Will major things be done in the offseason to improve our team?

[CanucksFan8353]

I think I saw something months ago on twitter that FA said Benning and Green are safe no matter what happened this season.  I can try to dig out what I saw if any of you think I am recollecting that wrong.  So, with Benning and Green presumed safe and the major cap issues caused by the financial hit of the COVID-19 pandemic, is there even anything that possibly could be done? Something needs to be done as the core is entering it's window now and if we don't ice a playoff team until 2022-2023 like Benning is talking about, our core will be on the other side of it's peak.  29 is almost ancient by NHL standards (That's how old Bo will be in 2024).  That's the age when Sid won his FINAL cup to put it in perspective.  

 

If we want to save the window for this team, wholesale changes need to be made.  Bad contracts need to be dumped.  Hughes/Petterson need to be signed to financially advantageous for both sides deals.  Improvements to the team beyond that also need to be made.  If you listen to the Sportsnet 650 podcasts, there's also the fact that Vancouver has developed a reputation of a place where management treats its players poorly, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic but precipitated by gems like Benning saying "I ran out of time" to sign Toffoli and letting Tanev, Markstrom and Stecher walk (3 of the pillars of this team's success last year and in the bubble) to the most precious gem of all "we do things day by day around here."  Benning has shown himself wholly incapable of making this team a success during his entire tenure here IMO.  Since FA has said management and coaching is safe, though, I'm not sure what we're going to do to improve? Also, why is FA content with the status quo of no playoffs and finishing near last in the league year after year after year?  Also, it's likely that Petterson and Hughes will want to play on contending teams.  I trust that FA will realize that he will lose them after their likely bridge deals are up because they are not going to want to stay in a dumpster fire situation like this.  

 

This offseason is our chance to right the ship.  Benning and Green need to be chased out of Vancouver with pitchforks to be honest.  That's the first, essential albeit far from only key, to trying to win a cup with this current core.  Getting a GM and coach who our players know view them like family and who are truly committed to having a excellent work environment for the players and their families will go a long way.  It'll also help us sign UFA's that can help put this core, which is beyond stellar, over the hump.  Item #2 on the list should be to hire a GM that will not trade away picks just to try to get into 1 playoff one-and-done round year after year.

 

If FA dithers much longer, we will probably have Boesser, Horvat, Petterson and Hughes all requesting trades out of Vancouver before too long.  Again, to reiterate, unfortunately, FA seems committed to keeping Benning indefinitely no matter the results on the ice, which I don't understand. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sean83

[Outsiders]

I think the Canucks just need to continue to get younger. The Vets and Project players like Roussel, Beagle, Vesey, Boyd, Highmore all need to go. This year was a crap shoot from the start. We also just aren't good enough. However, we got young players that can play and need to be played. 

 

Hoglander-Pettersson-Boeser

Miller-Horvat-Podkolzin

Pearson- _______-Lind

Motte-Jasek-MacEwen

Gadjovich

 

IF we are able to sign/more likely trade for a solid 3rd line C we'd be golden 

 

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Myers

Juolevi-Tryamkin

 

 

Schmidt traded hopefully for that 3rd C we need

 

Demko

DePietro 

[JDLax16]

Nothing will be done in the off-season to improve this team. Jethro Bodine is safe, as evidenced by Fredo Aquilini allowing him to continue to make brutal moves, like that hilariously bad Pearson contract. We are screwed. 

[deus.ex.makina]

what we have NOT to do : 
re sign Edler.

 

what we have to do : 

Sign Tryamkin

then sign Hamonic.

 

we have way too much holes in the bottom 6, especially the third line.

Pearson may have been a mistake, but i reserve my judgment. He could be a pricey but efficient 3rd line winger. 

 

Re sign Sutter under 2x2 could be the right move,

 

i'm wondering if Galchenyuk could take the job at the third line 1@1.5M.

 

a fourh line of Motte McEwen Highmore/Hawryluk could be interesting.

