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[Report] Jake Virtanen placed on leave by the Canucks following sexual misconduct allegation

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3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Some of your points are fairly accurate, but the exception is when we have the advantage of retrospect.  Let's start from the beginning...

 

1. In almost all the mock drafts at the time, Jake was considered a top 10 pick.  Being a hometown boy, I wonder how much Aqua wanted the power forward, hometown boy.  Money in the bank.

2. Ericksson's term was too long, but it wasn't a bad signing, given the management were thinking re-tool. He was coming off a 30g season and had played very well with the Sedins in the WC. In retrospect even 4.5x4yrs would have been too much.

3. Nobody could foresee Olli's injuries that have altered his development path. I doubt there are many scouts that though Ketchup would be the player he is now.  Even still, without the injuries, Olli would probably have made it into the NHL a couple of years ago.

4. Erik Gudbranson -hard to argue with that, but I sure recall a lot of folks (including myself) very happy about getting a big guy who would create a safe working environment.

5.  JB didn't draft Shinkaruk, but acquiring Grandlund was a soft plus when you consider the difference in NHL game numbers each played.

6. When Sutter's healthy he plays his role effectively.  Too bad he spends so much time in sick bay.

7. Beagle and Roussel are a bit overpaid and have an extra year term.  Roussel is injured alot.

8.  Tyler Myers plays huge minutes and can be a force on the blue line. The term is too long and he's a bit overpaid.

9. Edler is overpaid, mostly because of the NMC and 1yr term.  Imo, he is underrated by Nuck fans.  He is always missed by the team when he's not in the lineup. Huge minutes and a terrific shot blocker.

10. With a huge salary cap, I wasn't expecting much in UFA, although losing Tofolli was really bad.  Worse was JBs explanation about 'running out of time.'  On the other hand, he placed his bet on Demko, Schmidt and Hamonic and won.

11 & 12. I won't respond to as I really don't know how he communicates with the players and staff.

13. Sam Gagner was definitely overpaid, but at least only lasted one season.

14. Ferland would have been great, but for the injuries. I have no idea how that deal transpired, or who gave his medical opinion on Ferland's head injuries.  Regardless, he's only played 14 games for the Canucks and his salary is LTIR, so isn't a direct cap hit.

15. Willie...uhg.  No comment.

Word....

But I think he has had his shot....time to shuffle him sideways or out and let another GM have a go....but definitely #FIREGREEN and Brown and Baumer.....

 

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So BIG TRAM has decided to stay away from the dumpster fire that is the Canucks at the moment....shame....No POD as well....time to bring others in for an audition then...would love to have a look at Woo

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22 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

Anyone can type "innocent until proven guilty" but really meaning it, is a different thing. Based on your post, it clearly shows you have a biased stance already, and is merely typing that just to "sound" unbiased. 

Just because I have an opinion on the the likelihood of him being guilty doesn't mean I have condemned him. I really hope these claims are false.

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8 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

 

Trash sports media coverage by Patrick Johnson from The Province. Disagree with most of what he stated.
 

Just terrible   :picard:

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1 hour ago, philtbc829 said:

So BIG TRAM has decided to stay away from the dumpster fire that is the Canucks at the moment....shame....No POD as well....time to bring others in for an audition then...would love to have a look at Woo

Source?

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6 hours ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

If he's exonerated, he'll want a fresh mental start so regardless how this turns out, we've probably just watched Jake's last game as a Canuck. :mellow:

Good

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33 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Trash sports media coverage by Patrick Johnson from The Province. Disagree with most of what he stated.
 

Just terrible   :picard:

Why it’s not the coaches job

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12 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

I don't see this as being very accurate.

 

1. Drafting Jake over other, more talented players.

2. Signing Loui Eriksson to a ridiculous contract.

3. Drafting Olli Juolevi over Matthew Tkachuk.

4. Trading for Erik Gudbranson and overpaying for him.

5. Hunter Shinkaruk

6.Signing Brandon Sutter as a corner stone player.

