 12.68 0 4:44 0:41 14.4

 

Player GP TOI/GP Hits/60 BkS/60 GvA/60 TkA/60
Adam Gaudette 7 12:12 4 2.81 2 1.4
Matthew Highmore 15 15:00 5.33 2.93 1.33 1.59

 

Player GP EV TOI/GP On-Ice EV GF On-Ice EV GA On-Ice EV GD On-Ice EV GF%
Matthew Highmore 15 13:11 9 9 0 50
Adam Gaudette 7 11:30 4 6 -2 40
Edited by Petey_BOI
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