[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Edmonton Oilers l May 4, 7 p.m. l SNP | RINSE&REPEAT EDITION

[canuck2288]

8 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

We had a period there we were trending up, before covid. 

On a personal note, (after I survived covid 10 day coma) last week I had a mysterious pull of a shoulder muscle. It was an old rugby injury. But never hurt like that, ever before. Not making excuses, but one thing I know I went through was a very deep dehydration. I think the dehydration effected my shoulder ligament. F**#ing hell it felt like it was dislocated all over again. 

I think we're not done learning about the after effects of covid, especially with injuries. Normal aches and pains may be exacerbated. 

 

Sorry to hear about the health issues you have experienced 

 

glad you pulled through it 

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

yup...... your learning from other haters how to argue on how to win a argument? lies upon lies?

 

never did i suggest any of what you said? as they say. cool story bro.

 

i will argue one thing, im pretty good at pointing out hideous lies usually its from one type of poster, but not always. 

 

i will say again. demko has shown he can be elite, but consistency is troubling. all he has shown so far is he is slightly better than average. now let me clarify that. i'm saying he's in the better half of best goalies in the world. i would never argue that was a problem. being roughly around 25/89 goalies is not a bad thing.

 

also I would argue that buffalo is not better defensively than us. but i would argue ullmark is better than demko. 6 years of playing for buffalo and his sv% is .912

Boi, you got yourself into a pickle here 

 

I think to make it a fair comp, you need to look at Ullmark from two years ago, and look at each goalie at 25. Demko is clearly on a higher path at the same age. 

 

But having said that, a pairing of Demko-Ullmark would be pretty nice for us going forward. 

 

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, Oldmanpower said:

Play the young guys . Let’s see what we have moving forward.

I feel this is the perfect time/opportunity.  There's nothing to lose (and everything to gain).

 

I love seeing the up and coming talent get a shot and start working their way in.  

[smithers joe]

3 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

Joe, last night, and the previous night, the Canucks played their butts off, for close to two periods. As you say, lack of top end talent, and lack of fumes kick in, game over. But, according to a few, this is the coaching staff's fault, and JB's as well. That virus caused the Sabres to go on a 16 game losing streak, and they weren't hit nearly as hard.

problem for some is, if they aren't winning then they're not trying. you can only do what you can do. sometimes you play teams that are better than you.  i look for the team to have 3 scoring lines next year and one checking line. 3 scoring lines with at least 2 strong defensive players on each. if sutter is your 3c than that is a checking line. i want to see miller grooming podkolzin, horvat grooming lind and petey and boeser with a tougher winger.

this why i like the pearson signing so much. his defensive play takes some of the heavy lifting off bo.

winning is great but only a part of team play.

[-DLC-]

21 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Sorry to hear about the health issues you have experienced 

 

glad you pulled through it 

Do you acknowledge any of the "experience" others are sharing with you?   About how COVID aftermath is extremely difficult?

 

You use your own experience in playing the game and want that to be accepted as part of your argument...but, in fairness, you have to start listening to counter arguments and facts that others present to you.  Rather than barrelling through them because.....only your points matter?  That's not a good way to debate something.  

 

There is NO denying that this year has been the toughest ever on this team and no other team has had the combined obstacles and magnitude that they've faced.  Write it off and don't be harshly judging based on it.  And to go back further?   We gave up our goaltender and best d man....they are piecing together a team and it takes awhile to work new faces in.

 

I am under no illusion that this is perfect....but it's worth allowing a period of adjustment and recovery for before we stamp our feet and scream.  And I understand that it's out of my control and so that's not "blind", that's realistic.  You can still have fun...even when times are tough.  Life is what you make it and I'm not sure we should be following your lead.

 

This team showed some great things in the playoffs....goaltending led the way, yes, but that's often the case in the playoffs.  Get great goaltending and it can help carry you.  But the team, itself, beat some tough opponents.  There are some bright spots but you seem to vanish for them.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

24 minutes ago, tas said:

gsax takes shot quality into account. gsaa does not, and is therefore useless. gsax is as good a goalie stat as there is currently. 

 

I don't know why you've chosen this bizarre hill to die on, but, uh, you're long since dead. there isn't a knowledgable hockey person alive, including buffalo's management, who wouldn't trade ullmark for demko in a heartbeat. 

https://evolving-hockey.com/blog/a-new-expected-goals-model-for-predicting-goals-in-the-nhl/

 

i would argue that having a expected advantage for being on home ice but there isn't a stat for a disadvantage for being away is kinda silly....... just remember this is not baseball. hockey is very complicated, and i would not let nerds influence my decision in how good a players is. especially true since  they balance stats out because they don't want to look bad.

 

 

[BarnBurner]

5 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I feel this is the perfect time/opportunity.  There's nothing to lose (and everything to gain).

 

I love seeing the up and coming talent get a shot and start working their way in.  

