Is it time to bump Benning sideways?

[*Buzzsaw*]

There is a lot of 'Fire Benning' commentary lately... and I will admit to feeling that way sometimes... but generally it is a result of his trades...  not his drafting.

 

The facts are, Benning has been a good drafter... his picks have generally proved to be good ones.

 

His problem is in his trading.

 

He has been a big 'fiddler' with the lower ranked players... the 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines and the lower defense pairings.  He has made a lot of trades with these level of players... always seeming to be intent in finding some 'diamond in the rough' among other team's castoffs. 

 

And the result has generally been the loss of valuable draft picks or the general lowering of the team's secondary line quality.

 

The third and fourth lines of the Canucks and the lower D pairings are now either no better or worse than they were a few years back.  And the team has lost draft picks in the meantime.

 

The other failing has been in not getting any value for potential free agents... there are multiple instances... the most recent being Markstrom and Tanev.  Sometimes a General Manager has to do what is necessary.... if he knows he doesn't have CAP space, then he needs to trade assets he can't sign... and he needs to do this with a healthy time buffer between their contract expiring.  Winnipeg's Kevin Cheveldayoff has been very good at getting value for free agents he knew he couldn't sign... for example Jacob Trouba was out of reach for them... but they traded him before his contract expired and got a 1st round pick and Neal Pionk in exchange.  And this year he traded Patrik Laine for Pierre Luc Dubois.  I have never seen Benning achieve a trade with this kind of value.

 

The other factor is the ability of a GM to pick a coach who can develop his draft choices and build a team.  Travis Green has clearly not accomplished this goal.

 

The question is, would Jim be better suited to being some kind of 'Super Scout' or Player Drafting guru instead of General Manager?

 

Can he be bumped sideways into this kind of role and the organization bring in a new General Manager who can manage trades, contracts and picking a coach?

[JM_]

how many times have you heard of a move like this in management? he's in as GM  or he's out. 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[wallstreetamigo]

Its not likely he would accept a demotion. Either he gets moved to the Presidents role (please god no) or he gets fired. 

 

There is no reason to believe another GM could not come in and be good at drafting and the other areas he needs to be good at too.

 

There is no reason to hang onto Benning just for his drafting. The scouting group is still in place. A new GM will be able to tap into that as well. Its not like Benning by himself has decided on the players to pick. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[King Heffy]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

how many times have you heard of a move like this in management? he's in as GM  or he's out. 

 

 

Agreed.  Grateful we have a GM who does draft well going into the hardest draft to accurately assess talent in history.  We're now seeing the rewards of his drafting and are calling up promising young players instead of plugs. 

[DSVII]

At the very least. He needs a President who can insulate him from ownership interference. 

[ShawnAntoski]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Its not likely he would accept a demotion. Either he gets moved to the Presidents role (please god no) or he gets fired. 

 

There is no reason to believe another GM could not come in and be good at drafting and the other areas he needs to be good at too.

 

There is no reason to hang onto Benning just for his drafting. The scouting group is still in place. A new GM will be able to tap into that as well. Its not like Benning by himself has decided on the players to pick. 

Good points, if he is unwilling to compromise then JBs' time as Canuck GM is ticking down.  He surely didn't make it easy for himself, with all his signings but he did lay a better foundation for the next GM with his prospects...

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Good points, if he is unwilling to compromise then JBs' time as Canuck GM is ticking down.  He surely didn't make it easy for himself, with all his signings but he did lay a better foundation for the next GM with his prospects...

The ones he hasnt given up on for sure.

 

But drafting is not the only factor. The team needs a GM who can manage the cap effectively and bring in the right secondary players to fit around the core

 

Thats not Benning based on his history.

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Agreed.  Grateful we have a GM who does draft well going into the hardest draft to accurately assess talent in history.  We're now seeing the rewards of his drafting and are calling up promising young players instead of plugs. 

yup that is great to see. I'm far more concerned about the pro-scoring and contract side of things. 

[ShawnAntoski]

20 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The ones he hasnt given up on for sure.

 

But drafting is not the only factor. The team needs a GM who can manage the cap effectively and bring in the right secondary players to fit around the core

 

Thats not Benning based on his history.

Yeah, he does have his flaws and we will just have to see what he does in this offseason: the ED, JV accusation(s) (imo, the PR department had already made there decision on this) and the FA'S we have - I hope they all walk cause there will be alot of covid cast offs that will available & they will be a year older...

[ken kaniff]

Not sure where this notion that Benning is a super drafter when his drafting has been average at best. He picked Virtanen and Juolevi who both were off the board picks at the time (Nylander and Tkachuk were consensus picks) both of which are worse than who he passed on. Hughes fell to us so that was a no brainer. Boeser was consensus at the time (between him and Konecny). 
 

The only picks I would actually give him props for at Pettersson, Demko and Gaudette. And he traded Gaudette away for an AHL tweener. In addition he keeps trading away draft picks, so even if he was a good drafter it means nothing since we have less picks.

