[Report] Andrew Shaw announces retirement

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[bigbadcanucks]

Andrew Shaw...an honest, hard nosed, hard working, more heart than skill, pain-in-the-ass to play against type player with a motor and mouth that never stopped.  The prototypical modern day bottom six player.

 

When the Canucks got Highmore from Chicago, my immediate thought was, "wouldn't it be great if the Canucks got the next Andrew Shaw?".

 

As much as I hated Shaw, he's the type of player I wish the Canucks had more of. 

[Pears]

Another convenient retirement giving the Hawks some more cap relief. 

[timberz21]

So, who’s going to sacrifice himself and give Eriksson consécutives concussions during practices?

 

Just kidding, not wishing that on anybody, despite how bad I want that contract out.

[timberz21]

9 minutes ago, Pears said:

Another convenient retirement giving the Hawks some more cap relief. 

Convenient or responsible?  Maybe other doctors around the NHL ought to be more vocal about players health.

[bigbadcanucks]

8 minutes ago, Pears said:

Another convenient retirement giving the Hawks some more cap relief. 

Wouldn't it be something if a certain over-aged, over-paid, slow-skating Swede wearing no. 21 chose to retire? 

 

Shaw could have played out the rest of his contract on LTIR collecting collecting $2.9M he's contractually owed and saving the 'Hawks $3.9M AAV, but chose to retire.  

[bigbadcanucks]

Just now, bigbadcanucks said:

Wouldn't it be something if a certain over-aged, over-paid, slow-skating Swede wearing no. 21 chose to retire? 

 

Shaw could have played out the rest of his contract on LTIR collecting $2.9M he's contractually owed and saving the 'Hawks $3.9M AAV, but chose to retire.  That's the sort of character that's missing from Loui Loui.

 

(I'll take back the last statement in my post if Loui does the Canucks a solid and retires at the end of this season).

 

[mll]

1 hour ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Wouldn't it be something if a certain over-aged, over-paid, slow-skating Swede wearing no. 21 chose to retire? 

 

Shaw could have played out the rest of his contract on LTIR collecting collecting $2.9M he's contractually owed and saving the 'Hawks $3.9M AAV, but chose to retire.  

 

He’s going on LTIR.  He’s finally agreed to listen to the doctors and is retiring on medical grounds. The repetition of his concussions were concerning.  

 

 

 

[Drakrami]

Poor guy, just 29 and need to retire due to concussions. Best of luck! 

[bigbadcanucks]

31 minutes ago, mll said:

 

He’s going on LTIR.  He’s finally agreed to listen to the doctors and is retiring on medical grounds. The repetition of his concussions were concerning.  

 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying...sounded like Shaw was retiring.

[VegasCanuck]

3 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Thanks for clarifying...sounded like Shaw was retiring.

Filing his papers would mean that his contract stops getting paid. LTIR means he keeps collecting his salary, but doesn't really count against the team cap.

 

Considering LTIR lets teams circumvent the cap, look for his contract to be traded to Toronto, this coming summer.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Nothing convenient about concussions. 

Ask Ferland. 

[mll]

56 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Filing his papers would mean that his contract stops getting paid. LTIR means he keeps collecting his salary, but doesn't really count against the team cap.

 

Considering LTIR lets teams circumvent the cap, look for his contract to be traded to Toronto, this coming summer.

 

 

 

Toronto couldn’t wait to get out of LTIR as it seriously limited their roster flexibility.  

 

LTIR makes it harder for teams to spend up to the 81.5M cap on their regular roster.  Canucks were lucky and managed to lose only 10K this season after losing 170K from the cap last season because of LTIR.  This season St Louis lost 300K by using LTIR - their regular roster is at most 81.2K instead of 81.5M.  

 

It automatically creates bonus overages because teams can’t bank cap space in LTIR.  That’s why Vancouver has a 1.7M overage on their books this season for Pettersson/Hughes bonuses of last season.  There will be another carry over from this season to next.  