 

One of my main concern is, hope Miller will not force Benning to a trade, because his winning attitude can't sustain the awful reasults and lack of team's competitivity.

 

i let Vesey, Edler walk

i hope Holtby will be picked up by Seattle

i let Edler walk again (just to be sure)

Decide what to do with Roussel, either buy him out or search for trade partner.

Beagle on LTIR.

 

Target a game changer at the Draft... i don't think we will be in a spot where we could pick up Powers or Beniers ; but maybe Guenther or even Johnson. Lysell if we slide away.

Don't draft Hughes just because of his brother.  

 

this is my lineup for next year.

 

Miller Pettersson Podkolzin

Hoglander Horvat Boeser

Pearson Sutter Galchenyuk 

Motte McEwen Highmore

Hawryluk

 

Tryamkin Schmidt

Hughes Hamonic

Rathbone Myers

Juolevi

 

Demko

DiPietro / experienced Backup

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

Think you need to spend a little more time understanding the ages when the majority of pro NHL athletes are in their "winning window".   According to JB it's 26-32.   29 isn't ancient.   How old when Naslund started his peak?  How old were the Sedins when they peaked?  How old was Hedman last season?  How old was WSH core when they won theirs?  How about Schenn, O'Reilly, AP etc from St. Louis?    When did Marchand break out (how old was he) and how long has he been doing it now ... TT, having a career year .. 

 

Ugh.   The NHL is younger now only because it's cheaper to use a ELC prospect in the bottom six then a 32 year old like Sutter.  Doesn't mean they are better either, it's just the economy of it.   Some very good seasoned vets have seen their careers cut short as a result, the ones that still stay are blue chippers past their prime willing to stay and get the same money as one of these fringe prospects.   Perry, Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds for example.  

 

Next year isn't the year to "go for it".   EP and QHs 21-22...Podz 19-20.. it could be IF we had the cap space.   This team will in fact have two windows, the second one being the one that's got the better odds of winning a cup.   The first one opens next year a crack, then opens all the way the following year and yes that's because we need more blue chip vet support for these kids.   That will last the entirety of EP and QHs second contract, and will include blue chip vets like Miller, Horvat, Schmidt, Myers and Pearson.     This is the window really is their playoff contender window.   Where they gain experience.   Maybe we get lucky too.   The wider window is when most or all those blue chip vets are gone and EP, QHs, Podz, Hogs, BB, Demko plus plus are in that 26-32 age bracket that most vet teams contend. 

 

Think about it.   Look at Vegas.  Look at TB.  Look at PIT, Boston and WSH the past five years.   Examples of teams winning in their first window since the cap came in are CHI x 2/3 LA x 1/2 - both these teams had a better support of vets though.   It's possible to win in that first window.   Winning too much closed CHI second window completely lol.   Other teams who won cups ANA - Vet team.  CAR vet team.   Sure both had some youth in the them, but it was the vets carrying the mail.   Pronger, Niedermayer(s), Selanne, McDonald, Pahlsen etc...  etc.   

 

JB says two more years and it makes perfect sense from the viewpoint of entering the sweet spot of our first window.   One could say it's just one long window too...i see it as two - COL supersized their second window by selling their vets from their first - another thing we should consider occurring in 2-3 years if things don't look so good.   Keep one of Miller or Horvat (our Landeskog) and dump a Duchene, Barrie etc to provide more support for EP, QHs maybe BB ... and whatever else we have coming up by then.  

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, JDLax16 said:

Nothing will be done in the off-season to improve this team. Jethro Bodine is safe, as evidenced by Fredo Aquilini allowing him to continue to make brutal moves, like that hilariously bad Pearson contract. We are screwed. 

