[Proposal] Trade prior to Expansion Draft to improve our RHD

[khay]

9 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Funny how every year, everyone wants to rip off the Lightning because they are in cap hell.  Somehow, they are always fine.  Killorn is not a cap dump, he's a decent player with a decent contract.  He's a consistent 0.5PPG, not bad for a middle 6 player who can move up and down the lineup.  

 

If they want cap space, they could trade Ondrej Palat and his 5.3M$ who has 1 more year left on his deal and is currently having a career year.  He could be a cap dump and return decent asset for them.  Losing him won't really hurt them.

 

I actually see tampa protecting only 8 players  Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak and Foote.

 

That leaves guys like Johnson, Mcdonough, Gourde, Killorn, Joseph, Stephens and Palat.  I mean, there are some decent players in there, but I don't think Tampa is going to lose any sleep by losing one of these guys.  If Seattle takes any guys with term, Tampa is probably happy, while Joseph and Stephens a cheap decent prospect, they are 24 years old and have yet to make a huge impact on this roster.    I don't see Tampa paying too much for them to take a specific guy.  

This seems like the most reasonable course of action for Tampa unless they strike a deal with Seattle to dump additional cap at the expense of say, Foote.

 

Seattle takes XXX and YYY whose salaries exceed 10 mil combined, in exchange for Cal Foote. 

 

From Seattle's perspectives, XXX and YYY are likely to be a decent NHL players, could be Palat and McDonagh for example.

 

[The_Rocket]

Forget Tampa, we’re not getting Cernak or Foote pretty much guaranteed. They will go 4-4-1 and then dump Johnson and palat in the offseason. Their situation isn’t as bad as everyone says. All their cap dumps are still good players. 
 

Should look at the canes or Colorado or Anaheim or Pittsburg or Florida. 
 

Rathbone and woo are very valuable trade chips in this instance due to their ED exemption status. A team can trade away a defensemen without totally giving up their depth in the position

[4petesake]

11 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Funny how every year, everyone wants to rip off the Lightning because they are in cap hell.  Somehow, they are always fine.  Killorn is not a cap dump, he's a decent player with a decent contract.  He's a consistent 0.5PPG, not bad for a middle 6 player who can move up and down the lineup.  

 

If they want cap space, they could trade Ondrej Palat and his 5.3M$ who has 1 more year left on his deal and is currently having a career year.  He could be a cap dump and return decent asset for them.  Losing him won't really hurt them.

 

I actually see tampa protecting only 8 players  Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak and Foote.

 

That leaves guys like Johnson, Mcdonough, Gourde, Killorn, Joseph, Stephens and Palat.  I mean, there are some decent players in there, but I don't think Tampa is going to lose any sleep by losing one of these guys.  If Seattle takes any guys with term, Tampa is probably happy, while Joseph and Stephens a cheap decent prospect, they are 24 years old and have yet to make a huge impact on this roster.    I don't see Tampa paying too much for them to take a specific guy.  

We grabbed JT because of their cap problems so why wouldn’t we go back to the well again? The “somehow they’re always fine” is because of moves like this. Worth exploring in my opinion.

[elvis15]

6 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I think if TBL protect Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak and Foote, then there is a real risk that Seattle selects Joseph. This is a problem for TBL because they actually NEED to get rid of two of their larger contracts. That is why they will lose sleep on making sure SEA selects one of their bigger contracts.

Then they just offer incentive for Seattle to take who they want. And if Seattle gets a good player, they will need to take some cap to get above the cap floor. They aren't going to take all cheap, young players.

[elvis15]

39 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

We grabbed JT because of their cap problems so why wouldn’t we go back to the well again? The “somehow they’re always fine” is because of moves like this. Worth exploring in my opinion.

In this case we don't have the cap to offer them a pick/prospect and steal back a solid roster player with a cap hit. They weren't going to take crap for Miller, and they likely won't for anything they do to get out of the mess they're in next year.

[Lancaster]

16 hours ago, Provost said:

There is no world where we can fit those cap hits on our roster.  The cost of exiting enough money to make it work would be horrific.

 

There is no world where Tampa gives away Cernak for nothing.

 

Tampa is better off letting expansion in play out and seeing who Seattle takes.

 

Gadjovich isn’t likely ever to become an NHLer, why would anyone trade for him?

To be fair, Gadjovich is play extremely well in the AHL currently.  11 goals in 13 games.  

Not saying he's a lock for the big league, but he's on the right track in terms of development.  