 

It limits who can get recalled because the performance bonuses have to be accounted for in the recall cap hit.  The player’s recall cap hit is no longer just the salary aav but the full contract’s aav.  It can more than double a player’s recall cap hit depending on his bonuses.

 

Last expansion draft teams were giving up assets to move out their LTIR contracts.  

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by mll

[-Vintage Canuck-]

1 hour ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Thanks for clarifying...sounded like Shaw was retiring.

The way I usually see it is: "retirement" = "hanging up the skates".

 

I think we could classify that as an unofficial retirement, as he will "stop playing the game".

[VegasCanuck]

35 minutes ago, mll said:

 

 

Toronto couldn’t wait to get out of LTIR as it seriously limited their roster flexibility.  

 

LTIR makes it harder for teams to spend up to the 81.5M cap on their regular roster.  Canucks were lucky and managed to lose only 10K this season after losing 170K last season because of LTIR.  This season St Louis lost 300K by using LTIR - their regular roster is at most 81.2K instead of 81.5M.  

 

It automatically creates bonus overages because teams can’t bank cap space in LTIR.  That’s why Vancouver has a 1.7M overage on their books this season for Pettersson/Hughes bonuses of last season.  There will be another carry over from this season to next.  

 

It limits who can get recalled because the performance bonuses have to be accounted for in the recall cap hit.  The player’s recall cap hit is no longer just the salary aav but the full contract’s aav.  It can more than double a player’s recall cap hit depending on his bonuses.

 

Last expansion draft teams were giving up assets to move out their LTIR contracts.  

 

The fact that Toronto and Tampa have both actively traded to acquire LTIR assets, shows that they are a benefit and a cap circumvention technique, used by General Managers in the NHL.

 

As evidence, See: https://www.nhl.com/lightning/news/tampa-bay-lightning-acquire-forward-marian-gaborik-goaltender-anders-nilsson-from-ottawa/c-319893458

 

Tampa sent Coburn, Paquette and a 2nd round pick to Ottawa in December, to acquire Nilsson and Gaborik, 2 guys who will never again play in the NHL, but provided them with the necessary LTIR cap relief to fit their Cup winning roster, under the NHL flat cap.

 

Here's another article about it from 2017, talking specifically about Toronto acquiring players on LTIR as a way to allow them to fit other players into the cap.

 

Its a weird rule, but it does allow for cap circumvention.

 

Without it, Tampa would currently be 17 million over the cap.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by VegasCanuck

[mll]

22 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

The fact that Toronto and Tampa have both actively traded to acquire LTIR assets, shows that they are a benefit and a cap circumvention technique, used by General Managers in the NHL.

 

As evidence, See: https://www.nhl.com/lightning/news/tampa-bay-lightning-acquire-forward-marian-gaborik-goaltender-anders-nilsson-from-ottawa/c-319893458

 

Tampa sent Coburn, Paquette and a 2nd round pick to Ottawa in December, to acquire Nilsson and Gaborik, 2 guys who will never again play in the NHL, but provided them with the necessary LTIR cap relief to fit their Cup winning roster, under the NHL flat cap.

 

 

 

Toronto was going to lose some 4M in cap space.  They had kept room to sign Marner.  LTIR only allows to exceed the cap up to the amount needed to remain cap compliant.  The money set aside for Marner would have been lost.  Horton had a 5.3M cap hit.  4M would have been covered by the money kept to sign Marner and they would have been allowed to exceed the cap by only 1.3M.  The money that exceeds the cap is only LTIR money.  LTIR first fills up the 81.5M and if there is anything else left it exceeds the cap. 

 

Ferland is an 3.5M cap hit.

If the regular roster is 80M then only 2M of his cap hit exceeds the cap and the other 1.5M are lost as included in the 81.5M.

If the regular roster is 81M then 3M of his cap hit exceeds the cap. 

The closer the active roster is to 81.5M the closer they are to get the full relief.  Often teams don’t manage to get the full relief.