 

We would arguably be in a better position if we would have just went off of the TSN draft list rather than have Benning make picks. I wonder if Benning is still working for Boston, sabotaging the Canucks at every point over the last 7 years. Usually with this level of incompetence people get fired but Aqua is keeping Dim Jim around for whatever reason

[Westcoasting]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

There is a lot of 'Fire Benning' commentary lately... and I will admit to feeling that way sometimes... but generally it is a result of his trades...  not his drafting.

 

The facts are, Benning has been a good drafter... his picks have generally proved to be good ones.

 

His problem is in his trading.

 

He has been a big 'fiddler' with the lower ranked players... the 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines and the lower defense pairings.  He has made a lot of trades with these level of players... always seeming to be intent in finding some 'diamond in the rough' among other team's castoffs. 

 

And the result has generally been the loss of valuable draft picks or the general lowering of the team's secondary line quality.

 

The third and fourth lines of the Canucks and the lower D pairings are now either no better or worse than they were a few years back.  And the team has lost draft picks in the meantime.

 

The other failing has been in not getting any value for potential free agents... there are multiple instances... the most recent being Markstrom and Tanev.  Sometimes a General Manager has to do what is necessary.... if he knows he doesn't have CAP space, then he needs to trade assets he can't sign... and he needs to do this with a healthy time buffer between their contract expiring.  Winnipeg's Kevin Cheveldayoff has been very good at getting value for free agents he knew he couldn't sign... for example Jacob Trouba was out of reach for them... but they traded him before his contract expired and got a 1st round pick and Neal Pionk in exchange.  And this year he traded Patrik Laine for Pierre Luc Dubois.  I have never seen Benning achieve a trade with this kind of value.

 

The other factor is the ability of a GM to pick a coach who can develop his draft choices and build a team.  Travis Green has clearly not accomplished this goal.

 

The question is, would Jim be better suited to being some kind of 'Super Scout' or Player Drafting guru instead of General Manager?

 

Can he be bumped sideways into this kind of role and the organization bring in a new General Manager who can manage trades, contracts and picking a coach?

I thought he was a great GM... didn’t he singlehandedly turn Calgary into a cup contender?

[alt kilgore]

52 minutes ago, ken kaniff said:

Not sure where this notion that Benning is a super drafter when his drafting has been average at best. He picked Virtanen and Juolevi who both were off the board picks at the time (Nylander and Tkachuk were consensus picks) both of which are worse than who he passed on. Hughes fell to us so that was a no brainer. Boeser was consensus at the time (between him and Konecny). 
 

The only picks I would actually give him props for at Pettersson, Demko and Gaudette. And he traded Gaudette away for an AHL tweener. In addition he keeps trading away draft picks, so even if he was a good drafter it means nothing since we have less picks.

 

We would arguably be in a better position if we would have just went off of the TSN draft list rather than have Benning make picks. I wonder if Benning is still working for Boston, sabotaging the Canucks at every point over the last 7 years. Usually with this level of incompetence people get fired but Aqua is keeping Dim Jim around for whatever reason

 

And the reports at the time indicated that Brackett was pushing for Pettersson, and Benning was leaning more towards Glass.  But JB was finally convinced on Petey. whew

But the picks of Demko and Gaudette (and Boeser) were in a large part due to Brackett;s main expertise which was in the USHL where they all played.  Who knows if we'd have had those players without Brackett.

Virtanen was picked by Benning before Brackett was named head scout.  And after Judd recommended Boeser his first year in, the next one, JB swooped in and put his foot down on Joulevi.  According to Ian MacIntyre, it was the last time Benning made such a unilateral decision for the first pick.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 hours ago, DSVII said:

At the very least. He needs a President who can insulate him from ownership interference. 

Assuming that actually exists (interference from high on up) & that's an assumption not a fact, what executive worth his stones would be willing to work for such an employer?  None.

Edited May 3, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[ken kaniff]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Assuming that actually exists (interference from high on up) & that's an assumption not a fact, what executive worth his stones would be willing to work for such an employer?  None.

I find it funny how often this comes up with zero proof. Literally the only times I’ve ever heard meddling ownership recently is from fans making things up 

[wallstreetamigo]

I think Benning gets a bit too much credit for his drafting. It has been good under his watch but not godly. It just looks godly next to Gillis, Nonis, etc.

[wallstreetamigo]

22 minutes ago, ken kaniff said:

I find it funny how often this comes up with zero proof. Literally the only times I’ve ever heard meddling ownership recently is from fans making things up 

Its been talked about ever since they bought the team. 

 

Its kind of a rock and a hard place for Benning. Either the owners interfere and force him to make moves he doesnt want to (which makes him a glorified yes man) or the owners dont interfere and all the bad moves are solely on him. He really cant win.

[grouse747]

I'm thinking 3rd and 4th line and even the low-end 2nd line has a lot to do with attitude/desire/teach chemistry and less to do with talent.