We aren't "screwed".   Canucks are a young team and will be for another 3-4 years.   Then we will be a mature team, with playoff experience (we'd better!), ready to contend.    That's the cycle.   Pearson won't be around for that.  Neither will Myers.   Probably not Miller and maybe not Horvat too.  The team that we have that will contend with this core, won't look much of anything like this one does now.    Think of this team like the one we had when Luongo first came in.    Really it's not even quite there yet but close enough.   That's where we are right now in our cycle.   Except EP/QHs/BB have shown a lot more then the Sedins did ... Why this team reminds me more of our very early 90's team more then any other.   Just don't have the quality of vets we did back then, but we have more young bodies so there is hope too.   12 million sitting on the bench should give this team a chance before their true window is even open. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by IBatch

[JDLax16]

Just now, IBatch said:

We aren't "screwed".   Canucks are a young team and will be for another 3-4 years.   Then we will be a mature team, with playoff experience (we'd better!), ready to contend.    That's the cycle. 

Ah, yes, the tried and true decade long rebuild. 
 

 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, JDLax16 said:

Ah, yes, the tried and true decade long rebuild. 
 

 

Lol.   Yep.  Welcome to the reality of cap era NHL.   Detroit says hello.   Our best comp.  At least they started with Bertuzzi and Larkin.   Now they are rebuilding the rebuild. Expectations a little high maybe?   17/45 picks NHLers .....so far look to play NHL games.   How many is yet to be determined, but it's at worst above average based on ADP.   At best excellent.   What does a team need the most when it's rebuilding again?   As a long time Canuck fan - and hockey fan who actually spends enough time to see what else is going on - i figured we'd be a good team again somewhere in the mid 2020's.  And probably not contend at all with this core.   Sucks you can't see the forest for the trees but get the impatience.   Send your complaints to Bettman for growing this into a stupid empire.  32 teams.   Odds are now are a tiny bit more then 6 final appearances in a century, and 3 cups.   Have fun with that math. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by IBatch

[Drakrami]

I dont get why people thinks we have a window open as if we are stacked with young superstars. If you take other superstar examples: Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane/Toews, McDavid/Draisaitl, Matthew/Marner/Tavares: these players, 2-3 years into their career are already dominating the games. Our players: Pettersson/Hughes/Boeser/Horvat, already 2-3 years into their careers, show no where near the same level of domination or production. I find it quite unconvincing we actually have some sort of window open comparative to the teams I have mentioned above. 

[vannuck59]

JB has no idea what he is doing. I have been a Canuck fan for 50 years and i see no light at the end of the tunnel .

[vannuck59]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

We aren't "screwed".   Canucks are a young team and will be for another 3-4 years.   Then we will be a mature team, with playoff experience (we'd better!), ready to contend.    That's the cycle.   Pearson won't be around for that.  Neither will Myers.   Probably not Miller and maybe not Horvat too.  The team that we have that will contend with this core, won't look much of anything like this one does now.    Think of this team like the one we had when Luongo first came in.    Really it's not even quite there yet but close enough.   That's where we are right now in our cycle.   Except EP/QHs/BB have shown a lot more then the Sedins did ... Why this team reminds me more of our very early 90's team more then any other.   Just don't have the quality of vets we did back then, but we have more young bodies so there is hope too.   12 million sitting on the bench should give this team a chance before their true window is even open. 

Question is , are any of the management going to be here in 3 to 5 years ?

[Angry Goose]

I'll ignore some of the OPs remarks regarding what type of work environment VAN has and the other speculative opinions.

 

2019-20 was a good year because the Canucks had a more balanced line up/depth.  This season, ignoring external factors, had a lot of evaluation going on mostly with younger players.

 

  Safe to say Hoglander is a key piece going forward.  If Juolevi can keep improving he has a spot on the team too.  Gaudette is gone, not sure about Jake but for his sake it might be time to get a fresh start.  I guess I've come down a little on Chatfield-he can be a bottom pair/7th.  I guess we will see how Lind/Gadjovich/Rathbone do because if they can step up, that would be a boon.  I think Podz is going to be a gamer.  

 

I'd also consider re-signing Motte with term and a good cap hit and see if he can play with Bo and Pearson.  They need that grinder like Leivo that can win puck battles and keep the pressure up.  I think he's ready to take on a bigger role with the team.  

