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[Trade] Flames trade Sam Bennett, 2022 6th-round pick to Panthers for Emil Heineman, 2022 2nd-round pick


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7 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

You are really stretching the definition of trend.

 

27 + 45 + 11 = Average of 28 over the three years. (rounded up from 27.6666)

 

33 + 43 + 26 = Average of 34 over the three years. Clearly, the major difference is the COVID year. There is no 'trend'. By your admission, it is up and down. That doesn't fit any definition of trend - and you know this.

 

You haven't proven that it is a significant overpayment at all. We are simply relying on some statements (opinions) you made of Pearson and you are spinning it off as fact. Your continued use of the word 'trend' is extremely misleading. The numbers don't lie. The difference between Iafallo and Pearson isn't as much as you think it is - and this is taking into account Pearson's poor season.

 

Also, it's interesting that you're using the 'LA has the cap space to do this' explanation. Are you inferring then that the Iafallo deal is an overpayment, but one that the team can stomach, whereas Vancouver can't? Wouldn't that actually justify Pearson's signing because THAT is the market value?

 

I think Iaffallo's contract is pretty fair overall. Not a smokin deal, not a significant overpayment really. 

 

LA has the cap space to take the calculated risk. If it doesn't work they have cap space to add other players to try to improve. The Canucks don't and need every one of these signings to perfotm at a best case scenario level. Thats my point.

 

You can spin Pearson's up and down production if you need to. I have no need to continue arguing the same points over and over. The numbers speak for themselves really. He sandwiched agood season between two 3rd line production lrvel ones. I see that as risky, you don't. We can agree to disagree.

 

Someone will be right about this contract eventually. Lets hope for the teams sake its you and not me.

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Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

I think Iaffallo's contract is pretty fair overall. Not a smokin deal, not a significant overpayment really. 

 

LA has the cap space to take the calculated risk. If it doesn't work they have cap space to add other players to try to improve. The Canucks don't and need every one of these signings to perfotm at a best case scenario level. Thats my point.

 

You can spin Pearson's up and down production if you need to. I have no need to continue arguing the same points over and over. The numbers speak for themselves really. He sandwiched agood season between two 3rd line production lrvel ones. I see that as risky, you don't. We can agree to disagree.

 

Someone will be right about this contract eventually. Lets hope for the teams sake its you and not me.

You can't say this, but still say the Pearson deal is a rip off. LOL. That is so hypocritical.

 

I'm not spinning ANYTHING here. You brought up the three hockey seasons as some kind of 'trend' that Pearson was declining. I invalidated your use of the word trend, PLUS i demonstrated that the average between the two players wasn't as much as you're implying. There wasn't any spin whatsoever.  You're the one that was spinning information that you can't even back up.

 

The only reason why you say you don't want to argue further is because you have nothing.

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8 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I think Iaffallo's contract is pretty fair overall. Not a smokin deal, not a significant overpayment really. 

 

LA has the cap space to take the calculated risk. If it doesn't work they have cap space to add other players to try to improve. The Canucks don't and need every one of these signings to perfotm at a best case scenario level. Thats my point.

 

You can spin Pearson's up and down production if you need to. I have no need to continue arguing the same points over and over. The numbers speak for themselves really. He sandwiched agood season between two 3rd line production lrvel ones. I see that as risky, you don't. We can agree to disagree.

 

Someone will be right about this contract eventually. Lets hope for the teams sake its you and not me.

They do. And we can see that Pearson and Iafallo are basically the same players, stats wise. Maybe Iafallo could prove to be even better than what Pearson has produced. And yes, Pearson has more point totals than Iaffalo. It's rather convenient you left that out. Pearson has a decidedly larger body of work.

 

So let's just say Iafallo is the better player than Pearson when taking into account recent performance (not performance from 6 years ago), the market value is apparently 4 M for him. Would it not be fair that Pearson is pegged at 3ish? The average is 34 vs 27.

 

There isn't any spin here. Pearson's signing is perfectly reasonable, especially when using YOUR standard that Iafallo's contract was "fair". The Canucks don't have any player like Pearson that can produce these numbers.

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11 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

You can't say this, but still say the Pearson deal is a rip off. LOL. That is so hypocritical.

 

I'm not spinning ANYTHING here. You brought up the three hockey seasons as some kind of 'trend' that Pearson was declining. I invalidated your use of the word trend, PLUS i demonstrated that the average between the two players wasn't as much as you're implying. There wasn't any spin whatsoever.  You're the one that was spinning information that you can't even back up.

 

The only reason why you say you don't want to argue further is because you have nothing.

No, I dont see the point in arguing further because you arent going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours.

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3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

They do. And we can see that Pearson and Iafallo are basically the same players, stats wise. Maybe Iafallo could prove to be even better than what Pearson has produced. And yes, Pearson has more point totals than Iaffalo. It's rather convenient you left that out. Pearson has a decidedly larger body of work.

