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56 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Defunding the police is a good idea.....abolishing the police is not...

 

The reason we don't talk about defunding doctors for malpractice is because medicine is what they are trained to do. If we were paying them to practice medicine as well as engineering, but their building kept collapsing, then yes, defunding might be something to consider.

 

Defunding police is basically a good idea with a serious PR problem. People hear it and interpret it as abolishing police, which it is not.

 

I completely agree with your last paragraph however....It's always made me shake my head at how much people love to blame government for how their lives are going.

so.... are left side politicians trying to play a game here, and use the woke word when they mean something else? 

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8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

so.... are left side politicians trying to play a game here, and use the woke word when they mean something else? 

I can't tell you what politicians are thinking.....other than that very few, if any of them are actually advocating for no police at all. Don't ask me why they haven't come up with a better phrase to describe what they mean, because I'm as confused as anyone.

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2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I can't tell you what politicians are thinking.....other than that very few, if any of them are actually advocating for no police at all. Don't ask me why they haven't come up with a better phrase to describe what they mean, because I'm as confused as anyone.

I think there's a whole bunch of things at play, the arms race to.demonstrate being woke on the left, to US media influence, and some good intentions. The defund phrase reminds me of the 'all cops are bastards' thing, which is far from true. 

 

Its hard to have a discussion when you have to start at such a polarized place. 

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40 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I can't tell you what politicians are thinking.....other than that very few, if any of them are actually advocating for no police at all. Don't ask me why they haven't come up with a better phrase to describe what they mean, because I'm as confused as anyone.

I was in the middle of writing a long rambling post about the use of the term “defund the police” when a post by @gurn popped up saying it better and a lot more succinct than I could have. I know that reallocation of police funds is not a zippy catchphrase but would better describe what many are agreeable to. Spend less on the militarization of police and much more money and time on hiring and training.


 

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20 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

You are ok with kids,

 

1) blatantly violating a provincial law that says this public park is currently closed.

2) blatantly violating Covid protocol by not wearing a double mask (or in their case, any mask) and in effect, endangering the lives of both others and themselves

3) attempting to flee police officers

 

???

 


1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No

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20 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think there's a whole bunch of things at play, the arms race to.demonstrate being woke on the left, to US media influence, and some good intentions. The defund phrase reminds me of the 'all cops are bastards' thing, which is far from true. 

 

Its hard to have a discussion when you have to start at such a polarized place. 

My question would be ‘didn’t politicians always have the ability to defund the police’? They set budgets, direction and priorities already. If so many police departments are malfunctioning then don’t the politicians have some responsibility? I used to sit on a community policing committee which had no real scope. Informative but not much else.

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2 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

My question would be ‘didn’t politicians always have the ability to defund the police’? They set budgets, direction and priorities already. If so many police departments are malfunctioning then don’t the politicians have some responsibility? I used to sit on a community policing committee which had no real scope. Informative but not much else.

thats kind of what I was thinking. We constantly underfund policing at the municipal level. I have zero issues with re-focusing, or even just funding, better mental health initiatives, that seems like an obvious place to improve. But I do think we also try to get away with the cheapest policing possible and then wonder why we recruit bad police that seem to slip through the cracks. 

 

When you have people being shot at wellness checks and gangs openly killing each other in places like Coal Habour, you have to think the politicians don't have clue what they are doing on this file. 

 

When you were on the committee, would it have made a difference if you guys had some say in the budgeting? 

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4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

My question would be ‘didn’t politicians always have the ability to defund the police’? They set budgets, direction and priorities already. If so many police departments are malfunctioning then don’t the politicians have some responsibility? I used to sit on a community policing committee which had no real scope. Informative but not much else.

That's a good question, because with so many communities in Canada using the RCMP, it's hard to know what is in those contracts.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that although we in Canada have our share of problems with policing, we don't experience it on anywhere near the level that they do in the states. Therefore we haven't seen much of a push in this direction.

 

I don't know if you were around when@Wetcoaster was here, but he was a former BC lawyer, who had a lot of insight into the inner workings of the RCMP and VPD. One thing he and I criticized quite often, was the paramilitary structure of Canadian police forces, particularly the RCMP. Ask anyone who's been to the RCMP training facility in Regina, if you want to know more about that.

 

One thing the Americans have done correctly is the FBI. It's basically their best and brightest and I believe if Canada had something similar, we might see less incidents like the Nova Scotia shooting. IMO, creating an elite force like this, coupled with hiring mental health professionals to handle things like wellness checks, is exactly what "Defund the police" should look like.

