Is Benning the guy to take us into the next phase of our teams development? (Discussion/Poll)

[KKnight]

2 hours ago, Quantum said:

Jim Benning feels like he's gonna be like Dale Tallon of both the Chicago Blackhawks and Florida Panthers. He'll be responsible for getting the Canucks to the edge of being great again but he won't be able to go all the way.

 

I feel like Benning was going to be fired this offseason but that this recent Covid outbreak probably bought him an extra year because any implosion the Canucks inevitably have will be blamed on that and not the mediocre team Benning has assembled currently.

 

I'm also not sure who the obvious GM candidates are if Benning was to get fired this offseason. I guess Jim Rutherford could be a guy to hire if you want someone who is super aggressive. The newer intriguing candidates seem to be: Eric Tulsky (Hurricanes AGM), Kevin Weekes (has been linked to several jobs including the Panthers recent opening), Roberto Luongo, Jason Karamanos (former Penguins AGM -- you'd probably hire him as GM and Rutherford as President), Ryan Johnson (Utica Comets GM), and I guess Laurence Gilman?!?

 

I'd hope after Benning that the Canucks would go and get someone progressive like Gillis was to take this team over the top but I worry that ownership will meddle to much to allow that to happen. I think Aquaman likes Benning because Benning is such a yes man to him.

 

Hard to say but I don't see Benning being the guy to take this team over the hill so that's why I think he'll be replaced. I also think that if Benning is fired or his contract is not renewed that he'll easily find a spot as a GM elsewhere. He seems to be well liked around the NHL.

I would have Gillman and Ryan Johnson at the top of the list. Rutherford made some real head scratching moves in the last few seasons. Mind you, he has made some moves to put Pittsburgh over the top. 

 

I'm intrigued by Johnson, because he seems like a very well spoken and intelligent hockey mind. I would probably want him to be our AGM first though. 

 

I would even be open to Gillis coming back. As long as the scouting stays the same. 

[nuckin_futz]

I have full confidence in JB when it comes to drafting.

 

I have little confidence in JB when it comes to making trades.

 

JB should be no where near a phone on free agent day.

 

So can we have a co-GM situation where JB has full authority over all drafting decisions and someone who knows what they're doing making trades and signing free agents?

[Silky mitts]

Definitely not. Terrible gm , his time is done . Aqua is a garbage owner too .

[Ghostsof1915]

6 hours ago, Silky mitts said:

Definitely not. Terrible gm , his time is done . Aqua is a garbage owner too .

Would you prefer an owner who puts an internal cap on spending, and we trade our players they moment they get to their 3rd contract? 

Having a local owner with deep pockets who hasn't complained about spending to the limit, and not getting results is a bad thing? 

I get why people have issues with the Aqua's. But at least we're not living in fear the team might get sold and moved to Kansas City. 

[Ghostsof1915]

7 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

I have full confidence in JB when it comes to drafting.

 

I have little confidence in JB when it comes to making trades.

 

JB should be no where near a phone on free agent day.

 

So can we have a co-GM situation where JB has full authority over all drafting decisions and someone who knows what they're doing making trades and signing free agents?

Won't happen. That's basically trading away half his power. That would be like bringing in another GM and offering Jim a job as assistant GM. 

 

 

[aliboy]

The jury is out, next season will tell the tale IMO, didn't like the Pearson signing. Hope we sign Tram, then Pod comes in next year, maybe we draft a 1st who can play. Just seems the waters have gotten a bit muddied after last seasons playoff success.

[EternalCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Won't happen. That's basically trading away half his power. That would be like bringing in another GM and offering Jim a job as assistant GM. 

 

 

That's just it however.  I'm not necessarily in the "Fire Benning!" camp but I think there are credible reasons to question whether he, as GM, can move the Canucks into the next phase of their development (the focus of this thread).  The unfortunate thing is that practically, it's highly unusual for an incumbent GM to willingly give up his position for a supporting role even if that might really be the type of role he is best suited for.  Having someone like Benning in the organization is important to ensure that even in time of great success, it is re-stocking the cupboards as best as possible.

 

If I had any specific list of criticisms of Benning, then it's the anecdotal instances of his inability communicate well or effectively in his role.  I believe Benning genuinely cares for his players but the situation with the expiring UFAs this past offseason seems to be a trend where whatever communication he is attempting to make with players doesn't seem to actually get through to them.  Maybe it's at least partly on the players or their agents, but it's not great to hear from several players that there was little to no communication with them.  I also wonder whether Benning's care for his players (or at least the ones he likes the most) might cloud his judgment on their value and lead to betting on players to succeed when there's a lot of data stacked against them.  There's also the fact that Benning is sometimes a bit too honest for his own good, which I can only speculate may affect his ability to extract maximum value from other GMs.

