[Proposal] Rumours about Schmidt and Miller

[BPA]

Schmidt to BOS for 1st 2021 + DeBrusk + prospect (or 3rd 2022)

 

Miller to NAS for 1st 2022 + Fabbro + 3rd 2021.

 

Meh.  Not sure of trade values.  But something along this line of thinking. 

[khay]

Is Ristolainen that good of a piece? I didn't watch him all that much but when I did, he didn't look that great.

 

Not against trading Miller if it gets us a top 3 RD but maybe someone better than Ristolainen if possible.

 

Schmidt can play both sides and he moves the puck so well, I don't know if we can find another PMD like him. 

 

Unless Rathbone/Juolevi show that they can do what Schmidt can do, I wouldn't trade him just yet.

[JM_]

55 minutes ago, Provost said:

I guess I am just higher on the player.  Once Buffalo stopped playing him 26 minutes a game he has gotten drastically better.

 

Maybe it would need to be a deal after July 1st where you can have an agreement on an extension before pulling the trigger on the trade.

I just wonder if anyone would give up a 1st for Risto, because that's what we'd be doing. If we really wanted to target him I bet we could do it for a 2nd and prospect. 

[BCNate]

I wouldn't even consider moving either of these guys at this stage.  Wherever we end this season, it will be one (maybe two)time anomaly.  We will have played 16 games in 25 days to start, and 19 games in 31 days to finish, in a far tougher division that we typically reside.  I fully expect that we will be competing for a playoff spot next season, even if we don't see significant change to out lineup.  

 

I'd say we still have 4-5 legit prospects that could see time nest year in Podkolzin, Lind, Rathbone, Gadjovich, Joulevi, let's see where they settle, and then look to make a bigger move down the road when we know exactly what holes we have are.

[FlyLow_]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

I guess I am just higher on the player.  Once Buffalo stopped playing him 26 minutes a game he has gotten drastically better.

 

Maybe it would need to be a deal after July 1st where you can have an agreement on an extension before pulling the trigger on the trade.

His biggest weakness is defending, which is our team's biggest weakness. I just don't see a fit. We need more of a Jeff Petry type to play with Hughes, not saying that player is available or the right return, just that we need that type of defender. We also need to keep Schmidt and find a way to move Myers, even if we have to pay to do so. If we an do that we can take a run at a guy like David Savard in free agency and keep Hamonic. Also like to see us try and sign Josh Manson and bring Edler back on the cheap.

 

Something like...

 

Hughes-Savard

Schmidt-Hamonic

Edler-Manson

Juolevi

 

I don't see this team taking a step until we have a legitimate defense like this. If we have to move Miller for a young cheaper forward and buy out someone like virtanen to make it happen, we should absolutely do it.

Edited April 14, 2021 by FlyLow_

[D-Money]

I'd much rather see how next season is going before trading any top players like Miller and Schmidt. But if it goes sideways again, and we look more like 3+ seasons from truly contending, then all bets are off.

 

Imagine what a retained Miller would get at next trade deadline? That could expedite things for the new GM (because if the team doesn't show improvement next year, Benning is most definitely gone).

[Dazzle]

I think it's Benning's job to look at all players.

 

That being said, I don't think Miller and Schmidt are going anywhere.

[Provost]

19 minutes ago, FlyLow_ said:

His biggest weakness is defending, which is our team's biggest weakness. I just don't see a fit. 

Some of that info is dated.  He was being badly misused in Buffalo and they were riding him more than 26 minutes a game when he was new to the league, he couldn't handle it.
 

Once they dropped him to the 22 minutes a game level, suddenly he became dramatically more effective including defensively.  He was only a -10 while leading the team in almost 23 minutes per game of ice time.  The team as a whole is a -33 goal differential while at even strength... so he is holding his own when on the ice.

I think it is fair to think of him as very similar to Edler stylistically.  Maybe miscast as a true #1.. probably a #2-3 ideally on a good defence but still a massively useful defender.

Depending on who else you have on the blue line, you pair him with either Hughes or Edler next year and you have a really good pairing.  With Hughes, Risto would have much more limited minutes as he wouldn't get all the PP minutes that Hughes does, Risto probably plays our 2nd unit PP.  With Edler, then you use Risto for a little more offensive punch to that pairing.

I would trade a late 1st for Ristolainen, so Miller and some cap dump in Virtanen seems reasonably fair to me as we then can use that cap space to upgrade elsewhere.   Eakin is more than a throw in, and could fill our 3C slot in the short term.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Miller straight up for Ristolainen might be interesting.

Then we'd really need Schmidt to be able to fetch us a top line center or winger which might be trickier, but Schmidt + Virtanen might get us someone decent?

 

Why not just go all in:

TO BUF: Miller + Virtanen + Schmidt + 1st 

TO VAN: Eichel + Ristolainen

 

Miller's value is a 1st, Virtanen and Schmidt are probably the value of 2 seconds, so 2 x 1sts (high firsts at that) + 2 x 2nds for basically two high-first (top-5 to 10) pick valued players?

[Duodenum]

I'd deal them both if teams are offering a king's ransom. 

Team isn't going anywhere next year anyways. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

i would say ristolainen is highly under rated on his board. if you like hughes and horvat than you probably should like ristolainen. they all have similar EV +/- once you factor in TOI.