7. Overpaying for Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel.

8. Signing Tyler Myers to another ridiculous contract.

9. Overpaying Alex Edler.

10. Last offseason's brutal offseason, losing Toffoli for nothing.

11. Consistent lack of clear direction and actually saying he's taking things day by day which definitely shows in his inconsistent decisions.

12. Lack of communication with his players to let them know the plan moving forward.

13. Sam Gagne.

14. Michael Ferland.

15. Willie Desjardins.

 

This is a tough one, these are pretty big statements that JB-haters tend to flag up. I've tried to remain as neutral and objective as possible since JB was hired, some of these moves had to be made, others (I agree with you) are terrible so thought I'd dissect them a bit:

 

1) Absolutely, I raged when he picked JV, when everyone on these boards called Nylander a big girl and JV would beat him up in the playoffs. Biggest "I told you so",  but that aside, this wasn't a drafting problem as much as it was a "need" problem. JB wanted toughness and speed and he thought our team needed that. He was right, but JV wasn't the answer, and I believe you shouldn't waste your top picks on size, but on skill. You can get size in the later rounds but you can't draft high-end skill. JB has learnt his mistake, picking Juolevi, Hughes and Pettersson with his later high picks instead of big tough guys, and look how it's paid off.

 

2) That Eriksson deal was awful, yes, but it was the first at the time of a bunch of similar deals (I think David Clarkson etc. were similar sort of problems going on around then). No doubt it was a mistake but at the time, look at LE's numbers - he was a big, strong, physical 2-way forward scoring 30 goals on 2 different teams, and rightly-so deserved the money. In JB's fairness, it was the only stupid big UFA signing he ever made after that. Just about every team has done something similar in the last 5-10 years, JB isn't the only one to be enticed but again it comes from wanting that speedy strong, physical forward which has let him down.

 

3) At the time, we needed a defenceman and the Virtanen pick plays into this. If we had taken a defenceman (say Haydn Fleury) then surely JB would have taken Tkachuk, but at the time our defensive prospect pool was empty. I still stand by this decision, Juolevi will be of similar worth if not more than Tkachuk. Yes, Tkachuk is that physical scoring player JB clearly wanted (see above), but Juolevi is basically Edler's replacement and you can't beat that value. A top-4, if not top-2 all-around defenceman who can put up 30-40 points and play well on the PK is far more valuable than a top-6 scoring winger who can play physically, and Juolevi is still yet to prove that so I stand by this pick as a win or at least a draw.

 

4) Again, at the time, we were desperate for defencemen and I certainly wouldn't say Gudbranson was a complete failure. Our team was absolute garbage back then, he was paired with Hutton for most of the time too. Look at Guddy thrive in Pittsburgh again now - he's not a bad player, he was just playing on some dreadful defensive structures. One thing you failed to omit is that we got Tanner Pearson out of him, so basically McCann + 2nd for Pearson + 6th isn't as bad as it all sounds. Sure, it would have been nice to get a defenceman elsewhere but top-4 tough defencemen don't grow on trees and we desperately needed one back then to stabilise our D.

 

5) Agreed, Shinkaruk wasn't the right pick (as Shea Theodore goes a couple of picks later) but not every late-1st round pick pans out to be a superstar. We got Horvat early on, a lot of high-end talent went in the first 15 picks and then a lot of average players after that. I wouldn't exactly blame JB for taking Shinkaruk when there were probably only a couple of decent NHL players in the late 1st round anyway, it's the high picks you don't want to mess up.

 

6) Brandon Sutter is 100% a cornerstone player and anyone who wants him traded or gone doesn't quite understand all the little things about a hockey team. Sutter kills penalties, wins faceoffs, shuts down opposing team's top offensive lines and is a leader on this team. He is worth every penny and more. Any team would have him, he's older now but still one of the best 3rd line centers in the league and when he and Beagle were injured you saw our team just nose-dive down the standings. Not going to go into too much discussion here, anyone who thinks he should be gone or never taken - who do we replace him with? We tried Gaudette for a bit, terrible mistake defensively. We have no decent 2-way center in our prospect pool who can fill Sutter and Beagle's hard minutes, and waiver-wire pickups like Boyd are simply band-aid fixes until JB sorts something more permanent out. 

