[Proposal] Bring PK Subban back to the North next year: VANCOUVER - NJ

[Ilya Mikheyev]

To Vancouver: PK Subban

 

To NJ: Loui Eriksson after his signing bonus is paid; Jake Virtanen; Roussel or Beagle at 50% off; a 3rd round pick

 

Why?

 

Total real dollar amount going to NJ: 1 + 3.4 + 1.5 = 5.9

Total real dollar amount coming to Vancouver = 8

 

Total cap hit going to NJ: 6 + 2.55 + 1.5 = 11

Total cap hit going to Vancouver: 9

 

Eriksson's cap hit is much larger than his dollar amount this coming year, which might make him moveable with the right deal. NJ and NJ fans do not want Subban on the team - and for fair reason, he's making 8 million a year and he's playing like a bottom pairing PP specialist... which ... is what the Canucks could play him as.

 

Right now the Canucks have Eriksson doing nothing. Subban is RHed, gritty, big defenseman. He's been bad in NJ but still has a lot of tools... I know he's too old to likely bounceback completely, but maybe one sheltered year is possible - for example keeping him AWAY from the penalty kill. He's still at about a .5 PPG pace these days, and could give the 2nd PP unit some fire power.

 

General analysis says NJ is trying to cute costs, even moving Kulikov's minor 1.15M pro-rated salary at the deadline (plus vets Zajac and Palmieri). Their owner is a billionaire who people think doesn't care much about hockey.

 

This deal saves their owner 2.1 million next year and Jake COULD still turn it around. Neither Jake or PK are going to turn it around in their current environments.

 

This NJ blog covers people general sentiment around Subban in NJ, but this quote sums it up pretty good:

 

Quote

If Fitzgerald gets a 3rd-round pick for Subban, some will lift him up as a Greek God. If he can somehow recover the 2nd-round pick the Devils still owe to the Predators, then he might be.

And:

Quote

The one reason the Devils might be looking to keep Subban is the Seattle Kraken expansion draft. He’s someone who easily helps them get to the cap floor (although, that might not be a problem), he has a huge personality that can sell tickets, and there’s the possibility he still has something left and the Devils just wasn’t the right fit. 

This deal keeps NJ above cap floor while saving them real dollars is a key point.

 

Notably all these players contracts run out next year, so it's a 1-year trial for all. Not a lot of commitment on either side.

 

This deal gives the Canucks some additional cap to re-structure their bottom-6.

 

I used to keep a habit of keeping up with all new CBA and contract rules, but with COVID I have been thrown for a loop and a bit out of date. Open to critique around cap things I may have missed.

[canuktravella]

id do it for cap saving but subban sucks

 

hughes hamonic

juolevi schmidt 

rathbone subban

edler 

 

cap dump  myers for a 3rd line center sure 

[PhillipBlunt]

Nope. This team doesn't need an overpaid, underperforming defenseman. He's not worth it at all.

[EternalCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Teemu Selänne said:

To Vancouver: PK Subban

 

To NJ: Loui Eriksson after his signing bonus is paid; Jake Virtanen; Roussel or Beagle at 50% off; a 3rd round pick

 

Why?

 

Total real dollar amount going to NJ: 1 + 3.4 + 1.5 = 5.9

Total real dollar amount coming to Vancouver = 8

 

Total cap hit going to NJ: 6 + 2.55 + 1.5 = 11

Total cap hit going to Vancouver: 9

 

Eriksson's cap hit is much larger than his dollar amount this coming year, which might make him moveable with the right deal. NJ and NJ fans do not want Subban on the team - and for fair reason, he's making 8 million a year and he's playing like a bottom pairing PP specialist... which ... is what the Canucks could play him as.

 

Right now the Canucks have Eriksson doing nothing. Subban is RHed, gritty, big defenseman. He's been bad in NJ but still has a lot of tools... I know he's too old to likely bounceback completely, but maybe one sheltered year is possible - for example keeping him AWAY from the penalty kill. He's still at about a .5 PPG pace these days, and could give the 2nd PP unit some fire power.

 

General analysis says NJ is trying to cute costs, even moving Kulikov's minor 1.15M pro-rated salary at the deadline (plus vets Zajac and Palmieri). Their owner is a billionaire who people think doesn't care much about hockey.

