what grade (1 to 10) would you give Travis Green?

[Honky Cat]

I dont know how legit this guy is, but

 

[DeNiro]

23 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

I dont know how legit this guy is, but

 

Good.

 

This team should not be bringing back Green. We are in the bottom third of the league for almost every important metric.

 

If it weren’t for a fluke playoff run in a year we likely wouldn’t have made the playoffs he would have already been canned.

 

We need a coach more like DJ smith that knows how to integrate lots of young players into the lineup and roll four lines.

 

Tired of seeing a passive system that relies on our goalies standing on their heads and increases the chance of injuries.

 

Go with Cull for a season or two until a coach we actually want becomes available.

[Toyotasfan]

I rate Tortorella much higher than Green. Not everyone buys into what Torts demands and he’s totally unhinged , but he is a Stanley cup winner and Travis Green will never know what that’s like.

[KelownaCanucksFan]

Green 7-8, his assistants -5

[Shirotashi]

Its really hard for us peons to quantify something like coaching as we dont see alot of coaching 

on our best day tbh. Most "coaching" takes place off the ice I think. 

 

But based on what little we have to work with I would give him a 8/10. 

• He very rarely throws the team under the bus, he is a postive person.
• He is good at knowing when our attack is too predictable.
• He CAN make changes on the fly he does it all the time with our lines.
• I think he is good with the players on a personal level.
• I dont question his passion, he grew up in BC and you can tell him and JB want it.

[189lb enforcers?]

4.something; less than average. 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, KelownaCanucksFan said:

Green 7-8, his assistants -5

Interesting.

What does TG actually do that would make you think that?  You are suggesting he is in the top 20% of coaches, or something like top 6 in the NHL. 

 

Honest, non-facetious question, what would you rate your knowledge of what an NHL HC is actually responsible for, as being?  

Other than an obvious few tasks, how well do you, or any one reading, actually know what the HC actually does? 
 

To rate the HC, especially rate the guy in the top in the league, he must tick a lot of *boxes.  I’d like someone to list them. Maybe not yourself, but it would be interesting to have to put forth a bit of logic as to showcase how well opinions are informed in such a thread/question.  

 

What is TG actually good at? (Better than other HCs?) 

I can’t think of a single thing. No bias there, I just can’t. 

[Gawdzukes]

11, you guys are the douches people pick up in rec leagues because they're douches, but never learn they're douches, but play a douche role.

 

Congrats Bobby and Joey! Brain dead f&3ks.

[Darkstar]

1 out of 10. 

[canuck2288]

2 and thats only for attendance 

 

pathetic coach with pathetic assistants that he is responsible for 

[Beefcake]

a 6 for greener

Edited May 1, 2021 by Beefcake

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Interesting.

What does TG actually do that would make you think that?  You are suggesting he is in the top 20% of coaches, or something like top 6 in the NHL. 

 

Honest, non-facetious question, what would you rate your knowledge of what an NHL HC is actually responsible for, as being?  

Other than an obvious few tasks, how well do you, or any one reading, actually know what the HC actually does? 
 

To rate the HC, especially rate the guy in the top in the league, he must tick a lot of *boxes.  I’d like someone to list them. Maybe not yourself, but it would be interesting to have to put forth a bit of logic as to showcase how well opinions are informed in such a thread/question.  

 

What is TG actually good at? (Better than other HCs?) 

I can’t think of a single thing. No bias there, I just can’t. 

Nobody really can except maybe the other head coaches/GM's in the league.   Last year he garnered some votes for the Adams.   To start this year was also considered by NHL.com and THN as a front runner to win it this season.   Guess they were wrong.   AV's team had some of the worst special teams in the league and got eliminated by the Devils last night, and have veteran team with youth at every key spot..Good coaches have bad seasons. it happens.   

 

This team has too much wasted cap and not enough quality vets to really do much this year, missing the playoffs was more likely then making them from the start.   Schmidt, Myers and Miller helped.   One thing TG is good at is giving the young players a chance to learn and make mistakes, something veteran coaches aren't usually that keen(an).    Kakko and Lafrenniere...2nd and 1st overall.   AV with Patrick (most felt he was the safer pick over Hirschier)...it's undeniable he's got results from his youth.   Putting EP in the middle and on the first line right away, same with QHs and the PP, BB moved up to the first unit after the first dozen or so games and our PP went from 23rd to 9th.    Creating a line of Pearson Horvat and LE (yikes!), for whatever reason it worked better then it should have.   