Exactly. Juolevi is already showing he's going to be a rock-steady player. Add to that Lind, Rathbone, Gadjovich, and even a player like Jasek. And that's not even mentioning Podkolzin next year. Give these young guns a shot. There's at least 3 or 4 players that will become NHL regulars. 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Rush17 said:

I hope Jim has a lucky hat he can wear for the draft lottery Lol

[HorvatToBaertschi]

8 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

it hasn't been the cores fault, you might want more than 10 goals out of your bottom 6, not including sutter, motte.

 

like i said demko, has played average for a starter. but enjoy your copium

Demko hasn't played average, he has been wildly inconsistent is all. He started off terribly, and then lead the league an entire month (or 12 game sample). Who knows how much of that falloff since then is due to Covid? He was in a groove on par with his bubble performance. Average goaltending performances don't make people around the league talk. 

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Do you acknowledge any of the "experience" others are sharing with you?   About how COVID aftermath is extremely difficult?

 

You use your own experience in playing the game and want that to be accepted as part of your argument...but, in fairness, you have to start listening to counter arguments and facts that others present to you.  Rather than barrelling through them because.....only your points matter?  That's not a good way to debate something.  

 

There is NO denying that this year has been the toughest ever on this team and no other team has had the combined obstacles and magnitude that they've faced.  Write it off and don't be harshly judging based on it.  And to go back further?   We gave up our goaltender and best d man....they are piecing together a team and it takes awhile to work new faces in.

 

I am under no illusion that this is perfect....but it's worth allowing a period of adjustment and recovery for before we stamp our feet and scream.  And I understand that it's out of my control and so that's not "blind", that's realistic.

 

This team showed some great things in the playoffs....goaltending led the way, yes, but that's often the case in the playoffs.  Get great goaltending and it can help carry you.  But the team, itself, beat some tough opponents.  There are some bright spots but you seem to vanish for them.

It's why i seriously question this fan is even a Canucks fan.   Dumb Nuck at least has the courtesy to says some funny things and lighten the mood.   

 

Maybe it's just a broken fan which with this team, or a Buffalo fan, i'd completely understand.   But the targets are all wrong.   Bettman and expansion did way way way more to the league then any GM or coach or player can do for our fortunes.   It's tough for any long term fan to see the talent level diluted faster then excellent players come in.   Even tougher to have only FIVE teams miss the show.   Now 15 soon 16 do.  

 

Like a broken record with this guy.   And has gathered a small group of like minded individuals to egg him on.   I don't mind anyone who has an intelligent context based respectful convo on what JB and TG and the players are doing wrong.   This is pure trolling.   Sends just enough  bait out there to make you give a small benifit of the doubt.   The intentions have been made pretty clear to me at least, 2288 times, that there is a sad little boy having a non-stop tantrum.   Sad really IF he's a fan.   If not ban the poster already.   We have the biggest forum in the league, it's very reasonable to think we get trolled on purpose by other teams fans.  

 

The rebuild started in 2017.   In 2020 we made the playoffs.  This year we won't.   Par for the course, well a little better then par all considered.   Whiffed on the timing.   So has every team except CHI first cup - it's not a real window.   

 

For me at least, i have the patience to see this through.   Never thought we'd have any chance at competing with this core, felt we'd be more like Detroit is.   The past is in the past - we should be concerned about the future.   TG results this year is 50% his roster (player) issues, 40% covid issues.   Left to the lions with a dagger and he's done admirably considering but some just don't get the game well enough.   

 

Anyways Deb and others, don't lose hope.   We've got a great group of young players, and a butt ton of money coming available over the next two years.   Thanks to JB doing the right thing and letting someone else commit to 80 million in contracts, this off season will be just fine.    

 

Next year playing "a team like that " in ANA, LA, SJ and maybe or maybe not Seattle will make it a much less bumpy road to the playoffs.    After that.... well maybe we should all be making a sacrifice to the hockey gods that JB stays the course and keeps our cap in-line.    Things aren't nearly as bad as some make it out to be.    It's only one covid year.   Luongo's team also went through this...it's not the end of the world as we know it like some seem to make it out to be.   

 

 

[IBatch]

45 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

problem for some is, if they aren't winning then they're not trying. you can only do what you can do. sometimes you play teams that are better than you.  i look for the team to have 3 scoring lines next year and one checking line. 3 scoring lines with at least 2 strong defensive players on each. if sutter is your 3c than that is a checking line. i want to see miller grooming podkolzin, horvat grooming lind and petey and boeser with a tougher winger.

this why i like the pearson signing so much. his defensive play takes some of the heavy lifting off bo.

winning is great but only a part of team play.

Wise post.   Team isn't garbage ... players and coaches aren't either.   We have 12 plus million sitting in the sidelines ... LE should do the honourable thing this off season and retire.   Would be the biggest thing he's done since he got here.  Would allow us to add another top six or top four D.   

 

Agree that medium and especially long term this team should be looking at creating three scoring lines with relatively similar 5 x 5 minutes.   We have the C's for it now.   Pearson for sure was a solid signing with this in mind.   Hogs and Podz pretty much is a clincher for this set-up.    A lot better then one scoring line ... Pearson, Horvat and LE right?   