 

7) Beagle and Roussel are interesting - I completely agree with the Beagle signing because you win games and playoffs with depth down the middle, and Beagle was playing around 10-15 minutes a night for us as a solid center, basically a more defensive-minded Sutter. I love JB's importance at this role because it's right, look at any Cup winning team and they have experience, grit and defensive-awareness down the middle, and we went into this season with 3 guys like this (arguably 4 if Miller sorted his stuff out this year defensively). Beagle's worth the money and deserved it after winning a Cup. As for Roussel, I never wanted this either, and again, (see above), this is JB putting too much stock and value into "gritty, tough guys". I don't think we should be wasting UFA money or high picks on stupid players like Virtanen and Roussel who have no offensive IQ but are just "tough". Lucic kicked off this conversation years ago and this is where it's gotten us, but now look who's won the Cup the last few years since Boston - highly-skilled teams. You get these players through 1M UFA contracts or 3-5th round picks at the best, don't go blowing money like this, I agree.

 

8) Myers was signed for 6M in a pre-Covid world which is just simply what you have to pay for a top-6 forward or top-4 defenceman nowadays, I don't know what world people think they're in where you get a Sergachev-type player for 3-4M. The only way you get top/star defencemen on a decent contract is if you draft them and sign them yourselves. Yes, the UFA bumps these numbers up a bit, but that's what you get for not putting in the hard development years yourself. Myers has been an absolute stud for this team and people don't see it for some silly reason - he's putting up points, playing well defensively on a rubbish defensive system and killing penalties - what more do you want for 6M, you want him to win a Norris? People who argue that Sutter and Myers are bad players need to go watch some Ottawa games, these guys aren't the problem, and mark my word if they were moved to another team they would have instant "personal" success.

 

9)  Overpaying Edler...Edler is the best defenceman this franchise has, and possibly will, ever see for a very long time, and he's on what, a 6M contract like Myers - again taken into account that pre-Covid defencemen were going for much more and the cap was rising much higher. A 22 minute defenceman who plays top-pairing minutes against the best lines, top PK minutes and still was putting up 30 point-pace is well worth 6M. Take a look around the league at other top-4, let alone top-2 defencemen and see what they're making. Unless they're still on an ELC no-one's getting less than 5-6M anymore.

 

10) I agree, last off-season was difficult to watch as a superficial fan, but I've gone into this many times - Tanev had to go (too much money and term), Markstrom had to go (or we lose Demko) and Toffoli was a bit of a mess. Tanev and Marky started the season with the Flames strong and now they're really bombing which I'm gland to see because theoretically this is the best they'll be for the rest of their contract so that's a big win in my books for JB. As for Toffoli, of course that stings, but the reason he did it is because we had offensive players coming off good years (namely Virtanen and Gaudette) and he trusted that the offence Toff provided would be replaced by them (and young guys like Lind/Podz/Hogs eventually). He wasn't wrong, Hoglander has certainly come to the fore-front and Pearson is scoring again, but it's nowhere near what Toffoli was bringing. Toffoli is a superstar scorer had for 4M but JB wanted to trust the kids a bit more and that was his mistake for me, and we're seeing it first hand - he's already jumped ship on Gaudette (who is already proving him wrong) and Virtanen has been an absolute disaster his entire career. This is one fault of JB - picking the kids over Toffoli, but I can see why he did it, if he signed Toffoli we would have had to move some money around instantly, and Montreal pounced all over him. Is it really a mistake though, because Brock is scoring at a much higher rate, Hoglander is here, so arguably the production drop off isn't too much, and we're not losing games all season because we're not scoring, but rather can't defend - something Toffoli wouldn't have helped with...