 

So let's just say Iafallo is the better player than Pearson when taking into account recent performance (not performance from 6 years ago), the market value is apparently 4 M for him. Would it not be fair that Pearson is pegged at 3ish? The average is 34 vs 27.

 

There isn't any spin here. Pearson's signing is perfectly reasonable, especially when using YOUR standard that Iafallo's contract was "fair". The Canucks don't have any player like Pearson that can produce these numbers.

Ya clearly the Canucks have no one who could be expected to produce 11 points in 33 games in a full time 2nd line role alongside Horvat and consistent PP role.

 

Gaudette probably could have even done it. Or even Virtanen. He has the same number of ppg as Pearson you know.

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39 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Ya clearly the Canucks have no one who could be expected to produce 11 points in 33 games in a full time 2nd line role alongside Horvat and consistent PP role.

 

Gaudette probably could have even done it. Or even Virtanen. He has the same number of ppg as Pearson you know.

Do they penalty kill? Can they be relied upon in the defensive zone? Neither Gaudette nor Virtanen fit this description, according to the coach.

 

I'm still amused that you think Pearson's contract is a "significant overpayment", while acknowledging that Iafallo's contract was fair. You are biased in your argument, which has affected your reasoning.

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1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Do they penalty kill? Can they be relied upon in the defensive zone? Neither Gaudette nor Virtanen fit this description, according to the coach.

 

I'm still amused that you think Pearson's contract is a "significant overpayment", while acknowledging that Iafallo's contract was fair. You are biased in your argument, which has affected your reasoning.

My reasoning is they are not remotely close as comparable players. Iaffalli is far more valuable to his team.

 

Pearson is 7th among forwards in PK ice time with about 23 minutes total. Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Motte, Miller, and Vesey (pre Canucks) all have been used more. So it seems like Pearson only becomes a top half option for the PK when others are injured. 

 

As an aside, Iaffalo is 2nd among Kings forwards in pk ice time only behind Kopitar. He has roughly 77 minutes of time. He also plays 4 minutes more per game and on their top line. He is far more valuable to them than Pearson is to the Canucks.

 

Cheap definsively responsible players who can PK at least as well as Pearson might be one of the easiest player types of players to find.

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14 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

My reasoning is they are not remotely close as comparable players. Iaffalli is far more valuable to his team.

 

Pearson is 7th among forwards in PK ice time with about 23 minutes total. Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Motte, Miller, and Vesey (pre Canucks) all have been used more. So it seems like Pearson only becomes a top half option for the PK when others are injured. 

 

As an aside, Iaffalo is 2nd among Kings forwards in pk ice time only behind Kopitar. He has roughly 77 minutes of time. He also plays 4 minutes more per game and on their top line. He is far more valuable to them than Pearson is to the Canucks.

 

Cheap definsively responsible players who can PK at least as well as Pearson might be one of the easiest player types of players to find.

Haha good luck finding those. You are vastly underestimating how hard it is to find reliable players who can PK. Look at Tyler Motte. We all know he's valuable. Not a lot of players like you say are found in UFA.

 

Like I said, you're so incredibly biased.

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54 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Haha good luck finding those. You are vastly underestimating how hard it is to find reliable players who can PK. Look at Tyler Motte. We all know he's valuable. Not a lot of players like you say are found in UFA.

 

Like I said, you're so incredibly biased.

Ya look at Motte's role and contract too. There are tons of guys out there like that who can PK effectively on inexpensive contract terms. And its not like Pearson is even a main PK guy either so not sure what the point is about needing to overpay him because he fills in on the pk when one of the other overpaid "foundational players" gets injured.

 

Guys who can play a simple defensive game and pk are much easier to find, cost less, and are easier to replace than guys who can drive offense. 

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16 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Do they penalty kill? Can they be relied upon in the defensive zone? Neither Gaudette nor Virtanen fit this description, according to the coach.

If the Canucks had a better, less expensive, and capable bottom 6 that isn't either injured or ineffective against better players and far less dead money on the cap, they could probably afford a better top 6 option to play with Bo so they would not have to rely on his line as much in a matchup role and could have two top line quality offensive groups.

 

That can't happen because the bottom 6 can't handle as much of the matchup stuff and the ones who can are often injured.

 

Look at how true contenders are built. They typically have an effective bottom 6 group and can trust at least 3 of their lines against anyone.

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36 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Ya look at Motte's role and contract too. There are tons of guys out there like that who can PK effectively on inexpensive contract terms. And its not like Pearson is even a main PK guy either so not sure what the point is about needing to overpay him because he fills in on the pk when one of the other overpaid "foundational players" gets injured.

 

Guys who can play a simple defensive game and pk are much easier to find, cost less, and are easier to replace than guys who can drive offense. 