 

And one energy shut down line with Sutter as the C would work.   PK specialists in the bottom six as well.  

 

AG and JV are both gone so the next group of tweeners get their chances. 

 

This is what i'm hoping for too.   We have Miller for two more years...use the guy.    Or trade him. 

 

Edit:  The extra cap space can be used for one winger and one top four D.   Or two top four D's ... either way this team is only going to get a lot better.    We haven't been blown out this year really.   A lot of close games.    If we had two more Miller or Schmidt/Myers types in the lineup all year we'd be ahead of MTL right now 

Edited May 5, 2021 by IBatch

[Bad_BOI_pete]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Boi, you got yourself into a pickle here 

 

I think to make it a fair comp, you need to look at Ullmark from two years ago, and look at each goalie at 25. Demko is clearly on a higher path at the same age. 

 

But having said that, a pairing of Demko-Ullmark would be pretty nice for us going forward. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

im pretty sure demko is going to get better, how much i don't know. i don't like arguing demko is only having a good year and not a great one

 

ullmark is only 18 months older than demko, if we compared there stats to when they were 1 year apart in age difference ullmark wins.

 

but i'm not going to pretend that demko is a elite goalie right now, he has all the tools to be one. but so far he has only shown he can string together a few weeks of dominace. yes this is a absurd year, but i would argue that our schedule is a lot easier on a goalie than a player. and our team is kinda poop soup, but is buffalos detroits or nj any different? the best goalies make the saves regardless of who's in front of them

 

and there is goalies who are the roughly the same age who have better records.

 

Shesterkin

Saros

Jarry

 

lets see what he can do next year, if he can get close to a .920 save percentage I would say he is in the discussion for top 10 in the league.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

48 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Demko hasn't played average, he has been wildly inconsistent is all. He started off terribly, and then lead the league an entire month (or 12 game sample). Who knows how much of that falloff since then is due to Covid? He was in a groove on par with his bubble performance. Average goaltending performances don't make people around the league talk. 

lets see how many vezina votes he gets

[mll]

9 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

i call bs, you need goals to win. when did this stop beinga team game? demko's play has been average this year for a starter.

Demko was saving the Canucks nearly 1 goal every 2 games before the outbreak according to Sportlogiq’s tracking technology.  His GAA was 0.49 above expected when taking into account environment.  A goalie’s workload is more challenging when a team struggles defensively.

 

Sportlogiq ranked the Canucks last in the league in expected goals against when their season resumed.  They were pretty much near bottom and even at times last in several main defensive categories then (and have probably dropped even further back now). 

 

-  31st in expected goals against

-  25th in actual goals against credit to Demko

-  31st in slot shots against

-  31st in slot pass completion against *

-  31st in rush chances against

-  27th in cycle chances against

-  30th in forecheck chances against

 

* Limiting the number of passes through the slot is tracked because the more the goalie has to move laterally harder the save.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

16 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

lets see how many vezina votes he gets

Miller was our team MVP last year, had a breakout year, anything but average. How many Hart trophy votes do you think he got? I don't think you're using the word average correctly.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Demko was saving the Canucks nearly 1 goal every 2 games before the outbreak according to Sportlogiq’s tracking technology.  His GAA was 0.49 above expected when taking into account environment.  A goalie’s workload is more challenging when a team struggles defensively.

 

Sportlogiq ranked the Canucks last in the league in expected goals against when their season resumed.  They were pretty much near bottom and even at times last in several main defensive categories then (and have probably dropped even further back now). 

 

-  31st in expected goals against

-  25th in actual goals against credit to Demko

-  31st in slot shots against

-  31st in slot pass completion against *

-  31st in rush chances against

-  27th in cycle chances against

-  30th in forecheck chances against

 

* Limiting the number of passes through the slot is tracked because the more the goalie has to move laterally harder the save.

he is also probably 31st in number of shots that are the least dangerous. the canucks also played better when demko was in net averaging something like 10% less shots against when he was in net.

 

stats are cool and you can make a story less bad or better by omitting other important stats. like if the nucks could actually hold onto the puck more often those stats you mentioned would naturally improve.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Pears]

7 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

your jumping in at the wrong time. thats how this whole argument started, i was talking about we might have got more wins if not for our lack of secondary scoring.

Who cares. The fact you’re trying to blame Demko for this season tells me you really need to educate yourself about hockey before coming to a discussion board acting like a know it all. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

5 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Miller was our team MVP last year, had a breakout year, anything but average. How many Hart trophy votes do you think he got? I don't think you're using the word average correctly.

well most of my posts i have been arguing he has been playing slightly better than average (for a starter), you just cherry picked the post i put the least amount of effort into.

 

am i a good guy again?

[Bad_BOI_pete]

Just now, Pears said:

Who cares. The fact you’re trying to blame Demko for this season tells me you really need to educate yourself about hockey before coming to a discussion board acting like a know it all. 

i am not blaming him, never had. im saying there is better goalies than demko, regardless of potential.

 

i am also saying the main culprit is offense, especially secondary scoring.