 

Don't think he's godlike, and don't think his tactical game is even close to the best i've seen the last 30 plus years (any team).   Hitchcock, Bowman level.   Feel he's more of a players coach like Quin was, but for sure not at the same level either.   And that he's very cerebral - that i learned by doing my research into him, he's a very, very smart guy, and was doing things  in the AHL before they were a thing (tabulating individual zone entries and exits by hand with his staff).   So must have a tactical side too.   More then anything it's what his peers think that matter to me, what do i know lol, and they seem to think he belongs and have ranked him decently so far.  I think he's above average, because so far given the injuries and the actual rosters he's had to work with, each year they do a little-a lot  better then predicted - up to this season.    This season is too weird to judge.   His best record is without EP go figure - until covid.    The rest of the year Bowman wouldn't make a lick of difference if the players can't do it.    

 

Edit:  On this season.  THN had us 5th.  Not sure i read anywhere that we'd be higher then 4, the Hockey figured 4.  The family members felt that a down year was likely as soon as we got the schedule/alignment, same as the "pro's".   Looks like that's going to happen for sure.   Changing coaches i think serves a purpose, if a veteran team is underachieving, or a team of any kind has lost the room.   Occasionally a change just for the sake of change is worth it too.   We are getting close to the latter.    

 

Edit:  On his coaching style.   Authoratarian (Keenan, Torts), Players  (Quin, Robinson, McLean), Tactical (Bowman, Hitchcock) 

 

used to be the basic  model's  i grew up with and it was a spectrum and coaches could be all three at once but usually had a dominant facet.   Bowman was not a players coach really, but was the other things for sure.   Players loved Quin because he has their backs (something TG does all the time too, a deflector shield for stupid media questions...doesn't really throw anyone under the bus other then "it wasn't his best game " etc.)  Also yells at them so has some disciplinarian in him too.   Hitchcock was both a tactical and a d!ck to play for until way later in his career - only baby bombers and gen x react well to that style (see Torts lol - love the guy but wow every team he's been on ... players have revolted eventually ... except ours but for sure it would have come).  

 

Now they use autocratic, democratic, and holistic.    Because that's how they've had to adapt to gen z and mellinials who grew up winning trophies for showing up.  Can't teach old dogs new tricks ... any of the old coaches that didn't adapt have left the league.   Hitchcock wrote a long article about how he had to lay off the hard ass stuff and become a friend and a consouler to deal with the next generation of players to stay in the league.   Torts has mellowed a lot but you can't change a tigers stripes completely.    Babcock ... lol well he will be back but he sure blew it in TO with his motivational tactics didn't he?    

 

Motivation and managing lines/minutes are the key jobs a coach can do really.    Some in game stuff but not that much.   Preparation too, making sure the teams on the same page, a system etc.     Personally my favourite coach is a players coach.   Quin.   TG would have to come close to winning a cup and be in the league a decade before he'd command that type of respect.    But he's done better then i thought he'd do, same as JB.    Change for the sake of change for sure is coming if nothing is achieved soon.   Once that cap is freed up there won't be any excuses anymore, the depth is finally almost there, the core will be entering their early primes, and there should be two more Schmidt/Myers/Miller/TT types to carry the mail. 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by IBatch

[vannuck59]

I want to know what the frack Green has to do with this team! Jim Benning is the moron that has put this team together so stop with the Green bashing he is better then some worse than others. Dim Jim is the worst GM ever , we went from a playoff contender to potentially last place in 1 year. Jim is cooking what, rotten soup if Benning  is not replaced we will see another 10 years of failure  . 

[Bo fan]

6 - 6.5

Personally I think he has done a great job developing our young players

I sometimes don't like his line up calls but he knows better then I what is happening in the group

[-DLC-]

7

 

But I'm not really qualified to assess because, for me, so much depends on how the players view/receive him as coach.   If they're on board, I'm on board.  If they're not....this mark goes down to a 4-5.

 

I like his demeanour and ability to not get too rattled by much (in particular, the media).  I don't like his lack of use of his time outs at times.    

[oldnews]

I'm a student of the game at best.

I have played a ton of sports in my life - some at quite a high level - and to some extent know and understand a fair deal about sports systems.

