J.I.A.H.N Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Ok, I would like to discuss a proposal I seen on HF Boards There, the proposal was argued both ways, with both parties saying they would not do it, both parties thought they paid too much I am not advocating the trade, but I am mixed in my view, and thought I would bring it here to discuss. Quinn Hughes and Loui Eriksson for Ty Smith, Pavel Zacha and NYI 2021 1st (24 OA) Now, I am not too worried one way or another on whether Loui Eriksson is in this trade or not, but IMO, I think this is an interesting trade suggestion. Hughes has 31 points in 39 games, and a -15 rating, he will command a contract in the $6,000,000 to $7,000,000 Million per year, next year................. Loui Eriksson has a cap hit of $6,000,000 for 1 year Pavel Zacha is a 25 point Center, above 50% FO%, being used as the #1 center right now, but will be slated as a #3, behind Hischier and Hughes next year. $2,250,000 for 1 more year. Ty Smith is a 1st year Offensive LHD who has 21 points in 44 games and a -5 this year. He is at $863,333 for 2 more years The 1st belongs to NYI, who are will play against Wash, Pitts, and Boston to get out of their Division, all 4 winning % are very close, so the pick may become better, with a first round loss. Now, I am not saying that Smith is as good as Quinn Hughes, but Smith's even strength points are comparable to Hughes at 15 vs Hughes 16 points, and does play on a lesser team. So, the difference in Hughes vs Smith is in the Power play. Pavel Zacha is 6'3" 210 lb, and will be 25 years old on April 24th. There is not doubt Quinn is a fan favorite, and is the best Offensive Dman we have ever had, but the thought of Zacha and another 1st, does beg the question, of over all value. I see merits of keeping him and of trading him, and thought I would bring it up as a question of what you think. Please try not to comment with your heart.....we know that answer! Thanks for reading! 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrissex95 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 I've always been high on Zacha especially in his draft year but we'd probably need to give the Devils a 2nd rounder to facilitate that, if not more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Ok, I would like to discuss a proposal I seen on HF Boards There, the proposal was argued both ways, with both parties saying they would not do it, both parties thought they paid too much I am not advocating the trade, but I am mixed in my view, and thought I would bring it here to discuss. Quinn Hughes and Loui Eriksson for Ty Smith, Pavel Zacha and NYI 2021 1st (24 OA) Now, I am not too worried one way or another on whether Loui Eriksson is in this trade or not, but IMO, I think this is an interesting trade suggestion. Hughes has 31 points in 39 games, and a -15 rating, he will command a contract in the $6,000,000 to $7,000,000 Million per year, next year................. Loui Eriksson has a cap hit of $6,000,000 for 1 year Pavel Zacha is a 25 point Center, above 50% FO%, being used as the #1 center right now, but will be slated as a #3, behind Hischier and Hughes next year. $2,250,000 for 1 more year. Ty Smith is a 1st year Offensive LHD who has 21 points in 44 games and a -5 this year. He is at $863,333 for 2 more years The 1st belongs to NYI, who are will play against Wash, Pitts, and Boston to get out of their Division, all 4 winning % are very close, so the pick may become better, with a first round loss. Now, I am not saying that Smith is as good as Quinn Hughes, but Smith's even strength points are comparable to Hughes at 15 vs Hughes 16 points, and does play on a lesser team. So, the difference in Hughes vs Smith is in the Power play. Pavel Zacha is 6'3" 210 lb, and will be 25 years old on April 24th. There is not doubt Quinn is a fan favorite, and is the best Offensive Dman we have ever had, but the thought of Zacha and another 1st, does beg the question, of over all value. I see merits of keeping him and of trading him, and thought I would bring it up as a question of what you think. Please try not to comment with your heart.....we know that answer! Thanks for reading! interesting, i think the value of zacha and smith are probably close to each other. what would i pay for a 25 year old second line center? 2 1sts? a 1st a second and 4th? he must be close to his ceiling. what would i pay for a 0.5ppg D? a 1st a second, and a 4th? where is his ceiling? a 0.8ppg player like hughes is now? what would i pay for that potential a 1st? so together somewhere between there value would be 2 1sts, 2 seconds, 2 4ths or 4 1sts quinn hughes (Right now)is worth at least 3 1sts, maybe 3 1sts and a second at most. But his potential is staggering, but will he reach it or fix his defensive woes? what is his potential worth if he beccomes over a ppg dman 2 1sts? what is that value if he doesn't improve his defensive woes? there is so many questions that need to be answered? and realistically what are the odds that 2 different people come up with the same evaluation. I think if you made the trade have conditional picks adjusted for performance of hughes and smith maybe? but again what 2 different people would come up with the same evaluation. very very difficult trade. i came up with a similar proposal hughes podkolzin,LE for cirelli and sergechev. no one liked it on hf boards. but this was a couple months back and im not sure i would trade podkolzin now, hoglander maybe instead. Edited April 22, 2021 by Petey_BOI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 LE in the proposal already makes the trade unbalanced. Something more like... Hughes + Virtanen (or Roussel) for Smith, Sacha + 1st. Could be a good move but who knows. We'd probably lose on the deal as Hughes is the better player. I'd consider it if we don't make the playoffs and have a high draft pick. Because obviously, we are not just good enough to contend just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JM_ Posted April 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2021 Hughes is a special talent. He'll never have a physical element but we have a potential ppg d man in the making, at his high point in his career. We should be building around that. Even if he can't bring that during the playoffs, we need the regular season production. I get the desire to ditch Loui, but thats a mistake that is just too costly to get rid of. It would have happened by now if it were possible. Likely see hm bought out or demoted to the AHL, wherever that will be next year. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Just ask yourself who the best player in the deal is..... that will tell you whether or not this is a trade the Canucks should consider. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBossy Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: Hughes is a special talent. He'll never have a physical element but we have a potential ppg d man in the making, at his high point in his career. We should be building around that. Even if he can't bring that during the playoffs, we need the regular season production. I get the desire to ditch Loui, but thats a mistake that is just too costly to get rid of. It would have happened by now if it were possible. Likely see hm bought out or demoted to the AHL, wherever that will be next year. I don't think Quinn gets enough credit here sometimes - he isn't going to crush guys with hits but he knows how to angle them off and tie them up - he did it several times with Matthews in the TO games. To the original poster I say this - Hughes is the coveted offensive defenseman this team has needed for a long time and will only get better. But Zacha is also that highly coveted highly skilled centre. I would argue a straight up 1 for 1 trade would be equal in my books. Edited April 22, 2021 by MikeBossy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, MikeBossy said: I don't think Quinn gets enough credit here sometimes - he isn't going to crush guys with hits but he knows how to angle them off and tie them up - he did it several times with Matthews in the TO games. To the original poster I say this - Hughes is the coveted offensive defenseman this team has needed for a long time and will only get better. But Zacha is also that highly coveted highly skilled defenseman. I would argue a straight up 1 for 1 trade would be equal in my books. Mike, you may want to edit your post as Zacha is not a d-man. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, MikeBossy said: I don't think Quinn gets enough credit here sometimes - he isn't going to crush guys with hits but he knows how to angle them off and tie them up - he did it several times with Matthews in the TO games. To the original poster I say this - Hughes is the coveted offensive defenseman this team has needed for a long time and will only get better. But Zacha is also that highly coveted highly skilled defenseman. I would argue a straight up 1 for 1 trade would be equal in my books. I know you mean Smith. Zacha is actually a center. As Petey_Boi said, probably having reached his ceiling. He was a 6th OA pick in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) This is one of the better proposals that I’ve seen on here but I’d probably have to say no. Quinn Hughes is a one of a kind franchise defenseman and he’s the type of guy whose presence will attract other UFA’s to come here. Pettersson = Franchise C Hughes = Franchise D Demko = Franchise G Horvat = Matchups center Boeser = 1st line sniper Once all of our bad/transitional contracts go off the books between now and the Summer of 2022, the young core from above, in its entirety, will likely be able to attract some serious UFA’s that are looking to potentially join “the next Chicago.” Keep Quinn at all costs. Edited April 22, 2021 by DarkIndianRises 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 The reason this trade interested me was that the pieces are all good............I mean, there is no doubt Quinn is the best piece, But Smith is a 17 th OA pick, who is only in his first season himself, so I don't think he has reached his ceiling either Zacha is a 6th OA pick, who is a big body and can play up, when needed and a 24th this year, has the potential to be a good player also If Benning could turn that into another core piece, it would be crazy not to do it....................Could he? But as much as it sounds enticing, if it turned bad, its the Can Neely trade all over again..............But I do not necessarily prescribe to the BP wins the trade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 48 minutes ago, MikeBossy said: I don't think Quinn gets enough credit here sometimes - he isn't going to crush guys with hits but he knows how to angle them off and tie them up - he did it several times with Matthews in the TO games. To the original poster I say this - Hughes is the coveted offensive defenseman this team has needed for a long time and will only get better. But Zacha is also that highly coveted highly skilled defenseman. I would argue a straight up 1 for 1 trade would be equal in my books. for sure he can use his speed and skill to do that, I just meant he's not going to be an intimidating physical force in any way. He's a lot like Stecher that way, very capable but not big enough to impose his will on players, they have to be more skilled about it. I'd like to try to find a more physical d man on the right side, I think we're in really good shape for LHD with Hughes and Rathbone being our mobile puck movers and OJ picking up the defensive side too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 I think Hughes is only going to get better. His offense will increase, and his defensive awareness and acumen will too. He's a piece that a team builds with. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 @DarkIndianRises I know what you are suggesting in your last post. I get it and agree in part...............but Pettersson......................................Franchise Center Horvat............................................1st line Center Demko............................................Franchise Center Boeser............................................1st line RW Podkolzin........................................2nd line RW Smith..............................................1st line LHD Zacha..............................................2nd/3rd line Center Hoglander........................................2nd line LW 2021 1st (12 OA)............................ 2021 1st (24 OA)........................... 2021 2nd (44th OA)....................... Rathbone....................................... Juolevi........................................... Woo............................................... Lind................................................ McEwen......................................... Lockwood....................................... Motte.............................................. Highmore........................................ This looks like a Tampa Bay roster in the making. What the Hughes trade does, IMO, is probably controls the Cap a bit better, and fills in holes, that may take a year or more to fill. I am not advocating it, simply saying I see the merit of it. I think this is pretty close to a ready line up in 2 years. Especially when you add JT Miller Nate Schmidt Tyler Myers Nikita Tryamkin I think the question I want to see answered is, do we think Quinn Hughes can take over a game and control play? If the answer is yes, well, then there is no chance in hell that you trade him, but if you do not see that actually happening (and it is for greater minds than mine), then you can look at a move like this. Don't take this discussion to heart, as it ain't happening, but it does stir up some questions...................... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 It is interesting when you put the roster down on paper and then start projecting forward............. You have to start thinking that Miller, Schmidt, and Myers start aging out in 2 more years, and Horvat, Motte, Demko, Zacha start being your 27/28 year old veterans. I think you have to look at that before it happens to extract some value out of them. You certainly have to look at it for years 3 and 4 I am not saying any of this happens that way, but you can certainly see where we are heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 12 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Ok, I would like to discuss a proposal I seen on HF Boards That was your first mistake - visiting that site. You lost me right there......:). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c00kies Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 We badly need defense...as we still lack an identity there. I say no, as a 3rd line center is not more important than a top-pairing d-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: @DarkIndianRises I know what you are suggesting in your last post. I get it and agree in part...............but Pettersson......................................Franchise Center Horvat............................................1st line Center Demko............................................Franchise Center Boeser............................................1st line RW Podkolzin........................................2nd line RW Smith..............................................1st line LHD Zacha..............................................2nd/3rd line Center Hoglander........................................2nd line LW 2021 1st (12 OA)............................ 2021 1st (24 OA)........................... 2021 2nd (44th OA)....................... Rathbone....................................... Juolevi........................................... Woo............................................... Lind................................................ McEwen......................................... Lockwood....................................... Motte.............................................. Highmore........................................ This looks like a Tampa Bay roster in the making. What the Hughes trade does, IMO, is probably controls the Cap a bit better, and fills in holes, that may take a year or more to fill. I am not advocating it, simply saying I see the merit of it. I think this is pretty close to a ready line up in 2 years. Especially when you add JT Miller Nate Schmidt Tyler Myers Nikita Tryamkin I think the question I want to see answered is, do we think Quinn Hughes can take over a game and control play? If the answer is yes, well, then there is no chance in hell that you trade him, but if you do not see that actually happening (and it is for greater minds than mine), then you can look at a move like this. Don't take this discussion to heart, as it ain't happening, but it does stir up some questions...................... I’m of the opinion that Hughes IS the type of guy that can take over a game and control play with the right defensive partner. We saw traces of that last season when he was paired with Tanev. Ty Smith is a solid dman but I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as Hughes. Hughes, once he hits his potential, is the type of guy that will attract other UFA’s to play here imo. The other thing to consider is team chemistry. Hughes is a popular teammate and the Canucks are very tight knit as is. It’s not just about getting equal value for players via trade (and to be honest, that proposal you posted is very fair for both sides). It’s also about lockerroom cohesion and team chemistry and the Canucks already have that with Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Boeser, Demko, etc. These guys have gone to battle together and had a small but significant taste of success last year. Build on that collection of young players. The Canucks have some prospects/young guys that are close to being NHL ready and so they will give us the depth that we’re looking for (Podkolzin, Tryamkin, an improved Juolevi, possibly Rathbone, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: That was your first mistake - visiting that site. You lost me right there......:). Instead of just being happy that we won the last two games against the Leafs, most of those guys are focusing their efforts on the fact that we were outplayed and only won because of Holtby and Rittich. Very little mentioning of the boys recovering from Covid and stepping up the challenge. Most “Canucks fans” over there are real pieces of work....to put it mildly and politely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Quinn Hughes is not getting the respect he deserves. He came in straight from 1 year of college and has become, already, the best offensive defenseman in club history. He is also pretty effective defensively and will only get better. A 3rd line center can be signed. A Quinn Hughes cannot be acquired, accept if you are lucky enough that John Chayka is an idiot and takes Barrett f-ing Hayton. If the draft was re-done, some GMs might take Hughes 1st OA IMHO. Ty Smith is a very good player but will not win Norris Trophies. Quinn will be in the running a bunch of times. Tbh I wouldn't trade him for Smith and Jack Hughes, let alone Zacha. He is a unicorn, just enjoy 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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