 

This deal saves their owner 2.1 million next year and Jake COULD still turn it around. Neither Jake or PK are going to turn it around in their current environments.

 

This NJ blog covers people general sentiment around Subban in NJ, but this quote sums it up pretty good:

 

And:

This deal keeps NJ above cap floor while saving them real dollars is a key point.

 

Notably all these players contracts run out next year, so it's a 1-year trial for all. Not a lot of commitment on either side.

 

This deal gives the Canucks some additional cap to re-structure their bottom-6.

 

I used to keep a habit of keeping up with all new CBA and contract rules, but with COVID I have been thrown for a loop and a bit out of date. Open to critique around cap things I may have missed.

I'm pretty sure the salary going to NJD is $10.05M instead of $11M.  It's still savings of just under $1M but there are two roster players going out (I'm not including Eriksson since he hasn't been a regular) so whomever fills the vacant roster spot must cost less than $1M (perhaps Lind?).  It does fill one hole at D however and is less painful at this point since next year is the final year of his contract.

 

It's doable if you believe Subban can at least play respectably in the Canucks' top 6 for one season.  It's relatively minor cap savings for a costly trade (3rd rd pick) and assumes Virtanen has basically no trade value (fair conclusion at this point but who knows?).  Whether this makes sense would also have to be compared with the Canucks options for clearing cap otherwise (e.g. Eriksson buyout would have cost the Aquilinis real $ but IIRC would save the Canucks $2M in cap space without losing a 3rd rd pick).

 

Personally I think the Canucks would probably rather buyout Eriksson than do a deal like this.  If NJD retained a bit of salary then maybe it becomes more attractive.

[the grinder]

1 hour ago, Teemu Selänne said:

To Vancouver: PK Subban

 

To NJ: Loui Eriksson after his signing bonus is paid; Jake Virtanen; Roussel or Beagle at 50% off; a 3rd round pick

 

Why?

 

Total real dollar amount going to NJ: 1 + 3.4 + 1.5 = 5.9

Total real dollar amount coming to Vancouver = 8

 

Total cap hit going to NJ: 6 + 2.55 + 1.5 = 11

Total cap hit going to Vancouver: 9

 

Eriksson's cap hit is much larger than his dollar amount this coming year, which might make him moveable with the right deal. NJ and NJ fans do not want Subban on the team - and for fair reason, he's making 8 million a year and he's playing like a bottom pairing PP specialist... which ... is what the Canucks could play him as.

 

Right now the Canucks have Eriksson doing nothing. Subban is RHed, gritty, big defenseman. He's been bad in NJ but still has a lot of tools... I know he's too old to likely bounceback completely, but maybe one sheltered year is possible - for example keeping him AWAY from the penalty kill. He's still at about a .5 PPG pace these days, and could give the 2nd PP unit some fire power.

 

General analysis says NJ is trying to cute costs, even moving Kulikov's minor 1.15M pro-rated salary at the deadline (plus vets Zajac and Palmieri). Their owner is a billionaire who people think doesn't care much about hockey.

 

This deal saves their owner 2.1 million next year and Jake COULD still turn it around. Neither Jake or PK are going to turn it around in their current environments.

 

This NJ blog covers people general sentiment around Subban in NJ, but this quote sums it up pretty good:

 

And:

This deal keeps NJ above cap floor while saving them real dollars is a key point.

 

Notably all these players contracts run out next year, so it's a 1-year trial for all. Not a lot of commitment on either side.

 

This deal gives the Canucks some additional cap to re-structure their bottom-6.

 

I used to keep a habit of keeping up with all new CBA and contract rules, but with COVID I have been thrown for a loop and a bit out of date. Open to critique around cap things I may have missed.

good lord  , we dont need pk subban  even for a year, its cheaper to hang on to loui , we need a center and  get trymakin signed

[YEGCanuck]

Thank you and good night.

[Provost]

If a deal ended up with us saving cap dollars and the main swap is Eriksson for Subban...sure.  In theory Subban is more useful than Eriksson so it works on that level.

I would wait until we are sure that Eriksson won't just retire after getting his bonus though.