 

But still - I don't pretend to 'grade' someone with a P.H.D. and a lifetime of experience in the game, at the highest levels.

 

Most people here couldn't name a single system Green employs.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to re-sign him.  I love the job he's done and the results he's gotten - in context.

[deus.ex.makina]

Green 6

Brown 2

Beaumgartner 4 

[BPA]

5/10.

 

He's OK.  Gives minutes to the stars.  Sometimes too much to QH but probably because he hopes Huggy can do something to get the team back in the game.  The PP absolutely sucks while the PK is decent.  He's the head coach so that's on him. 

 

I'd get rid of the assistants except Ian Clark.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Nobody really can except maybe the other head coaches/GM's in the league.   Last year he garnered some votes for the Adams.   To start this year was also considered by NHL.com and THN as a front runner to win it this season.   Guess they were wrong.   AV's team had some of the worst special teams in the league and got eliminated by the Devils last night, and have veteran team with youth at every key spot..Good coaches have bad seasons. it happens.   

 

This team has too much wasted cap and not enough quality vets to really do much this year, missing the playoffs was more likely then making them from the start.   Schmidt, Myers and Miller helped.   One thing TG is good at is giving the young players a chance to learn and make mistakes, something veteran coaches aren't usually that keen(an).    Kakko and Lafrenniere...2nd and 1st overall.   AV with Patrick (most felt he was the safer pick over Hirschier)...it's undeniable he's got results from his youth.   Putting EP in the middle and on the first line right away, same with QHs and the PP, BB moved up to the first unit after the first dozen or so games and our PP went from 23rd to 9th.    Creating a line of Pearson Horvat and LE (yikes!), for whatever reason it worked better then it should have.   

 

Don't think he's godlike, and don't think his tactical game is even close to the best i've seen the last 30 plus years (any team).   Hitchcock, Bowman level.   Feel he's more of a players coach like Quin was, but for sure not at the same level either.   And that he's very cerebral - that i learned by doing my research into him, he's a very, very smart guy, and was doing things  in the AHL before they were a thing (tabulating individual zone entries and exits by hand with his staff).   So must have a tactical side too.   More then anything it's what his peers think that matter to me, what do i know lol, and they seem to think he belongs and have ranked him decently so far.  I think he's above average, because so far given the injuries and the actual rosters he's had to work with, each year they do a little-a lot  better then predicted - up to this season.    This season is too weird to judge.   His best record is without EP go figure - until covid.    The rest of the year Bowman wouldn't make a lick of difference if the players can't do it.    

 

Edit:  On this season.  THN had us 5th.  Not sure i read anywhere that we'd be higher then 4, the Hockey figured 4.  The family members felt that a down year was likely as soon as we got the schedule/alignment, same as the "pro's".   Looks like that's going to happen for sure.   Changing coaches i think serves a purpose, if a veteran team is underachieving, or a team of any kind has lost the room.   Occasionally a change just for the sake of change is worth it too.   We are getting close to the latter.    

 

Edit:  On his coaching style.   Authoratarian (Keenan, Torts), Players  (Quin, Robinson, McLean), Tactical (Bowman, Hitchcock) 

 

used to be the basic  model's  i grew up with and it was a spectrum and coaches could be all three at once but usually had a dominant facet.   Bowman was not a players coach really, but was the other things for sure.   Players loved Quin because he has their backs (something TG does all the time too, a deflector shield for stupid media questions...doesn't really throw anyone under the bus other then "it wasn't his best game " etc.)  Also yells at them so has some disciplinarian in him too.   Hitchcock was both a tactical and a d!ck to play for until way later in his career - only baby bombers and gen x react well to that style (see Torts lol - love the guy but wow every team he's been on ... players have revolted eventually ... except ours but for sure it would have come).  

 

Now they use autocratic, democratic, and holistic.    Because that's how they've had to adapt to gen z and mellinials who grew up winning trophies for showing up.  Can't teach old dogs new tricks ... any of the old coaches that didn't adapt have left the league.   Hitchcock wrote a long article about how he had to lay off the hard ass stuff and become a friend and a consouler to deal with the next generation of players to stay in the league.   Torts has mellowed a lot but you can't change a tigers stripes completely.    Babcock ... lol well he will be back but he sure blew it in TO with his motivational tactics didn't he?    