Pearson is kind of an all-rounder. Maybe slightly less defensive than Motte. Motte is decidedly more defensive, with some offensive upside. The only reason I brought up Motte is that these players AREN'T all that common to find.

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22 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

If the Canucks had a better, less expensive, and capable bottom 6 that isn't either injured or ineffective against better players and far less dead money on the cap, they could probably afford a better top 6 option to play with Bo so they would not have to rely on his line as much in a matchup role and could have two top line quality offensive groups.

 

That can't happen because the bottom 6 can't handle as much of the matchup stuff and the ones who can are often injured.

 

Look at how true contenders are built. They typically have an effective bottom 6 group and can trust at least 3 of their lines against anyone.

The 'failing' of our bottom 6 this year lays squarely at the feet of a one dimensional (and cheap) Gaudette becoming zero dimensional. And mid-priced Virtanen's offense falling off a cliff.

 

None of the 'overpriced' vets were remotely an issue (nor Motte) beyond perhaps a still not the same since his career threatening knee injury, Roussel (who was still more capable in a more limited 4th line role than either of the two kids).

 

 

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14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The 'failing' of our bottom 6 this year lays squarely at the feet of a one dimensional (and cheap) Gaudette becoming zero dimensional. And mid-priced Virtanen's offense falling off a cliff.

 

None of the 'overpriced' vets were remotely an issue (nor Motte) beyond perhaps a still not the same since his career threatening knee injury, Roussel (who was still more capable in a more limited 4th line role than either of the two kids).

 

 

Lol ok bud. Maybe that's why you don't try to take offensive minded players and completely change their game to fit a hole on your roster that you have failed to fill with a competent option. The fact that the Canucks felt that either Virtanen or Gaudette were bottom 6 type players says a lot about their ability to evaluate players.

 

Either of those players could have been traded last year if the Canucks knew they weren't a fit. 

 

It will be interesting to see what Chicago does with Gaudette. They have historically been very good about finding the right role for young guys that maximizes their strengths and minimuzes their weaknesses. 

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10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Lol ok bud. Maybe that's why you don't try to take offensive minded players and completely change their game to fit a hole on your roster that you have failed to fill with a competent option. The fact that the Canucks felt that either Virtanen or Gaudette were bottom 6 type players says a lot about their ability to evaluate players.

 

Either of those players could have been traded last year if the Canucks knew they weren't a fit. 

 

It will be interesting to see what Chicago does with Gaudette. They have historically been very good about finding the right role for young guys that maximizes their strengths and minimuzes their weaknesses. 

Virtanen last year was just fine as a complementary offense, 3rd liner. Gaudette (while extremely sheltered) was as well. 

 

Hey, I've got all the time in the world for 'should have traded them last year' talk. I wanted them traded last year, and I'm disappointed they weren't. That said, I can totally see why management would allow them time to see if they could take the next step. They didn't.

 

Regardless, none of this refutes that it wasn't in fact the 'overpaid bottom 6 players' that were the issue.

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5 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Pearson is kind of an all-rounder. Maybe slightly less defensive than Motte. Motte is decidedly more defensive, with some offensive upside. The only reason I brought up Motte is that these players AREN'T all that common to find.

Bottom 6 defensively conservative forwards, energy guys, PK role fillers are the easiest and most plentiful forwards around.

 

Not every player can be an effective penalty killer of course. But there are a lot of inexpensive contract, primary pk type forwards around the league andmany more who are in the ahl or who no longer have nhl employment.

 

They are literally the easiest players to get on bargain contracts.

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4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

2 assists and some great physical play from Bennett tonight.

 

Like I said Calgary could be regretting this very shortly.

You think? He may put it together in Florida but I don't think he ever would have in Calgary. They got good value for a player who needed a change of scenery. Like if we traded Virtanen and he turned out to be a great player, I would not regret the trade because he wouldn't have figured it out in Vancouver

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25 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

2 assists and some great physical play from Bennett tonight.

 

Like I said Calgary could be regretting this very shortly.

I think you got the wrong thread. Get that Sam Bennett talk out of here! This is "cry about Pearson's contract 7.0" thread. 

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On 4/17/2021 at 7:26 PM, coryberg said:

I think you got the wrong thread. Get that Sam Bennett talk out of here! This is "cry about Pearson's contract 7.0" thread. 

yeah seriously was confused i thought i clicked the sam bennett thread not pearson signing or lafallo signing thread. lol

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On 4/17/2021 at 7:09 PM, Penskih said:

You think? He may put it together in Florida but I don't think he ever would have in Calgary. They got good value for a player who needed a change of scenery. Like if we traded Virtanen and he turned out to be a great player, I would not regret the trade because he wouldn't have figured it out in Vancouver

We say the same thing about players that leave Vancouver to make us feel better.

 

Bennett with another 2 goals today. He’s now up to 5 points in 3 games with the Panthers.

 

The problem was coaching in Calgary not with Bennett.

 

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