[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Edmonton Oilers l May 4, 7 p.m. l SNP | RINSE&REPEAT EDITION

[wallstreetamigo]

48 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

https://www.nhl.com/player/travis-green-8456430
 

idk, pretty good numbers and career for a 2nd round pick

Later in his career he adjusted to become a better overall player. He got his points but early on he was benched regularly for no commitment to defensive play and played a very selfish, one way game.

 

I grew up with Travis, know his family very well, played lots of hockey against him, and followed his career very closely as a result. Good player but entitlement issues and one way play were widely known.

 

I give him full credit for finally reinventing himself later in his career. But I still laugh anytime I hear him talk about how young players need to do this or that because I know he is talking from first hand experience of how not to be a team first pro.

 

Edit: He is a really good person by the way. A bit intense and stubborn as a coach but overall he is smart and has learned a lot from his own experience. He is a decent coach. I just dont think he is the right coach for where this team is at. I do think he will get another job if fired and based on how he has always been will learn from his time here and become a better coach. Sometimes coaches need to be fired to find that self reflection.

Edited May 5, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[-Vintage Canuck-]

5 minutes ago, gurn said:

Shame, as it looked a lot more intentional than Edler's kneeing penalty.

There have been players fined or suspended in the past for less serious incidents. It's unfortunate to not know what the standard is anymore.

[Pears]

31 minutes ago, lmm said:

consistancy has not been Demko's strong suit

Holding a steady save percentage above .910 while facing well over 30 shots a game seems pretty consistent to me. Again, goalies can‘t do **** if the team in front of them is giving up an absurd amount of scoring chances while generating little of their own at the other end. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

you are talking about Miller, right?

Miller is bad for it but its not just him. Its like an epidemic on this team.

[CaptKirk888]

12 hours ago, CptCanuck16 said:

You did see that Calgary (8th) and Winnipeg (9th) actually had more points then us right? So any other season we would have been out of the playoffs but since it was a COVID shortened season the league changed the tabulation based on games played and gifted us a shot. My comment still stands. Nice try though. 

You don’t have a valid point. The Canucks had a higher winning % than both those teams.

[tas]

11 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

oh i see......... you are correct. how clueless i am that the 28/89 goalies that make up the positive in a stat that should be zeroed out doesnt even come close.

and there is only 11/89 goalies that have a better gsax than gsaa. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. i smell microwaved fish

 

the positive only attribute for +146.9 gsax

the negative only attribute for -388.49 gsax

 

i guess the goalies that are expected to make those saves are in the khl or ahl?

 

i know the reason why the stat doesn't zero out, i wonder if you do? i'll give you a hint, the goals scored this year only factor in about 10-15% of the xga

 

ugh. you're not getting it. I'm not interested in participating anymore. you go ahead thinking that ullmark is a better goalie than demko, it makes no difference. 

[lmm]

8 minutes ago, Pears said:

Holding a steady save percentage above .910 while facing well over 30 shots a game seems pretty consistent to me. Again, goalies can‘t do **** if the team in front of them is giving up an absurd amount of scoring chances while generating little of their own at the other end. 

14 games with a save % below .900

started the season with 16 goals in 3 games 

last 3 games 14 goals

he has been pretty hot and cold

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

7 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

i "cherrypicked" the one post i got a notification for because you replied directly to me? Slightly better than average but dominated the division (and the league statistically) for a calendar month. I would love to know what you consider average. Demko has been inconsistent but when he has been on, has been a Vezina contender. It was just so short-lived due to covid that it hasn't gained any traction. It is what it is. He's proved to everybody that he's an elite goaltender and a unanimous starter for next season. I don't consider that average. 

well in the consideration that he is in the top 15 of the best goalies in the world he is elite. but in the nhl he is slightly better than average for a starter.

considering he is paid about average and not 8+million dollars benning didn't think he was elite either. nor did demko, cause he agreed to 5 million too.

 

it's always feast or famine with demko, not something you can say about the true nhl elite. demko hasn't even played 40+ games in his career yet, book is still out on him.