Don't think we would want to get into something with a bunch of pieces and money retained on another contract.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Provost

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, Teemu Selänne said:

To Vancouver: PK Subban

 

To NJ: Loui Eriksson after his signing bonus is paid; Jake Virtanen; Roussel or Beagle at 50% off; a 3rd round pick

 

Why?

 

Total real dollar amount going to NJ: 1 + 3.4 + 1.5 = 5.9

Total real dollar amount coming to Vancouver = 8

 

Total cap hit going to NJ: 6 + 2.55 + 1.5 = 11

Total cap hit going to Vancouver: 9

 

Eriksson's cap hit is much larger than his dollar amount this coming year, which might make him moveable with the right deal. NJ and NJ fans do not want Subban on the team - and for fair reason, he's making 8 million a year and he's playing like a bottom pairing PP specialist... which ... is what the Canucks could play him as.

 

Right now the Canucks have Eriksson doing nothing. Subban is RHed, gritty, big defenseman. He's been bad in NJ but still has a lot of tools... I know he's too old to likely bounceback completely, but maybe one sheltered year is possible - for example keeping him AWAY from the penalty kill. He's still at about a .5 PPG pace these days, and could give the 2nd PP unit some fire power.

 

General analysis says NJ is trying to cute costs, even moving Kulikov's minor 1.15M pro-rated salary at the deadline (plus vets Zajac and Palmieri). Their owner is a billionaire who people think doesn't care much about hockey.

 

This deal saves their owner 2.1 million next year and Jake COULD still turn it around. Neither Jake or PK are going to turn it around in their current environments.

 

This NJ blog covers people general sentiment around Subban in NJ, but this quote sums it up pretty good:

 

And:

This deal keeps NJ above cap floor while saving them real dollars is a key point.

 

Notably all these players contracts run out next year, so it's a 1-year trial for all. Not a lot of commitment on either side.

 

This deal gives the Canucks some additional cap to re-structure their bottom-6.

 

I used to keep a habit of keeping up with all new CBA and contract rules, but with COVID I have been thrown for a loop and a bit out of date. Open to critique around cap things I may have missed.

Subban from 4 or 5 years ago? Great idea, all in.

 

Subban from the last couple of years? Hard pass, he's really struggling.

 

We are better staying to course, LE gets bought out this summer to save 2 million next season, Beagle will likely be on LTIR next season, Virtanen either shows next season why he's here, or likely doesn't get qualified. 

 

Roussel isn't as bad as everyone seems to think he is, he wasn't brought here for point production, and neither was Beagle.

 

In my mind, right now, Subban is about a 3 million per season contract in Today's flat cap.

[PhillipBlunt]

If you’re going to go for a older defenseman, Shea Weber would be a far better choice. He still is a factor every time he’s on the ice. Subban? Not so much. 

[Pears]

I think I’d be interested, just depends which version of Subban we’d get. 

51 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Subban from 4 or 5 years ago? Great idea, all in.

 

Subban from the last couple of years? Hard pass, he's really struggling.

 

We are better staying to course, LE gets bought out this summer to save 2 million next season, Beagle will likely be on LTIR next season, Virtanen either shows next season why he's here, or likely doesn't get qualified. 

 

Roussel isn't as bad as everyone seems to think he is, he wasn't brought here for point production, and neither was Beagle.

 

In my mind, right now, Subban is about a 3 million per season contract in Today's flat cap.

Well to be fair, there aren’t many players who don’t struggle on the Devils. 

 

21 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If you’re going to go for a older defenseman, Shea Weber would be a far better choice. He still is a factor every time he’s on the ice. Subban? Not so much. 

I would to, but what reason would Montreal have to trade him?

[D-Money]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If you’re going to go for a older defenseman, Shea Weber would be a far better choice. He still is a factor every time he’s on the ice. Subban? Not so much. 

Weber isn't going to be available either. Certainly not for a bag of crap.

 

If NJ really wanted to dump some cash, I'd do Roussel and Eriksson for Subban. Equal cap going in and out, Devils will save $1.1M in dollars, even more if they buy one or both out. But think we'd get more utility out of Subban in a contract year. He's got 14 even strength points - only 2 less than Hughes. NJ is probably overplaying him at over 22:00 per night.