 

draft/sign more high energy but perhaps less skilled players and develop them yourselves

 

it seems like players almost invariably play better for their old team than their new team when they are desirable players.

 

I do like the idea of picking up talented, underachievers.... see Pete Carroll in Seattle. figures he can handle the personalities

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

There is a lot of 'Fire Benning' commentary lately... and I will admit to feeling that way sometimes... but generally it is a result of his trades...  not his drafting.

 

The facts are, Benning has been a good drafter... his picks have generally proved to be good ones.

 

His problem is in his trading.

 

He has been a big 'fiddler' with the lower ranked players... the 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines and the lower defense pairings.  He has made a lot of trades with these level of players... always seeming to be intent in finding some 'diamond in the rough' among other team's castoffs. 

 

And the result has generally been the loss of valuable draft picks or the general lowering of the team's secondary line quality.

 

The third and fourth lines of the Canucks and the lower D pairings are now either no better or worse than they were a few years back.  And the team has lost draft picks in the meantime.

 

The other failing has been in not getting any value for potential free agents... there are multiple instances... the most recent being Markstrom and Tanev.  Sometimes a General Manager has to do what is necessary.... if he knows he doesn't have CAP space, then he needs to trade assets he can't sign... and he needs to do this with a healthy time buffer between their contract expiring.  Winnipeg's Kevin Cheveldayoff has been very good at getting value for free agents he knew he couldn't sign... for example Jacob Trouba was out of reach for them... but they traded him before his contract expired and got a 1st round pick and Neal Pionk in exchange.  And this year he traded Patrik Laine for Pierre Luc Dubois.  I have never seen Benning achieve a trade with this kind of value.

 

The other factor is the ability of a GM to pick a coach who can develop his draft choices and build a team.  Travis Green has clearly not accomplished this goal.

 

The question is, would Jim be better suited to being some kind of 'Super Scout' or Player Drafting guru instead of General Manager?

 

Can he be bumped sideways into this kind of role and the organization bring in a new General Manager who can manage trades, contracts and picking a coach?

So Benning was supposed to trade Markstrom and Tanev while the Canucks were clearly in playoff contention?  He actually did the opposite.  He traded for Toffoli because Boeser got injured so we actually could continue to make a playoff push...

[Gollumpus]

8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

There is a lot of 'Fire Benning' commentary lately... and I will admit to feeling that way sometimes... but generally it is a result of his trades...  not his drafting.

 

The facts are, Benning has been a good drafter... his picks have generally proved to be good ones.

 

His problem is in his trading.

 

He has been a big 'fiddler' with the lower ranked players... the 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines and the lower defense pairings.  He has made a lot of trades with these level of players... always seeming to be intent in finding some 'diamond in the rough' among other team's castoffs. 

 

And the result has generally been the loss of valuable draft picks or the general lowering of the team's secondary line quality.

 

The third and fourth lines of the Canucks and the lower D pairings are now either no better or worse than they were a few years back.  And the team has lost draft picks in the meantime.

 

The other failing has been in not getting any value for potential free agents... there are multiple instances... the most recent being Markstrom and Tanev.  Sometimes a General Manager has to do what is necessary.... if he knows he doesn't have CAP space, then he needs to trade assets he can't sign... and he needs to do this with a healthy time buffer between their contract expiring.  Winnipeg's Kevin Cheveldayoff has been very good at getting value for free agents he knew he couldn't sign... for example Jacob Trouba was out of reach for them... but they traded him before his contract expired and got a 1st round pick and Neal Pionk in exchange.  And this year he traded Patrik Laine for Pierre Luc Dubois.  I have never seen Benning achieve a trade with this kind of value.

 

The other factor is the ability of a GM to pick a coach who can develop his draft choices and build a team.  Travis Green has clearly not accomplished this goal.

 

The question is, would Jim be better suited to being some kind of 'Super Scout' or Player Drafting guru instead of General Manager?

 

Can he be bumped sideways into this kind of role and the organization bring in a new General Manager who can manage trades, contracts and picking a coach?

This would be very unfair to all of the Benning bashers around here. They are just starting to almost get sorta' kinda' okay at their jabs. Pull Benning aside and he'd be a distraction to them while they try to develop their dislike for the new GM. Best to leave him where he is so they can properly develop.

 

                                                      regards,  G.

[Timråfan]

8 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Agreed.  Grateful we have a GM who does draft well going into the hardest draft to accurately assess talent in history.  We're now seeing the rewards of his drafting and are calling up promising young players instead of plugs. 

Yeah, Gaudette went away quick. It’s not long before MacEwan is gone too if he can’t handle a bottom six role. 
Podolski people here talk about as bottom six player now. 
So Demko, Petey, Höglander and Hughes left.

3 small players that easily can be crushed by the other team in a play off situation and a young unexperienced goalie.

 

You guys have an open wound after the Sedin twins got hustled because they were so ”friendly”.

So wounded so you applauded Bennings absolutely worst signing ever, a punch drunk player he never should have approached in the first place.