[mll]

13 hours ago, Amaneey said:

I heard somewhere that Kucherov doesn't need to be protected for the ED since he missed the season and will likely only be back for the playoffs. Not sure if this is true, trying to find more info on this... Anyone else able to shed more light?

 

 

 

That’s incorrect.  Only players with a career ending injury are automatically exempt.  The NHL with input from the NHLPA makes that determination.  There were a dozen players last time. 

[BigTramFan]

17 hours ago, Provost said:

There is no world where we can fit those cap hits on our roster.  The cost of exiting enough money to make it work would be horrific.

Huh? As stated in the OP that roster comes to $81m so it fits fine. The only money we exit is an Eriksson buy out, which is a good move anyway.

[Provost]

7 hours ago, Lancaster said:

To be fair, Gadjovich is play extremely well in the AHL currently.  11 goals in 13 games.  

Not saying he's a lock for the big league, but he's on the right track in terms of development.  

He is.

 

I am discounting this year a lot for the AHL because it is the lowest level of competition the league has ever had.

 

Taxi squads means the bulk of the best players that are normally in the AHL just aren’t there.  The gap is made up by lower level ECHL type players.

 

Middling players should be tearing it up this year.

[timberz21]

18 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I think if TBL protect Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak and Foote, then there is a real risk that Seattle selects Joseph. This is a problem for TBL because they actually NEED to get rid of two of their larger contracts. That is why they will lose sleep on making sure SEA selects one of their bigger contracts.

A 24 years with identical numbers as Gaudette.  I don't want this to turn into a Benning sucks argument, but Gaudette been shopped around for a while with no takers, I'd doubt Tampa will go out of they way to protect him.  They might pay a small fee, but Seattle won't get the return Vegas got on these type of players, that's for sure.

 

Aside Johnson, I'm pretty sure there is a market for guys like Palat, Gourde or Killorn.  Why would Tampa pay Seattle to take these guys, when they can get other teams to pay for them.

Edited April 16, 2021 by timberz21

[timberz21]

12 hours ago, 4petesake said:

We grabbed JT because of their cap problems so why wouldn’t we go back to the well again? The “somehow they’re always fine” is because of moves like this. Worth exploring in my opinion.

JT was a hockey deal, we paid fair market value for him (even more according to CDC at the time).   JT didn't was a cap dump, he was a player we wanted.   The same could be said with Palat and Killorn, but the OP seems to suggest we could steal away Cernak and take a supposedly "cap dump" in Killorn, for a mediocre pick.  Not going to happen.

[BigTramFan]

12 hours ago, timberz21 said:

A 24 years with identical numbers as Gaudette.

Are you talking about Mathieu Joseph having identical numbers as Gaudette? Both 24, but quite different numbers...

Joseph: 43 games, 10g, 6a

Gaudette: 33 games, 4g, 3a 

[BigTramFan]

12 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Aside Johnson, I'm pretty sure there is a market for guys like Palat, Gourde or Killorn.  Why would Tampa pay Seattle to take these guys, when they can get other teams to pay for them.

I disagree that teams will pay for Palat, Gourde and Killorn. Their cap hit is too high for the current market. Anyway, we will soon see what happens. My prediction is that TBL will pay Seattle plus one other team to offload two out of Johnson, Killorn, Palat and Gourde. 

[timberz21]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:29 PM, BigTramFan said:

Are you talking about Mathieu Joseph having identical numbers as Gaudette? Both 24, but quite different numbers...

Joseph: 43 games, 10g, 6a

Gaudette: 33 games, 4g, 3a 

Mathieu Joseph 28G 22A 50Pts in 151 games

Adam Gaudette 21G 31A 52Pts in 153 games

 

pretty damn close if you ask me.

[IBatch]

On 4/15/2021 at 7:38 PM, The_Rocket said:

Forget Tampa, we’re not getting Cernak or Foote pretty much guaranteed. They will go 4-4-1 and then dump Johnson and palat in the offseason. Their situation isn’t as bad as everyone says. All their cap dumps are still good players. 
 

Should look at the canes or Colorado or Anaheim or Pittsburg or Florida. 
 