 

I liked the hiring of Benning when they first brought him on, but I also felt Gillis was unfairly maligned and would have been fine seeing a Canucks team rebuilt by him.  Hard to know where our drafting would be at if Gillis had stayed on (it was generally quite bad under his tenure), but Gillis also never really had a chance to pick as high up in the draft as Benning.  The two top 10 pick Gillis had bookended his tenure with the Canucks and were Cody Hodgson (2008) and Bo Horvat (2013).  We can criticize how Hodgson was handled, but Cody was genuinely a very promising player who was ultimately undone by health issues.  Even Yann Sauve (picked same year as Hodgson) was genuinely a solid D prospect but was never the same after his car accident.  Ben Hutton didn't work out but he's still in the league which says something.  Kevin Connauton never ended up playing for the Canucks but has carved out a solid career as a NHL depth D.  Quite a few other draft picks did end up playing in at least some NHL games (e.g. Grenier, Labate, Gaunce, etc.).  Benning has had more high picks pan out (i.e. Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Demko, possibly Hoglander) but we are still waiting to see how others with high promise actually do once they reach the NHL (i.e. Podkolzin, Lind, Rathbone, possibly Woo and Gadjovich).  I think Benning is likely still vastly superior to Gillis as far as drafting is concerned, but it would have been intriguing to see a Gillis re-build.

[Silky mitts]

56 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Would you prefer an owner who puts an internal cap on spending, and we trade our players they moment they get to their 3rd contract? 

Having a local owner with deep pockets who hasn't complained about spending to the limit, and not getting results is a bad thing? 

I get why people have issues with the Aqua's. But at least we're not living in fear the team might get sold and moved to Kansas City. 

I would prefer an owner who can step back and let hockey professionals do their thing without meddling in it 

[JM_]

13 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, Benning has stated that we will be entering the next phase of team's development in 2 years, and we should be pushing for a playoff spot.

 

I think Jim's '2 years' comment has been misunderstood. He thinks we are a playoff team now, and actually competing for a cup in 2 years, not just pushing to get into the dance.

 

But it doesn't matter what any of us think, its what Aqulini thinks and it looks like Jim's the guy Aqua is going to run with. 

 

So I think we'll see a similar pattern to what Jim's been doing for the last 3 years or so going forward. Good drafting, some overpaying. How that all shakes out this summer is key. Do we land Lowry? do we lose a key player to expansion? do we buy out Loui and Holtby? some very important decisions coming.

 

Is there a new GM out there who'd make better decisions? maybe but my guess is he'd be here if Aqua and them had mutual interest. 

[lmm]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Would you prefer an owner who puts an internal cap on spending, and we trade our players they moment they get to their 3rd contract? 

Having a local owner with deep pockets who hasn't complained about spending to the limit, and not getting results is a bad thing? 

I get why people have issues with the Aqua's. But at least we're not living in fear the team might get sold and moved to Kansas City. 

why do you have to jump to the worst case scenerio?

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

I don't know Jim, in the big picture you are probably right, but................

 

Do you honestly think we are a playoff team this year?

 

I think Jim's opinion was based on us competing with San Jose, LA, Arizona, Anaheim, and Calgary, half of which are in rebuilds

 

IMO, that is a false  position, as at the time, these were some of the worse teams in the league.

 

When we beat St. Louis and pretty much played Vegas to a draw, it  was pretty much goaltending.

 

Do you think we are a playoff team right now?

 

Again, if Aqualini thinks that, it does not matter what we think, but maybe he should be listening to other hockey guys in the business

 

Because I do not hear them saying that.

 

IMO, Jim said the same thing 2 years ago, and is now blaming covid

 

He is a GM of excuses, and uses them all the time..............I am not saying he has not done a great job on the drafting, because he has

 

But there is more to running a hockey team than that. Hell you may have been able to draft as many of the same players

 

If you were surrounded by the same support staff

[Ghostsof1915]

19 minutes ago, lmm said:

why do you have to jump to the worst case scenerio?

 

Because you have to think of possible ramifications in the choices you make? You know grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. And because it’s happened with Vancouver before with the Grizzlies. New owners might not get the results you want.

[24K PureCool]

9 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

I have full confidence in JB when it comes to drafting.

 

I have little confidence in JB when it comes to making trades.

 

JB should be no where near a phone on free agent day.

 

So can we have a co-GM situation where JB has full authority over all drafting decisions and someone who knows what they're doing making trades and signing free agents?

So 'promote' JB to president of hockey ops. He seems much more suited to do the big direction stuff than doing the detailed work if a GM. Only fear in that is JB just gonna promote Weisbroad to GM. 

[Josepho]

46 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I don't know Jim, in the big picture you are probably right, but................

 

Do you honestly think we are a playoff team this year?

 

I think Jim's opinion was based on us competing with San Jose, LA, Arizona, Anaheim, and Calgary, half of which are in rebuilds

 

IMO, that is a false  position, as at the time, these were some of the worse teams in the league.