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On 4/24/2021 at 4:24 AM, Ilunga said:

I have been around and handled firearms before you were born.

 so there is no partially about it.

I certainly do not "parrot" others beliefs on this subject,I have my own and they are well informed.

 

You are entitled to your beliefs as I am mine.

 

Guns are not "games" to me they are instruments designed to kill.

 

On this we will have to agree to disagree since neither of us seems to want to change our opinion

Biggest problem to me besides wacky gun laws in the U.S, is the fact that people do not give guns the “respect” that they deserve. Device that can inflict mass damage, injuries and death.

Folks leaving loaded guns all over the place to youth with their saggy pants and guns tucked in their drawers.

No training and not even rudimentary knowledge of how guns work.

 

 

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7 hours ago, You Mad Bro? said:


1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No

I don’t understand how anyone can be ok with kids not wearing masks and going to a park that was officially labeled “closed” due to covid protocols.  These kids put themselves in a position where they became a health risk not only to themselves, but to others around them.  Maybe these kids are friends with Adam Gaudette and Adam’s wife and share similar philosophies?  Who knows.

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I still think the main problem isn't really how much money is spent, but how it is spent.

If cops had mandatory education,, with (for example) a degree in Criminal Psychology (and/or relevant fields) as a prerequisite, perhaps they'd be much better off in situations that too often escalate into tragedies.

At the very least a high school diploma alone doesn't appear to be enough.

Edited by Red Light Racicot
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14 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Biggest problem to me besides wacky gun laws in the U.S, is the fact that people do not give guns the “respect” that they deserve. Device that can inflict mass damage, injuries and death.

Folks leaving loaded guns all over the place to youth with their saggy pants and guns tucked in their drawers.

No training and not even rudimentary knowledge of how guns work.

 

 

Totally agree with you.

 

Owning a firearm is not a right,it is a responsibility that should be taken very seriously.

 

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21 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Biggest problem to me besides wacky gun laws in the U.S, is the fact that people do not give guns the “respect” that they deserve. Device that can inflict mass damage, injuries and death.

Folks leaving loaded guns all over the place to youth with their saggy pants and guns tucked in their drawers.

No training and not even rudimentary knowledge of how guns work.

I think this is always going to be the case, when so many fetishize their weapons. They should be seen as a tool, but with many, they become prized possessions, like a muscle car, or a guitar collection....

 

Case in point: One of my nephews is an amateur Blacksmith. He actually makes swords, knives and armour.....and he's good at it. He would love to carry them around with him all the time, because he's proud of his work. However, that's a non-starter, because it freaks people out. (The fact that he's the spitting image of Floki from Vikings doesn't help)

 

I think most reasonable people would say that a sword is a far less dangerous item to be walking around with than a semi-automatic rifle, but in several states, people are just just fine with others walking around with them, as they go about their day to day business....

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21 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

I still think the main problem isn't really how much money is spent, but how it is spent.

If cops had mandatory education,, with (for example) a degree in Criminal Psychology (and/or relevant fields) as a prerequisite, perhaps they'd be much better off in situations that too often escalate into tragedies.

At the very least a high school diploma alone doesn't appear to be enough.

It isn’t. They require at least 30 post-secondary credits and the majority of their hires have a degree or equivalent. 

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6 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think this is always going to be the case, when so many fetishize their weapons. They should be seen as a tool, but with many, they become prized possessions, like a muscle car, or a guitar collection....

 

Case in point: One of my nephews is an amateur Blacksmith. He actually makes swords, knives and armour.....and he's good at it. He would love to carry them around with him all the time, because he's proud of his work. However, that's a non-starter, because it freaks people out. (The fact that he's the spitting image of Floki from Vikings doesn't help)

 

I think most reasonable people would say that a sword is a far less dangerous item to be walking around with than a semi-automatic rifle, but in several states, people are just just fine with others walking around with them, as they go about their day to day business....

My wife brought her best friend to visit me about 20 years ago, when she saw pair of kamas and katana in my bedroom. Needless to say she got scared, thinking I might be waiting for her to fall asleep and chop her up.

 

As far as your gun point, I don’t care if people put their junk in the barrel or take nude selfies while wearing gun belt only. What I want is the respect for tool used to kill and maim. I don’t want it fully loaded where kids can get it. Leaving it in unlocked cars, tucking it in their Nike shorts and shooting them selves in the groin like Plaxico Buress did or forgetting it in the luggage and whole bunch of really dumb accidents.

