J.T. Miller unsure if safety is priority amid Canucks comeback

[rekker]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Really curious what would've happened if it was the entire Leafs team that all came down with COVID down the stretch of the season. Would the NHL cancel the season then? We may never know, but I feel the Canucks have been really disrespected here.  

This. It was hardly a story as it was. More talk about the Vezina candidate and top six "find" in Galchenyuk. It's part of the reason why the Leafs are so despised outside their fan base. 

[ruilin96]

How glad am I to be wrong about the Miller trade. My initial reaction was dumb, as I thought it was an overpayment for a 2nd/3rd line player when we gave up a first round pick for him (if being this wrong means I should "eat crow" then this is the tastiest crow I have ever eaten). Then he got here, absolutely lighting it up last season on the ice, and is a leader in the locker-room. Him reading the starting line up video is one of my all-time behind the scenes videos the Canucks released. With this happening, and the league basically put together a schedule to say "screw you we don't car about you, all we care is the broadcast revenue we are getting by having games played on TV," Miller is the one to speak up for the team. This guy is becomes one of my all time favourite Canucks. I fully support Miller's comments, and I will be behind any plans that will put the players and their families health and safety in the first place.

[rekker]

Man I love Miller. He reminds me of Kesler and while it rubs some the wrong way I love it. Bring in more guys that hate losing and play and carry themselves like there's a pinecone in their jock. Love it. 

[IBatch]

This isn't an easy spot to be in.   Players need to honour their paycheques to a degree (they are the only ones getting paid this year (well they are giving back 20%) , early  estimates 90% of the owners share, which also has to pay for the organizational staff, day to day etc) won't be made.   Massive losses. 

 

 For Vancouver .... they should be careful running into a liability issue - need to be prepared to have a taxi squad that can allow for games off.   Surprised the league didn't allow them to have a much bigger squad, expect a fair amount of travel up and down.   If the AHL guys can help and play decent hockey some of this will be mitigated.    Don't understand the rush - the league could have allowed one week for practice or just extended the season for a week to allow for a more realistic schedule (like maybe just a normal one good grief).  Hope this at least galvinized the team somewhat, and hate to say it but glad TG also got it as he will have a better understanding of what they are going to have to do.   Expect rolling four lines and nobodies minutes to be high the first while at least.   Too much risk and liabilities. 

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

How glad am I to be wrong about the Miller trade. My initial reaction was dumb, as I thought it was an overpayment for a 2nd/3rd line player when we gave up a first round pick for him (if being this wrong means I should "eat crow" then this is the tastiest crow I have ever eaten). Then he got here, absolutely lighting it up last season on the ice, and is a leader in the locker-room. Him reading the starting line up video is one of my all-time behind the scenes videos the Canucks released. With this happening, and the league basically put together a schedule to say "screw you we don't car about you, all we care is the broadcast revenue we are getting by having games played on TV," Miller is the one to speak up for the team. This guy is becomes one of my all time favourite Canucks. I fully support Miller's comments, and I will be behind any plans that will put the players and their families health and safety in the first place.

Miller's a keeper.   I forgive every lazy cross ice pass infront of our own net because well he's just a treat to watch and to have in the locker room.   Also a great example of a guy in his prime.   Don't get this idea that 28-32 year old players are "washed up"...Expect him to keep it up right until he's in his thirties.   And would be happy to give him another contact after this one. 

[alt kilgore]

So how much does this have to do with Bettman's contracts with Rogers and NBC?  

 

I seem to recall this talked about during the end of last season.  One of the main reasons they pushed through to complete the season. That there are a minimum of games they must play to fulfill their contract or lose millions.  

 

Is Bettman forcing them to complete the season for league money?

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Edited April 15, 2021 by kilgore

[Twilight Sparkle]

seeing people clowning the canucks for not speaking up when other teams were infected:

 

1. different divisions; no ones really keeping track of what's going on outside their own divisions

2. NO OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE HAS THIS BUSH LEAGUE SCHEDULE, how are the canucks even supposed to focus on ANYTHING else, other than trying to survive the season?