 

luongo when he was 24 played 72 games had a .931 save percentage 2.43gaa and still only had a 25-33-14(ties) record

luongo when he was 25 played 75 games had a .914 save percentage 2.93gaa and had a 35-30-9(otl) record

 

if goalies were so important to a team florida would have made the playoffs when luongo was 24.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

31 minutes ago, tas said:

ugh. you're not getting it. I'm not interested in participating anymore. you go ahead thinking that ullmark is a better goalie than demko, it makes no difference. 

i do get it. the gsax stat is based upon accumulated goals scored from the past 10 seasons when they started collecting the stats. Demko is really good at saving goals from areas where the goals came from the past ten years. is it me or has the powerplay not drastically changed in the past 10 years?

 

this year for the gsaa which is based off real goals this year he ranks 27/89 goalies. sv% 33/89

Edited May 5, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[canuktravella]

11 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

and the rest of the year? how many player of the week awards?

 

remember luongo,roloson,mason had some great seasons with bad  teams.

 

demko has had a slightly better than average year for a starter.

 

 

 your clueless bud if u think demko is the problem if not for him wed be worst than the sabres by a large margin our bottom six had 4 points combined in 84 combined games at the moment you think  brodeur or roy would  have any better record on this team very doubtful

[Bad_BOI_pete]

35 minutes ago, tas said:

ugh. you're not getting it. I'm not interested in participating anymore. you go ahead thinking that ullmark is a better goalie than demko, it makes no difference. 

once again this not baseball, hockey strategy changes drastically over time. expected stats average them over the course of a long period of time.

 

its one of the reasons jordie benn was highly ranked on our team in goals above replacement.

 

baseball doesn't change they aren't inventing new strats so xwins is a great stat. for basketball and especially football and hockey it's basically a stat that proves how much the games change year over year. that is the only way you can factor in that 241 goals are unacounted for.

[canuktravella]

4 hours ago, BarnBurner said:

Exactly. Juolevi is already showing he's going to be a rock-steady player. Add to that Lind, Rathbone, Gadjovich, and even a player like Jasek. And that's not even mentioning Podkolzin next year. Give these young guns a shot. There's at least 3 or 4 players that will become NHL regulars. 

agreed im pumped about jasek being a 4th line center for us  kids got takent for the bigs time to let him play

[Bad_BOI_pete]

17 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 your clueless bud if u think demko is the problem if not for him wed be worst than the sabres by a large margin our bottom six had 4 points combined in 84 combined games at the moment you think  brodeur or roy would  have any better record on this team very doubtful

edit: remove insult, y'all are making me angry.

 

I am arguing that the offense is the problem!!!!!!!! i'm saying demko is a top 10-15 starting goalie. demko is a great thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im saying demko is ranking 10-15/89 goalies.

 

if we had the puck more often and finished more often his stats would be better, i am arguing his stats would be better if that happened. 10-15 would be between .919-.917

 

your all so angry you cant even realize what i'm saying.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Darth Canuck]

I’m seeing 3 things with our Canucks 

 

1: fatigue.
Fatigue is a condition further than just being tired. Everything gets affected, hand-eye, reflexes, thought processes, endurance, etc. It takes more than just “a good sleep” to recover, it takes some solid rest. With covid and the grinding schedule, I don’t see any change in this. No retribution on Larrsen? Ever been in a fight? It’s exhausting. 

 

2: lack of practice.

I’ve stated this before, Green has had to make a very difficult decision, rest or practice. He’s chosen rest, and none of us can critique that decision unless we’ve personally gone through what the players, coaches and other staff affected have gone through. And some days are travel days, where a practice is not possible. You can see the lack of practice on failed break outs, system break downs, poor power play and penalty killing. I don’t think there’s another coach in the NHL who could do any better given everything the team is going through.

 

3: confidence 

after the oilers were gifted their first 2 goals (give me pass from Miller and a “penalty” on Pearson), you could read the body language. The “aw here we go again” slouch. I’m actually impressed at the effort given before the bottom falls out. Im suspecting the boys want to win, want to play hard, but a small part possibly wants this crappy season to just end.

 

So is this all Bennings fault? Players like Vesey and Boyd were brought in to add depth. So many injuries, Gaudette trade, and Jake, well, all these depth guys are being activated, with no practice, and a compacted schedule, and we’re seeing the results. 

 

Is this all Greens fault? As I mentioned, I don’t think there’s a coach in the NHL who could do better with the crappy hand the Canucks have been dealt. Go ahead with your fire green crap, no one would do better.