 

Because let’s face it, the type of gun accidents that happen it the U.S are ridiculous because of the cowboy mentality. You never hear these types of “accidents” in other countries that have high gun ownership like Canada, Switzerland, Sweden etc. Those people see a gun as something to be feared and respected, it’s not a toy to be played with.

 

 

 

Edited by CBH1926
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22 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

I still think the main problem isn't really how much money is spent, but how it is spent.

If cops had mandatory education,, with (for example) a degree in Criminal Psychology (and/or relevant fields) as a prerequisite, perhaps they'd be much better off in situations that too often escalate into tragedies.

At the very least a high school diploma alone doesn't appear to be enough.


It goes without saying that more and better training makes a huge difference.

 

 

 

 

B0D008B7-9DBC-4B29-96B5-32EB6D85D97F.jpeg

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I don't disagree that better training and more training will help - however, it's one thing to provide better and more training, but it's a whole other kettle of fish for the person being trained to actually "get it".  Without proper controls in place to ensure the trainees "get it" (through setting standards, testing, reinforcement, re-testing, and failing those who don't "get it" at any stage of the process), you're just as well with dumping the money used for the training programs into the sea.

 

Having said that, most police forces are understaffed, and can't wait for the training to be complete - I would speculate that they would rather have someone partially trained and raring to go instead of waiting for graduates of the training programs at the other end, hoping that they'd complete sooner.  Given the educational backgrounds of many law enforcement officers (high school diploma, maybe a college certificate, but rarely a higher-education degree), their receptiveness to training in general isn't likely to be high, at least not when it comes to concepts such as racial/gender bias, or sensitivity training, or de-escalation methods.  I think they'd probably be more receptive to training elements such as use of force, or memorizing the criminal code, or hands-on concepts such as weapons training or hand-to-hand combat, which gets immediate results and doesn't require quite as much analytical skill.

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  • 2 months later...

This sentence seemsa lot too lenient to me:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/an-egregious-mistake-conditional-sentence-for-police-officer-who-assaulted-suspect/ar-AALBaho?ocid=msedgntp

CALGARY — A police officer who slammed a handcuffed woman to the ground face first has been given a 30-day conditional sentence for what a judge called an "egregious mistake."

That means Alex Dunn, who was found guilty in December of assault causing bodily harm, will serve no time in jail, but rather a combination of 24-hour house arrest followed by house arrest with a curfew.

"I have faith he will make a difference and turn things around. This has been very hard for Mr. Dunn," provincial court Judge Michelle Christopher said Tuesday. "You need to put this behind you. I don't think you're a bad person ... a bad thing happened."

 

The constable had brought in Dalia Kafi in December 2017 for breaking a curfew. A security camera in the arrest area at Calgary police headquarters captured what happened. The video played during his trial showed him throwing Kafi down and blood pooling on the ground where her face hit the floor. 

Because of the loss of public confidence in law enforcement ... in all cases of police brutality, police must be held accountable when breaking the law," the judge said.

"As a vulnerable person, handcuffed in the care of police, the complainant needed protection and not assault."

Kafi is Black, but there was no suggestion from lawyers that the attack was racially motivated.

The judge agreed.

"There is no evidence that race is a factor in the actual assault," Christopher said.

"This was an egregious mistake. The accused has otherwise been a law-abiding contributing member of society whose actions, while hurtful, were not premeditated. He acted out of frustration and he overreacted."

Christopher said the attack was not sustained and the woman's injuries were at the low end of the scale.

"These are not circumstances that speak to the need for incarceration. I find the accused's moral culpability is relatively low."

The Crown had asked for a nine-month jail term. Dunn's lawyer recommended the conditional sentence.

Kafi had earlier attended the sentencing hearing and said in a victim impact statement that she was still suffering effects from the attack. 

"I find it hard to trust people after the assault, especially the police. I still can't understand how this could possibly happen at a police station from someone I thought was there to protect me,'' she wrote. 

This report by The Canadian Press was first published June 29, 2021.

Bill Graveland, The Canadian Press

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Seems to me, people can now throw others on the floor causing head wounds, then say to the Judge" Well Judge, since I'm not a police officer, and not subject to a higher standard because of that; I'm not sure why I'm here?" 

New standard set.

7 minutes ago, gurn said:

Because of the loss of public confidence in law enforcement ... in all cases of police brutality, police must be held accountable when breaking the law," the judge said.

A whole 30 day stay at home sentence, even with "the loss of public confidence in law enforcement"

Judge should have a review done on this and previous decisions, imo

.

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