 

11 and 12) Not really going to address these, no GM ever really shows their cards or communicates things well to the media and public but who knows what's going on behind closed doors with the coaches, management and players so who are we to comment on this...

 

13) Clutching at straws if you're taking Sam Gagne as a target point - he was a cheap pick up, scored 30 points for us and killed some penalties, not a super-star but not a terrible player, time to drop expectations but he gave us what we expected and paid for him.

 

14) Ferland was exactly again what JB wants (see above again) - a tough gritty top-6 winger, and at 4M that was a bargain at the time. Of course he gets injured and never really plays for us but that's not exactly a problem or waste of money/cap, he's just been on LTIR the whole time, so how is this a "failure" as such, it's basically a wash.

 

15) Obviously Willie was terrible and this is one thing I think JB needs to step away from eventually - taking rookie AHL coaches and putting all the trust in the world into them. Willie was dreadful, no doubt about it, and Green is a very average NHL coach to be fair, but he's been trusted with everything by JB and ownership. I think JB needs to take a long, hard look at how our players peaked and are declining with this coaching staff and make some changes not just to Green but Baumer especially because we've got some great players in their prime who are looking out of position and making mistakes far too often. The playoffs last year against Minnesota and St. Louis was absolute brilliant coaching and execution, we dominated the Cup winners, then got fatigued in Vegas and couldn't execute. The start and majority of this season, we kept trying to force that Green-mentality but weren't executing and were just getting victimized. Green's book is out, people know how to expose his system and they have done it all season long, and he's not able to adjust or change it, or get the players to execute. Whatever the problem, IMO it's with coaching, and yes, finally JB has to pull the trigger. They seem to love Green though, he's a real player's coach who has done a great job with the kids, but it's time to take the next step (just like Quinneville in Florida), and I think Green will get 30-40 more NHL games before that decision will be made. If we're not in a playoff position half-way through next season, JB has to make the move and change coaches or the onus falls on him rather than the coaching staff.

 

 

All these aside, no one commends JB for the brilliant moves he's made - his great drafting, taking Pettersson when everyone (myself included) condemned him, Hughes over other players and the Miller trade to give us proper star quality out of the blue. Every Canucks GM has had difficulties with goalie changeover and JB has handled this one better than the others (Demko over Marky, find one fan who disagrees with his moves here). The Schmidt deal as well was highway robbery and everyone instantly became a Schmidt-fan (before the season started)...

 

TL;DR - I think JB has done more good than harm, and all the problems that have arisen tend to be from wanting to waste high picks or big UFA money on TOUGHNESS and GRIT, especially in our top-6 but also on the blueline. He kept that trend going with Podz so let's hope he's not just another Virtanen (doubtful so far) but  on the whole, he needs to learn to try and use later picks and cheaper pickups (eg. waivers, 1M UFAs) for those guys and spend your high value (top-5 picks, 5-6M UFAs) on skill and hockey IQ because times are changing - big tough Bruins teams don't win Cups anymore, skilled offensive units like Tampa do. You need offensive skill, a good defensive structure and a star goalie to win championships right now, and as an aside, those players need to be physically tough to endure the playoffs - NOT the other way around (tough guys who can learn how to score goals and defend well). I hope this Virtanen mess has taught JB that but we'll see how he handles some tricky situation in the next few weeks with what he does with JV but also the big Petey/Hughes re-signings and then another monster top-5 draft pick.

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Posted (edited)

if Jake is in fact found guilty after he's moved at seasons end to an American team, is he able to serve out his sentence in US Prisons?  Just asking......

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there is a case for contract termination if he's found guilty.  He is done as a Canuck regardless.

 

We should have taken the highest offer that was offered to Benning for Virtanen earlier.  Jim Benning dropping the ball again.  

 

gg. 

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7 hours ago, grandmaster said:

Source?

He re signed in Russia. A little google search goes a long way. 