 

 

I’m just as frustrated as everyone else with the current situation, but I refuse to go down the road of wanting someone fired, name calling, or general negativity. There’s enough of that in the world right now.

 

I still believe (just maybe not this year)! Go Canucks!!!

[wallstreetamigo]

I can solve this demko vs ullmark battle of the apparently average and unimportant (Demko) vs the Vezina quality game saver (Ullmark).

 

Would anyone trade Demko straight up for Ullmark?

 

Ya thats what I thought.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Petey_BOI said:

oh i see......... you are correct. how clueless i am that the 28/89 goalies that make up the positive in a stat that should be zeroed out doesnt even come close.

and there is only 11/89 goalies that have a better gsax than gsaa. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. i smell microwaved fish

 

the positive only attribute for +146.9 gsax

the negative only attribute for -388.49 gsax

 

i guess the goalies that are expected to make those saves are in the khl or ahl?

 

i know the reason why the stat doesn't zero out, i wonder if you do? i'll give you a hint, the goals scored this year only factor in about 10-15% of the xga

 

It’s never going to zero out.  Each game has different plays and shots happening.  

Using historical data they have build models that come up with an average expected goal for a shot taken from a certain location and within a certain context.  So within a game, each time a shot is taken they compare it’s outcome to the expected goal they have for that location/context.

 

Tracking technology have in general more accurate models because they can measure how often a goal has been scored within a certain context.  

 

The public models like Evolving-hockey or Natural Stat Trick have access to the NHLs in arena data.  They get the coordinates of the shot but the NHL isn’t tracking passing plays, screens, goalie positioning etc which tracking technology can do.  Their models have to make certain assumptions. 

 

[canuktravella]

4 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

edit: remove insult, y'all are making me angry.

 

I am arguing that the offense is the problem!!!!!!!! i'm saying demko is a top 10-15 starting goalie. demko is a great thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im saying demko is ranking 10-15/89 goalies.

 

if we had the puck more often and finished more often his stats would be better, i am arguing his stats would be better if that happened. 10-15 would be between .919-.917

 

your all so angry you cant even realize what i'm saying.

 we all know the team sucks  3/5th of team  shouldnt even have a contract

sutter, eriksson, beagle, roussel, macewen, vesey, boyd, pearson, edler, myers, schmidt, holtby virtanen.   all dont earn their cap hits. That might be the coaching fault. Only players on team that earn their wages are motte, petey, horvat, miler, boeser, hamonic, juolevi hughes.  I can see miller wanting out at end  of yr  so  trading him for a third line center and a 1st might have to be a option.  Schmidt as well is 30  he might neeed to be traded for a first and a decent dman prospect hes up there in age once we completing.  

[Bad_BOI_pete]

20 minutes ago, mll said:

It’s never going to zero out.  Each game has different plays and shots happening.  

Using historical data they have build models that come up with an average expected goal for a shot taken from a certain location and within a certain context.  So within a game, each time a shot is taken they compare it’s outcome to the expected goal they have for that location/context.

 

Tracking technology have in general more accurate models because they can measure how often a goal has been scored within a certain context.  

 

The public models like Evolving-hockey or Natural Stat Trick have access to the NHLs in arena data.  They get the coordinates of the shot but the NHL isn’t tracking passing plays, screens, goalie positioning etc which tracking technology can do.  Their models have to make certain assumptions. 

 

it would zero out if they used current data from each calendar year. but that defeats the whole purpose.

 

do you have access to these stats?

 

buffalo was in the middle of a 18 game winless streak during your post that you provided as evidence also demko just came off his hot streak. 5/6 of his last games are pretty poopy. 23ga in 6 games

 

what was buffalo ranked for slot shots, slot pass percentage% rush scoring chances and all the other stats you mentioned on april 14th.

 

stats are not very good when they are biased to make demko look better. which imo you have done with ullmark and shesterkin(who has some really good stats in his last 8 games.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[lmm]

10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Miller is bad for it but its not just him. Its like an epidemic on this team.

I blame Jimmy Vesey

j/k

[wallstreetamigo]

Our team plays worse defensively than pretty much any other team. They cant sustain offensive pressure or score goals.

 

But sure, lets blame the goalies for not stealing every gsme for a terrible roster that is coached to play like a u15 house team.