 

Hard to say if Roussel will bounce back.  Beagle is a ? with his injury status but safe to say the bottom 6 is probably where the Canucks could really improve.  The third line needs to be productive.  

 

I really like BB, but if the Canucks could find a young top 4 damn with similar upside I think it would be worth considering.  

 

 

[Chris12345]

Nope, no major changes will be done.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

I'll ignore some of the OPs remarks regarding what type of work environment VAN has and the other speculative opinions.

 

2019-20 was a good year because the Canucks had a more balanced line up/depth.  This season, ignoring external factors, had a lot of evaluation going on mostly with younger players.

 

  Safe to say Hoglander is a key piece going forward.  If Juolevi can keep improving he has a spot on the team too.  Gaudette is gone, not sure about Jake but for his sake it might be time to get a fresh start.  I guess I've come down a little on Chatfield-he can be a bottom pair/7th.  I guess we will see how Lind/Gadjovich/Rathbone do because if they can step up, that would be a boon.  I think Podz is going to be a gamer.  

 

I'd also consider re-signing Motte with term and a good cap hit and see if he can play with Bo and Pearson.  They need that grinder like Leivo that can win puck battles and keep the pressure up.  I think he's ready to take on a bigger role with the team.  

 

Hard to say if Roussel will bounce back.  Beagle is a ? with his injury status but safe to say the bottom 6 is probably where the Canucks could really improve.  The third line needs to be productive.  

 

I really like BB, but if the Canucks could find a young top 4 damn with similar upside I think it would be worth considering.  

 

 

Beagle turns 36 years old in October.  With his injury status, he’s running on gas fumes at best.  Tank is probably empty.  Happens to all athletes at some point.  Father Time eventually wins the battle.

[DSVII]

We can cross Tryamkin off any plans next year

 

 

[nux_win]

The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!  Quick, sell all the assets and panic buy a bunch of unknown quantities.  Actually, no.  That's not the answer.  Panicking will only make things worse.  Every NHL team tries to improve in the offseason whether they have had a good season or not.  So yes, let's try as hard as we can to improve but as frustrating as it might be right now, blowing everything up isn't the right way.  That is rarely a good idea but it's particularly inappropriate when we have some good young talent to build around. 

 

Just because some people don't like or understand Jim's plan doesn't mean that he doesn't have one.  Building an NHL team is not only complicated but there is a lot of fortune and misfortune involved.  Both what happens on the ice and at the negotiating table is hard to predict exactly.  There are a lot of variables that are difficult to predict.  It's not like building a car, or anything physical, where you just buy quality parts and a good mechanic to put all together and voila, we're talking about unpredictable human beings here and a sport played on ice that has a razor thin margin of victory and any team can beat any other team on any given night.  Nobody has a crystal ball and there are 31 other teams all trying to get better all at the same time.  And it doesn't help that the NHL itself is an old-boys network that for some reason has it in for the Canucks (biased refereeing is just the tip of that rotten iceberg). 

 

Of course Benning is going to try his best to improve the team.  How exactly to do that is a complicated thing.  It's OK to speculate and even make suggestions but even though I'm a very experienced hockey fan and I'm not shy about giving my opinions I don't think that qualifies me to say that Jim doesn't know what he's doing.  Yes, it sucks losing, and I want to win as much as anyone, but panicking and blowing it all up midway through this rebuild might feel good, for a few minutes, but isn't going to help.  That said, I think we need some more physical players to protect our young skilled guys (Hamonic for example is a keeper but we need more guys like that who can play with a bit of a physical edge).  Ferland was a very good add by Benning, he was just the kind of player we needed, but we got unlucky with his health issues.  Otherwise we need to be patient, keep drafting well, and use all avenues available to get the best players available.  As always.