[FlyLow_]

27 minutes ago, Provost said:

Some of that info is dated.  He was being badly misused in Buffalo and they were riding him more than 26 minutes a game when he was new to the league, he couldn't handle it.
 

Once they dropped him to the 22 minutes a game level, suddenly he became dramatically more effective including defensively.  He was only a -10 while leading the team in almost 23 minutes per game of ice time.  The team as a whole is a -33 goal differential while at even strength... so he is holding his own when on the ice.

I think it is fair to think of him as very similar to Edler stylistically.  Maybe miscast as a true #1.. probably a #2-3 ideally on a good defence but still a massively useful defender.

Depending on who else you have on the blue line, you pair him with either Hughes or Edler next year and you have a really good pairing.  With Hughes, Risto would have much more limited minutes as he wouldn't get all the PP minutes that Hughes does, Risto probably plays our 2nd unit PP.  With Edler, then you use Risto for a little more offensive punch to that pairing.

I would trade a late 1st for Ristolainen, so Miller and some cap dump in Virtanen seems reasonably fair to me as we then can use that cap space to upgrade elsewhere.   Eakin is more than a throw in, and could fill our 3C slot in the short term.

I'm a sabres fan, I know exactly what he is.

[Silky mitts]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

I was listening to 650, and for about the 3rd time I heard someone (this time Friedman) mention that there were rumours around that teams have been calling on Miller and Schmidt and that the Canucks have had discussions about it.

It sounds a little crazy, but maybe there are deals to be had that improve us.

I think Miller to Buffalo is an easy no-brainer.  Buffalo is going to explode their team, if it isn't Eichel moving out they need to get pieces to surround him.  A veteran Miller would be an ideal linemate for him, which could make him a lot happier that his organization is actually trying.

A trade for Miller could look like (maybe with small adds going either way to even out):

To Buffalo:
Miller
Virtanen

To Vancouver:
Ristolainen
Eakin

+?

Then Schmidt is expendable as Risto seems like a better fit with our other D

Jersey is losing a top 4D this offseason and then Subban the year after and don't have enough ready made replacements.  They have a lot of really decent young forwards.  They might also need some support for Blackwood.

A trade with Jersey could look like:
To Jersey:
Schmidt
Holtby
Roussel

A Decent pick/prospect 

To Vancouver:
Jesper Bratt
Nate Bastian

That ends up with us having some extra cap room to pay for our needed extensions and a roster that looks like:

Hoglander-Petterson-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Bratt
Podkolzin-Eakin-Bastian
Motte-Beagle-Lind
MacEwan

Hughes-Ristolainen
Edler-Tryamkin
Juolevi-Myers
Rathbone-Bowie

Demko
XX

Could find a better piece for Miller. Hell if you wan't to swing with Buffalo I would offer miller and Bo for Eichel and other pieces.

[Silky mitts]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I just wonder if anyone would give up a 1st for Risto, because that's what we'd be doing. If we really wanted to target him I bet we could do it for a 2nd and prospect. 

Risto is a poor defender I would hate to add him here. He is like another myers.

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Silky mitts said:

Risto is a poor defender I would hate to add him here. He is like another myers.

Myers isn't really a 'poor' defender. What would that make Pouliot?

[DeltaSwede]

I think it's always healthy to discuss your players with other teams. Doesn't mean you make a deal but an overpayment is always an overpayment - see Mantha to WSH. 

 

This season isn't the season to blow up a team (unless you are Buffallo). J.T Miller has arguably been our best player since he was acquired and Schmidt is a giant on defense that I still believe we have more to get out of. Don't sell him off before we know what we truely have. I like 

 

They are two of our veteran players that are actually attractive to other teams so it's not weird that teams are calling about them. 

[Silky mitts]

40 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Myers isn't really a 'poor' defender. What would that make Pouliot?

Yes he is . Lol your comical with the delusions you have of him. He has bottom five worst defender underlying numbers in the league . 

[Alienhuggyflow]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

You mean the exact number we would have if we switched Schmidt and Risto back?

Changing the goalposts doesn’t make your previous comment make any more sense.  First you were worried about having too many veterans with their “bodies breaking down”, now it is having too many younger guys?
 

Switching Schmidt for a guy who plays more minutes doesn’t give us less bodies to play defence like you suggested.  It also switches a guy hitting 30 (who will be “breaking down”) with an experienced guy 3 years younger and just starting his prime years.

I love Risto but not at the cost of Nate. I still think Nate is a top pairing D who has looked so much better after getting some actual practice time. I see Risto as a #3 but the one thing that gives me pause is thinking of Risto and Huggy together.

[Alienhuggyflow]

2 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

Yes he is . Lol your comical with the delusions you have of him. He has bottom five worst defender underlying numbers in the league . 

I doubt that he does but in the words of Sheif analytics are mostly hogwash. The actual eye test has shown Myers has been excellent this season and if you actually believe he is a bottom-five defender I suggest you start watching a lot more team's cuz that's just a terrible take.

[FlyLow_]

1 minute ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

I love Risto but not at the cost of Nate. I still think Nate is a top pairing D who has looked so much better after getting some actual practice time. I see Risto as a #3 but the one thing that gives me pause is thinking of Risto and Huggy together.

Exactly, you don't put two guys who like to have the puck on their stick together. Doesn't work on defense. We just need a rugged 2 way guy to play with Hughes that can play on the first pair, move the puck and cover up for some of Quinn's mistakes as his game matures.