3. the league is now making this team playing the remaining games in a month, JUST AFTER recovering from corona. this is absolutely insane

[Canucklehead53]

4 minutes ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

seeing people clowning the canucks for not speaking up when other teams were infected:

 

1. different divisions; no ones really keeping track of what's going on outside their own divisions

2. NO OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE HAS THIS BUSH LEAGUE SCHEDULE, how are the canucks even supposed to focus on ANYTHING else, other than trying to survive the season?

3. the league is now making this team playing the remaining games in a month, JUST AFTER recovering from corona. this is absolutely insane

My biggest thoughts are that sure COVID has impacted others but not nearly to the same extent. A few players is different then essentially your entire roster

[King Heffy]

I stand behind Miller and will defend any player who decides to opt out after this.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I stand behind Miller and will defend any player who decides to opt out after this.

yup. All you need to do is look at how the NHL has treated head injuries to know not to trust what they say. Its up to the players and physicians to decide whats good for the players. 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[DownUndaCanuck]

Sounds pretty bad for fans but I trust our coaches and management will just shut down anyone who's not 100%, even if that's a big chunk of our team. I know Utica have had their issues lately too but if our main guys like Hughes are still sick, they shouldn't be forced to play and I doubt they would be.

 

You don't come back 75% fit after a fracture so you wouldn't after Covid like any other disease. Players shouldn't come back if they're not 100%, until then they can fill roster gaps with kids and Utica players.

 

Sure, that means at least half of our team are AHL players but who cares? The alternative is just not acceptable and I'm sure no one can force a sick player to play.

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, kilgore said:

So how much does this have to do with Bettman's contracts with Rogers and NBC?  

 

I seem to recall this talked about during the end of last season.  One of the main reasons they pushed through to complete the season. That there are a minimum of games they must play to fulfill their contract or lose millions.  

 

Is Bettman forcing them to complete the season for league money?

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.

.

Likely a lot.  And the players also have skin in this as it's a 50/50 split.  In a gate revenue run business for virtually no gate revenue for 1.3 seasons and likely most of two playoffs...well let's just say holding back 20% of all their pay this year for 58ish games was awfully generous and that both sides don't need a business admin course to understand the implications of losing money on HRR that doesn't include the gate. 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Sounds pretty bad for fans but I trust our coaches and management will just shut down anyone who's not 100%, even if that's a big chunk of our team. I know Utica have had their issues lately too but if our main guys like Hughes are still sick, they shouldn't be forced to play and I doubt they would be.

 

You don't come back 75% fit after a fracture so you wouldn't after Covid like any other disease. Players shouldn't come back if they're not 100%, until then they can fill roster gaps with kids and Utica players.

 

Sure, that means at least half of our team are AHL players but who cares? The alternative is just not acceptable and I'm sure no one can force a sick player to play.

Any player can get a doctors note from an independent doctor and refuse.   Not that they won't be feeling the pressure to  "dig deep" and all that of course they will.    For me the best case scenario is this is something that galvanizes the team.   Worst case the team refuses to play, and it turns into a massive debacle (over an injured player or guys that simply aren't ready yet figuring it out after the adrenaline is all used up by game three or four - and they become fatigued from it the point getting out of bed is a chore).  

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I’d advise the players to consult with their reps and make sure they have a good understanding of their rights, as laid out in their contracts, the CBA, and the 2020-21 Transition Rules. I’d also advise any player who got sick, to consult with their own doctor, as well as the team docs and league reps.

 

The players have pretty strict protections, written into the actual documents, that safeguard their health and well being. And if they have any concerns about how team or league medical personnel are looking out for their best interests, they can always consult their own doctor, or get a second opinion.

 

What absolutely should not happen is any player returning to action before he feels he’s physically, mentally, and medically ready to be cleared to play. And I’d suspect that no independent physician (as in one who isn’t employed by the team or league) would clear a player, if that player came in as a patient, and said he was having lingering post-Covid symptoms and didn’t feel he was ready to get back to work. And I’d hope that the team and league medical staff would take the same approach, and not rush anyone back who’s been sick.