 

Toronto had no way of building a roster that would avoid them losing those 4M.  By adding Clarkson it allowed them to get full relief for Horton.  Their active roster was still under the salary cap.  It’s only Horton/Clarkson that exceeded the cap.

 

They would have probably preferred to trade Horton and avoid LTIR but his contract was not insured.   Would have been so much easier while allowing to bank cap space and not be that limited in recalls.  Friedman in his 31 Thoughts indicated that it was a complicated dance and not something Toronto likely wanted to repeat.

 

Ottawa probably wanted to get rid of their LTIR contracts.  They had lots of players on ELCs and having LTIR contracts makes recalls complicated.  That was likely part of the cost for Tampa to move contracts out.  Let Tampa deal with the nuisance of operating in LTIR.

[VegasCanuck]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Toronto was going to lose some 4M in cap space.  They had kept room to sign Marner.  LTIR only allows to exceed the cap up to the amount needed to remain cap compliant.  The money set aside for Marner would have been lost.  Horton had a 5.3M cap hit.  4M would have been covered by the money kept to sign Marner and they would have been allowed to exceed the cap by only 1.3M.  The money that exceeds the cap is only LTIR money.  LTIR first fills up the 81.5M and if there is anything else left it exceeds the cap. 

 

Ferland is an 3.5M cap hit.

If the regular roster is 80M then only 2M of his cap hit exceeds the cap and the other 1.5M are lost as included in the 81.5M.

If the regular roster is 81M then 3M of his cap hit exceeds the cap. 

The closer the active roster is to 81.5M the closer they are to get the full relief.  Often teams don’t manage to get the full relief.

 

Toronto had no way of building a roster that would avoid them losing those 4M.  By adding Clarkson it allowed them to get full relief for Horton.  Their active roster was still under the salary cap.  It’s only Horton/Clarkson that exceeded the cap.

 

They would have probably preferred to trade Horton and avoid LTIR but his contract was not insured.   Would have been so much easier while allowing to bank cap space and not be that limited in recalls.  Friedman in his 31 Thoughts indicated that it was a complicated dance and not something Toronto likely wanted to repeat.

 

Ottawa probably wanted to get rid of their LTIR contracts.  They had lots of players on ELCs and having LTIR contracts makes recalls complicated.  That was likely part of the cost for Tampa to move contracts out.  Let Tampa deal with the nuisance of operating in LTIR.

I'm not saying that there's not complications in this process, I'm just saying that teams do use LTIR as a method of circumventing the cap, and sometimes go so far as to acquire contracts of players they know will never play again to do so.

 

Every team's needs are different. Some want to get rid of them based on how their roster is constructed, some want them so they can push the limits with an established roster when they are close or at the cap.

 

[mll]

3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I'm not saying that there's not complications in this process, I'm just saying that teams do use LTIR as a method of circumventing the cap, and sometimes go so far as to acquire contracts of players they know will never play again to do so.

 

Every team's needs are different. Some want to get rid of them based on how their roster is constructed, some want them so they can push the limits with an established roster when they are close or at the cap.

 

There is no benefit on having long term LTIR contracts other than to reach the floor, but even Ottawa is no longer a floor team.  

 

Someone on permanent LTIR is of no cap benefit and actually hurts the team’s cap situation.  GMs would have liked to get rid of it and just remove the cap hit but they didn’t have time to address the issue when revising the CBA last summer.  

 

The only circumvention is holding out a roster player on LTIR till the playoffs. 

[VegasCanuck]

23 minutes ago, mll said:

There is no benefit on having long term LTIR contracts other than to reach the floor, but even Ottawa is no longer a floor team.  

 

Someone on permanent LTIR is of no cap benefit and actually hurts the team’s cap situation.  GMs would have liked to get rid of it and just remove the cap hit but they didn’t have time to address the issue when revising the CBA last summer.  

 

The only circumvention is holding out a roster player on LTIR till the playoffs. 

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, and that's okay!

[mll]

59 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, and that's okay!

LTIR is a technical issue though - it’s mere cap accounting.  It’s not like arguing the value of a player which is subjective.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by mll