 

Motivation and managing lines/minutes are the key jobs a coach can do really.    Some in game stuff but not that much.   Preparation too, making sure the teams on the same page, a system etc.     Personally my favourite coach is a players coach.   Quin.   TG would have to come close to winning a cup and be in the league a decade before he'd command that type of respect.    But he's done better then i thought he'd do, same as JB.    Change for the sake of change for sure is coming if nothing is achieved soon.   Once that cap is freed up there won't be any excuses anymore, the depth is finally almost there, the core will be entering their early primes, and there should be two more Schmidt/Myers/Miller/TT types to carry the mail. 

 

 

Always a good read/post from you, sir. 

Maybe you responded already in the thread to rate the job TG has done as HC, I haven’t seen it yet, so I’m curious what you’d say.
 

Ultimately, I am not interested in what posters think on here, but rather how they think, which is why I made the post to which you responded. As you will see in the thread, there is almost zero, as in an embarrassingly big nothing of collective knowledge, being posted in here in regards to an informed assessment of the HC duties.  So far, this is what’s here:
 

“developing young players”

”timeouts” 

“line combinations”

 

 

I don’t know bud, does that strike you as a “knowledgeable fanbase/community”?  
 

We used to be here.  But then came the “hate” purge.  We rounded up those critical posters and minus’d them into oblivion, then dog-piled the rest, which IMO was seemingly an administrative function.  Pretty tough to prove that now, but look around.  Where are those posters today?  Instead, today, we have our resident super-homers setting the tone like a cartoonish mascot or something.  The seriousness which used to be here to balance that part out is gone.  So threads like these are pretty dry.  I’m not trying to set myself up as some hero mind here, not at all. I just wish we had a better mixture of posters who knew what they were saying because they did it themselves, or at least have some relevant exposure, rather than these emotional or baseline arguments.
 

Not too long ago here there were ‘joke threads’ to mock ourselves named things like “ I like Pyatt because he has pretty eyes”.  I miss that level of acknowledgment of how serious some posters were when we could openly mock uniformed opinions.  Today, IMO, we are doing the opposite. 
 

We’ve seen a culture shift on this site in the past oh maybe 7 years or so, which resulted in a purge of unpopular opinions and posters who used to frequent these forums who were experienced hockey people and ex professionals.  It often feels like we’ve replaced that knowledgeable with your average, never played, never coached, never anything posters who are here to cheer for the Canucks more than they are to discuss them, well, with any seriousness anyways.  
 

Fine, but the balance is gone and perhaps we should consider how the community is perceived by viewers from wherever who should quickly discern that this is a place to cheer, not to be serious.  IMO, it’s a shame and maybe some new moderators could entice back some of those who’ve been minused away, etc. For a few years here, it’s been awful, but in the past few months it’s seems to be less dog-piling on serious, critical posts of the team, mostly at the management of it, such as this thread attempts to do. 
 

Hate, quite the word to describe the way a fellow die hard fan feels towards their team, has been supported here so much now that we have a community vernacular which labels critical thought as hate. Incredible.  This is how far the knowledge-pendulum has swung over to the side of whatever the puck it is in here now.  
 

Sign-of-the-times, I know, but wow, I think we need some new representation here, from those who’d actually post something insightful for us goons to read in a post meant to describe why they think Greener is a good HC. Line combos?   
 

Bring back the self-hating trolls and whatever else the site’s chased away in its attempt to rid itself of “negativity” before CDC flips over on its side from being so ridiculously unbalanced these days (though it’s just stating to improve). 
 

Had there been even just a few posts in this thread which spoke to an assessment of the HC of the Canucks, I’d been satisfied and not need to ask the obvious question; what does TG do well as HC? By what metric? I think that’s a tough assignment.  It’s probably much easier to tackle his weaknesses. 
 

I just can’t think of anything at all that he does better than any other HC. If I do, I’ll post it. I hope someone does, and backs it up, so I can learn something, which is what first got me addicted to coming on here, way back. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by 189lb enforcers?

[189lb enforcers?]

52 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm a student of the game at best.

I have played a ton of sports in my life - some at quite a high level - and to some extent know and understand a fair deal about sports systems.

 

But still - I don't pretend to 'grade' someone with a P.H.D. and a lifetime of experience in the game, at the highest levels.

 

Most people here couldn't name a single system Green employs.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to re-sign him.  I love the job he's done and the results he's gotten - in context.

You are amongst those 3 posters which I’d considered when I made a nearly identical post.