 

Go Canucks Go!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Lol.   Yep.  Welcome to the reality of cap era NHL.   Detroit says hello.   Our best comp.  At least they started with Bertuzzi and Larkin.   Now they are rebuilding the rebuild. Expectations a little high maybe?   17/45 picks NHLers .....so far look to play NHL games.   How many is yet to be determined, but it's at worst above average based on ADP.   At best excellent.   What does a team need the most when it's rebuilding again?   As a long time Canuck fan - and hockey fan who actually spends enough time to see what else is going on - i figured we'd be a good team again somewhere in the mid 2020's.  And probably not contend at all with this core.   Sucks you can't see the forest for the trees but get the impatience.   Send your complaints to Bettman for growing this into a stupid empire.  32 teams.   Odds are now are a tiny bit more then 6 final appearances in a century, and 3 cups.   Have fun with that math. 

Detroit has a ton of extra picks in the upcoming draft(s).  Now obviously they could always all bust but you’d think a guy with the drafting skills like Benning would’ve accumulated multiple picks as well especially since we were a rebuilding team.  He did WAY back in 2014 but that was only as a result of Kesler wanting out.  Now there’s more than me way to rebuild but it seems to me you should play to your strengths..which clearly is drafting.

Edited May 2, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[-DLC-]

3 hours ago, Drakrami said:

I dont get why people thinks we have a window open as if we are stacked with young superstars. If you take other superstar examples: Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane/Toews, McDavid/Draisaitl, Matthew/Marner/Tavares: these players, 2-3 years into their career are already dominating the games. Our players: Pettersson/Hughes/Boeser/Horvat, already 2-3 years into their careers, show no where near the same level of domination or production. I find it quite unconvincing we actually have some sort of window open comparative to the teams I have mentioned above. 

Yeah, I love how they've all helped their teams win a cup.  Edmonton and Toronto were powerhouses in the playoffs...oh, wait.

 

Some of those names don't even get into the playoffs.  But sure.

 

Those teams aren't "stacked with young superstars"...they have a couple but it means nothing until they win a cup.  Individual awards only take you so far.

 

McDavid's six year window so far and how his dominance has helped his team.  The goal isn't for an individual to dominate the game...it's for individuals to help their team win a cup:

 

 

Six years with McJesus and he hasn't managed to elevate them.  Stacked with superstars isn't the goal in this game. Winning the cup is and not all have first pick superstars in their tool box.

 

Matthews and crew (after 5 years or more):

 

 

Also....number one draft picks SHOULD dominate the game....but it's about helping their team get there that matters.   

 

When you have 4 number one picks your team SHOULD have something to show for it.  (They don't)

 

 

 

2-3 years isn't 5-6 years that these other guys have had.  

[DSVII]

18 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Yeah, I love how they've all helped their teams win a cup.  Edmonton and Toronto were powerhouses in the playoffs...oh, wait.

 

Some of those names don't even get into the playoffs.  But sure.

 

Those teams aren't "stacked with young superstars"...they have a couple but it means nothing until they win a cup. 

 

 

I've always been under the impression that this incarnation of the Canucks will be competitive in the same style as the Islanders. Team effort, not one superstar, and balanced scoring across all the lines. However, don't understate the effect of Superstars, three of those superstar cores listed have already won cups.

 

Toronto qualified for playoffs every year since acquiring Matthews in a tougher division and took a Stanley Cup Finalist to 7 games two times (Same reason we give ourselves props for taking Blues to 7, let's be consistent here.)

 

McDavid didn't get in the playoffs because Chiarelli self destructed the team and traded Hall and Eberle for peanuts and grit. But he's gone and the team is on the upswing now. 

 

Quote

Individual awards only take you so far.

So we shouldn't make such a huge deal about our Calders then? haha

Edited May 2, 2021 by DSVII

[JM_]

4 hours ago, JDLax16 said:

Ah, yes, the tried and true decade long rebuild. 
 

 

I don't get the analogy, but that pic is pretty funny.  

 

We're not screwed for next year, but there are some major holes to fill, 3C in particular imo.