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, Pears said:

I think I’d be interested, just depends which version of Subban we’d get. 

Well to be fair, there aren’t many players who don’t struggle on the Devils. 

 

I would to, but what reason would Montreal have to trade him?

Hypothetically 

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Weber isn't going to be available either. Certainly not for a bag of crap.

 

If NJ really wanted to dump some cash, I'd do Roussel and Eriksson for Subban. Equal cap going in and out, Devils will save $1.1M in dollars, even more if they buy one or both out. But think we'd get more utility out of Subban in a contract year. He's got 14 even strength points - only 2 less than Hughes. NJ is probably overplaying him at over 22:00 per night.

Hypothetically. 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Nope. This team doesn't need an overpaid, underperforming defenseman. He's not worth it at all.

Newsflash. 

Subban has 5 goals, 14 assists and -16. On a crap NJ team. 

Overpaid? Sure. 

Underperforming, ok also sure.

But he's not quite as bad as you make out. 

At least he's playing unlike Eriksson. And Eriksson hasn't had over 19 points since 2019. And he's a forward!

Now if we can convince NJ to take part of his salary, even $2.5 million per year.

 

But the reality is we're probably going to go with a very young defence next year. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Ghostsof1915

[philtbc829]

Nope....he is past his prime.....not worth it

[PhillipBlunt]

18 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Newsflash. 

Subban has 5 goals, 14 assists and -16. On a crap NJ team. 

Overpaid? Sure. 

Underperforming, ok also sure.

But he's not quite as bad as you make out. 

At least he's playing unlike Eriksson. And Eriksson hasn't had over 19 points since 2019. And he's a forward!

Now if we can convince NJ to take part of his salary, even $2.5 million per year.

 

But the reality is we're probably going to go with a very young defence next year. 

That’s what I want to see.
 

Subban was one of the most dynamic defenders at one time in the NHL, but he’s not anymore. I’m sure a real contender could use him. I’m shocked that Dubas didn’t try to make a play for him. He’d help their defense out innumerably. Vancouver is a ways away and needs more youth. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If you’re going to go for a older defenseman, Shea Weber would be a far better choice. He still is a factor every time he’s on the ice. Subban? Not so much. 

sure but Lindsey really likes Whistler, so you know what they say, happy wife happy life. Could be the motivator he needs. 

[Rabbit]

PK does match the core of Canucks.

We don't need to help NJ to unload their bad contract.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

If a deal ended up with us saving cap dollars and the main swap is Eriksson for Subban...sure.  In theory Subban is more useful than Eriksson so it works on that level.

I would wait until we are sure that Eriksson won't just retire after getting his bonus though.

Don't think we would want to get into something with a bunch of pieces and money retained on another contract.

 

For sure if there's any inkling that Eriksson will GTOF this deal makes no sense

 

But like others and yourself have mentioned, Subban in a contract year, in a different environment, sheltered TOI, would likely be more useful than Eriksson + one of Roussel or Beagle or even Virt at this point. Gives the Canucks a bit more flexibility contract and roster spot wise too.

 

The deal might not have the exact right players in it but I feel like something in this realm could benefit both teams.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

Weber isn't going to be available either. Certainly not for a bag of crap.

 

If NJ really wanted to dump some cash, I'd do Roussel and Eriksson for Subban. Equal cap going in and out, Devils will save $1.1M in dollars, even more if they buy one or both out. But think we'd get more utility out of Subban in a contract year. He's got 14 even strength points - only 2 less than Hughes. NJ is probably overplaying him at over 22:00 per night.

I agree with this. Subban is playing poorly but he's also no longer fit for this type of role despite what his contract would seem to dictate. He's still PKing for 1:30 per night, and he shouldn't be anywhere near a penalty kill at this point.

 

Playing for a contract, on a better team, one-last shot type of thing. Canucks desperately need a 2nd power play unit as well. I'd be happy with a Roussel or Beagle and Eriksson straight across if that was on the table too. PK Subban is being overplayed, whereas Eriksson isn't even playing.

 

and yes, defensemen like Weber aren't exactly extractable