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3 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

if Jake is in fact found guilty after he's moved at seasons end to an American team, is he able to serve out his sentence in US Prisons?  Just asking......

If indeed Jake Virtanen is guilty ... I am pretty sure no NHL team will want to accept him. 

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4 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

if Jake is in fact found guilty after he's moved at seasons end to an American team, is he able to serve out his sentence in US Prisons?  Just asking......

r u serious?

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9 hours ago, Squamfan said:

 

this is a bad take imo. What iare they supposed to say outside of that statement, other than "I can't comment"? how is saying that 20X over a 5 minute zoom call going to do anything? they are taking this very seriously. 

 

This is just media sour grapes after not being allowed in to a few post-covid practices. 

 

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33 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

It was such a negative story from top to bottom. That part of the coach sometimes happens, it’s not a big deal as he is making it out to be. JB is obviously busy in Texas and yes, he could zoom to a media outlet here but why? There is nothing to say at this point other than the released statement. They have someone investigating this from their end so those pack of hungry wolves can wait. 
 

Also did not like his attack on our ownership. That pisses me off. Like I’ve said many times before, we are lucky to have Aquallini who has brought financial stability into this market. He is a local owner who has always paid to the cap ceiling, passionate about this team and has engaged in many community charities. 
 

Thanks for sharing the article but it was mostly crap in my opinion.

And yet sadly it made the province...standards are low these days. All any media do these days is fan flames.

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3 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

there is a case for contract termination if he's found guilty.  He is done as a Canuck regardless.

 

We should have taken the highest offer that was offered to Benning for Virtanen earlier.  Jim Benning dropping the ball again.  

 

gg. 

So, what exactly was the highest offer made for Jake, and when did that offer occur?

 

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13 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, I guess the love affair with Gillis is he has the trophies and JB has the draft picks - perhaps if they can some how be merge, the Canucks would finally have the perfect GM...

If we took the best parts of Milford, Quin, Burke, Nonis, Gillis and JB we'd have one heck of a team.   One criticism i have with JB, is he hasn't made a blockbuster trade yet.    We need a Garth Butcher like deal.   Get he needs to have a player without a NMC/NTC ... But adding a Ronning and Courtnall would go a long way into finishing up the team.   Secretly so i don't get flamed too much, i'm hoping Rathbone comes in and does 75% of what QHs does for our offense, and is solid defensively.   Reports are he's very aggressive and plays with an edge...and that he's the guy that we use to make that happen.   Probably a pipe dream.   Both Horvat and Miller are other targets.    

 

Well really it would be more like trading Myers or Schmidt.   An established decade or so long player, for a 24 year old C and a TT sort/age.    

 

Not going to happen but one can dream.   Quins Linden team was mostly a veteran team our is not yet.    

 

Gillis could make sure they got enough sleep and make sure the organization had everything it needs to succeed - but keep him away from any contract signings ... don't need another mess like that later.  

 

Burke or Quin can be the voice/persona of the team.   Meat and potatoes are ok (JB), but let's get some bluster back.   Plus we need another lopsided draft deal (Sedins/Bure).    
 

Nonis to add one marquee player that gives me incredible hope (Luongo)...maybe he's the one to trade a guy too lol.   Also need his best draft ... but only allowed to do one draft because he backed it up with a couple of our worst ones. 

 

Milford just to point out to all the fans that think JB is a master drafter all-time. Not until we can take any four year segment of JB drafting, and see 10,000 NHL games from it.   He's still the king. 

 

Forgot Keenan.   Well nevermind, yes the  biggest trade tree in club history.  No no no thanks.  He can eff off.  

 

Back to the blockbuster trade.   Sure miss those things.   Since the cap came in they've died out.   We don't even get fleecings anymore.   Where is the Neely or Naslund trade anyways?   Don't exist.   Miller will have to do for now.   And Schmidt.   But the team could really use one right about now.   Put these guys into the computer and this is what he'd look like: the two faces of squidward GIF

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