 

But in some ways, it’s up to the guys to decide whether or not they’re fit to return and whether or not they believe they can cope with the new schedule.

 

If they feel they’re not ready, or there’s too much risk, they have a myriad of options that would allow them to delay their return to play, or opt out completely. They can not be forced, unless they allow themselves to be forced. It’s just not really “hockey culture” to admit anything that could be considered weakness, or to advocate for oneself individually, and go against the expectations for the whole team.

 

It’s also up to the team and the GM to make sure that the players don’t feel forced or like they’d be letting the team down if they choose to look after their own health. 
 

Everyone involved should be making sure that nobody feels like they’re being asked to do something extreme, or that they’re putting their health at risk. If any players are feeling that way, then the league, team, PA, and medical experts need to go back to the drawing board, and come up with a better approach than what they’ve got currently.

Your correct.  The CBA has explicit rules about using a third party doctor, which for sure covers this too, so a players isn't sent back before he's ready.    This is a result of "old school" hockey where players were both admired and to some degree expected to play injured.    Babych comes to mind having his career cut short as a result of playing injured during PHI run to the final.    There's a difference playing game seven with cracked ribs and wrapping up a joke of a covid season just to get a fair draft spot, TV deal or whatever it is.    Just hope the players are capable and that this won't backfire in a way that's bad for the team. 

[Tinky-Winky]

4 hours ago, combover said:

while I agree with JT and respect him calling out the league. However. 
We have guys that have sat on the taxi squad and a few call ups plus those who haven’t got sick.

Play  the crap out of them and rest the ones who need it even if it’s on the bench PP and limited minutes. 

send a message to the league that our players safety and Heath come first especially when we’ve been terrible all season. 

the coach and so called GM should be able to manage the players ice that need it.isn’t that their JOB!
 

This, sit the vets and play the kids, problem solved ...slowly bring in the vets in a week or so till they get some practices in and if they feel up to playing, but yes ...play the kids more to finish the season

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

I stand behind Miller and will defend any player who decides to opt out after this.

Didn't Baertschi get some heat during the playoffs for opting-out?

Not saying he would have necessarily played in any games, but probably rubbed some the wrong way.  

[TheCammer]

4 hours ago, joe-max said:

I wonder whether Canucks fans will have enough common sense not to hate on players, coaches and management should they dare lose one of the upcoming games.

Unfortunately, based on the history I've witnessed on this forum there will be a contingent of misguided bitching and whining. I hope I'm proven wrong

[combover]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

I stand behind Miller and will defend any player who decides to opt out after this.

100% 

and same if JB comes out and says he’s shutting down a player that they feel would be a risk. Just For example hughes is said to have lost a fair bit of weight.

if JB said it’s not safe for him to play id be 100% behind that even if the player disagrees. 
just like what happen to Manny

[KoreanHockeyFan]

If professional athletes can't even have their health concerns properly heard by a professional sports leagues, imagine what normal people (e.g. factories, retail stores, etc) are going through right now trying to even just get 1 sick day due to COVID. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

40 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Your correct.  The CBA has explicit rules about using a third party doctor, which for sure covers this too, so a players isn't sent back before he's ready.    This is a result of "old school" hockey where players were both admired and to some degree expected to play injured.    Babych comes to mind having his career cut short as a result of playing injured during PHI run to the final.    There's a difference playing game seven with cracked ribs and wrapping up a joke of a covid season just to get a fair draft spot, TV deal or whatever it is.    Just hope the players are capable and that this won't backfire in a way that's bad for the team. 

Yeah, it all just strikes me as extremely short sighted. We’re just developing the knowledge and doing the studies on longterm effects of Covid, and haven’t really got much good data at all on the variants, never mind the developing science on Covid “classic.”

 

We honestly don’t know what kind of impacts this outbreak will have on the careers of these players. But common sense should tell us that pushing players into a ridiculous schedule, that could be risky for healthy individuals with no post-viral condition, doesn’t seem like a smart idea. Taxing a recovering body after a serious virus often has bad outcomes, and the league seems to be being very cavalier with the health (especially longterm) of its players.