Rathbone and woo are very valuable trade chips in this instance due to their ED exemption status. A team can trade away a defensemen without totally giving up their depth in the position

It is bad though.   The only reason they haven't been forced to do two large cap dumps this season is because Kucherov is out.   Point's deal is also up, that's going to cost them a few more million right there.   Johnson is a serviceable player and any team could of got him for free when he was waived.   I'd say the same thing would happen to Killorn if he's waived - simply cost too much and there isn't a market for them.   Palat is having a career year because Kucherov is out ... he's also a tough fit for any team, but i'm sure some GM might make room if they need wingers on that side (please god not us!) he might catch a 3rd or something.   But not much.  

 

The ED is going to help save their bacon a little, but IF all these guys were signed for next year they'd be way over the 10% the first day.     Tax break contracts, and Kucherov in the wings ... these guys are incredible because of these two things.  Arguably icing a team with 35% more cap then any other team this year once the playoffs come because their deals don't have to be as large (take home pay on their top players is the same a guys like Mathews in TO...)..

[BigTramFan]

On 4/21/2021 at 2:43 AM, IBatch said:

It is bad though.   The only reason they haven't been forced to do two large cap dumps this season is because Kucherov is out.   Point's deal is also up, that's going to cost them a few more million right there.   Johnson is a serviceable player and any team could of got him for free when he was waived.   I'd say the same thing would happen to Killorn if he's waived - simply cost too much and there isn't a market for them.   Palat is having a career year because Kucherov is out ... he's also a tough fit for any team, but i'm sure some GM might make room if they need wingers on that side (please god not us!) he might catch a 3rd or something.   But not much.  

 

The ED is going to help save their bacon a little, but IF all these guys were signed for next year they'd be way over the 10% the first day.     Tax break contracts, and Kucherov in the wings ... these guys are incredible because of these two things.  Arguably icing a team with 35% more cap then any other team this year once the playoffs come because their deals don't have to be as large (take home pay on their top players is the same a guys like Mathews in TO...)..

It would be worth seeing if VAN can work something out with TBL and DET...

 

 

 

[morrissex95]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:39 PM, BigTramFan said:

I think if TBL protect Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak and Foote, then there is a real risk that Seattle selects Joseph. This is a problem for TBL because they actually NEED to get rid of two of their larger contracts. That is why they will lose sleep on making sure SEA selects one of their bigger contracts.

They'll send Johnson to Seattle and Killorn to Detroit 

[BigTramFan]

58 minutes ago, morrissex95 said:

They'll send Johnson to Seattle and Killorn to Detroit 

And they will need to add significant sweeteners like a 1st or Foote to both deals. They probably won't be getting a 3rd round pick back.

 

Then there is the high chance that Killorn has Detroit on his 16 team no-trade list. There is also the potential that Seattle choose someone else other than Johnson, even when offered a sweetener.

 

If TBL does the deal above with VAN (Johnson + Killorn + Foote + 1st) for VAN's 3rd, then they are in control of who they get rid of and the overall cost is about the same.

 

I'm not saying TBL will do it, but it's gotta be worth a try!

Edited April 24, 2021 by BigTramFan

[BigTramFan]

Double post..

Edited April 24, 2021 by BigTramFan

[morrissex95]

23 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

And they will need to add significant sweeteners like a 1st or Foote to both deals. They probably won't be getting a 3rd round pick back.

 

Then there is the high chance that Killorn has Detroit on his 16 team no-trade list. There is also the potential that Seattle choose someone else other than Johnson, even when offered a sweetener.

 

If TBL does the deal above with VAN (Johnson + Killorn + Foote + 1st) for VAN's 3rd, then they are in control of who they get rid of and the overall cost is about the same.

 

I'm not saying TBL will do it, but it's gotta be worth a try!

Killorn would be an idiot to refuse a trade to Detroit, especially if Tampa wins another cup this year.

 

Killorn will receive better minutes in Detroit and although he's on the older end Detroit can trade him for additional assets in two years. If they're good enough, they can use him for a playoff run. They won't be good enough and I suspect they land one of the good young forward in the 2022 draft.

 

Seattle will definitely take Johnson. He was previously a 72-point player, all the Lightning need to do is cough up a prospect to get them to take him. Meanwhile, depending on Tampa makes available after the season and what trades happen, Johnson could easily be the BPA for Seattle. They won't take him for free but it won't be as costly as you think. Plus Tyler Johnson is a Washington-born player. Perfect first captain for the Seattle Kraken, who will likely be bottom-feeders for a few years. They won't have the same success VGK as they got extremely lucky.

 

If I'm Tampa, I'd be really conflicted about what to do about the expansion draft. One of Seattle's top players will be picked off of Tampa that is simply a fact.