 

When we beat St. Louis and pretty much played Vegas to a draw, it  was pretty much goaltending.

 

Do you think we are a playoff team right now?

 

Again, if Aqualini thinks that, it does not matter what we think, but maybe he should be listening to other hockey guys in the business

 

Because I do not hear them saying that.

 

IMO, Jim said the same thing 2 years ago, and is now blaming covid

 

He is a GM of excuses, and uses them all the time..............I am not saying he has not done a great job on the drafting, because he has

 

But there is more to running a hockey team than that. Hell you may have been able to draft as many of the same players

 

If you were surrounded by the same support staff

We could've made the playoffs in the old Pacific division, but who the &^@# cares? After Seattle is put into the league, 50% of the teams in the league make the playoffs -- it's hardly noteworthy.

 

Many people seem way too complacent with being a middling playoff team and everyone was blowing their load over a 2nd round playoff exit (after the team went all-in) where we were dramatically outplayed by Vegas.

 

 

[lmm]

5 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Because you have to think of possible ramifications in the choices you make? You know grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. And because it’s happened with Vancouver before with the Grizzlies. New owners might not get the results you want.

you know it might rain if you go outside today

or you might stubb your toe putting on your pants, is it better to stay in bed?

 

If you are afraid to make changes because they might turn out bad

and Aqua is afraid to make changes because they might turn out bad

and Jim is afraid to make changes because they might turn out bad

and Green is afraid...

 

is there really any possiblity that this forlorn franchise will ever win a cup?

 

As my old friend used to sasy, "God hates a coward"

 

[lmm]

15 hours ago, KKnight said:

I would have Gillman and Ryan Johnson at the top of the list. Rutherford made some real head scratching moves in the last few seasons. Mind you, he has made some moves to put Pittsburgh over the top. 

 

I'm intrigued by Johnson, because he seems like a very well spoken and intelligent hockey mind. I would probably want him to be our AGM first though. 

 

I would even be open to Gillis coming back. As long as the scouting stays the same. 

 

6 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Because you have to think of possible ramifications in the choices you make? You know grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. And because it’s happened with Vancouver before with the Grizzlies. New owners might not get the results you want.

this is kind of funny and kind of sad.

KK wants to recycle th eold management while Ghost is afraid to make changes cuz they might turn out bad

yous got the Canucklitis real bad

maybe we shoulkd bring back Linden and Nonis too

[Hairy Kneel]

JB has Podz and Tryamkin coming in. This will boost both offense and defense.  I believe JB will utilize a ED protection spot to add 2nd or 3rd line help. 

[Timråfan]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:50 AM, Quantum said:

Jim Benning feels like he's gonna be like Dale Tallon of both the Chicago Blackhawks and Florida Panthers. He'll be responsible for getting the Canucks to the edge of being great again but he won't be able to go all the way.

 

I feel like Benning was going to be fired this offseason but that this recent Covid outbreak probably bought him an extra year because any implosion the Canucks inevitably have will be blamed on that and not the mediocre team Benning has assembled currently.

 

I'm also not sure who the obvious GM candidates are if Benning was to get fired this offseason. I guess Jim Rutherford could be a guy to hire if you want someone who is super aggressive. The newer intriguing candidates seem to be: Eric Tulsky (Hurricanes AGM), Kevin Weekes (has been linked to several jobs including the Panthers recent opening), Roberto Luongo, Jason Karamanos (former Penguins AGM -- you'd probably hire him as GM and Rutherford as President), Ryan Johnson (Utica Comets GM), Henrik Evertsson (Vaxjo GM and the guy who gave Elias Pettersson his chance in the SHL), Chris Abbott (Rogle GM aka the guy who gave Nils Hoglander his SHL chance), and I guess Laurence Gilman?!?

 

I'd hope after Benning that the Canucks would go and get someone progressive like Gillis was to take this team over the top but I worry that ownership will meddle to much to allow that to happen. I think Aquaman likes Benning because Benning is such a yes man to him.

 

Hard to say but I don't see Benning being the guy to take this team over the hill so that's why I think he'll be replaced. I also think that if Benning is fired or his contract is not renewed that he'll easily find a spot as a GM elsewhere. He seems to be well liked around the NHL.

Evertsson would be fun. He knows exactly what buttons to push regarding Petey and how to develop him. 

[billabong]

this is the most crucial off season to date for Jimbo, trumps last off season which obviously blew up BIG time in his face which in turn double downs on the importance of the summer of 2021.

 

his next move or two will be crucial in the consumer confidence of the fan base.

 

 

[Maddogy]

One of the things that people have to understand in life is it is always easy to question things. It is much much harder to find an alternative and do better. 

 

The tough question is, if J.B. is fired, who is actually available to come in and do a better job than J.B.? This is the tough part. We have seen many many GM and coaching changes made in the league and things actually got worse for many teams. 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Maddogy