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[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Edmonton Oilers l May 6, 6 p.m. l SNP | ROAD TO 100 EDITION

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7 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Be sure nice to limit Mcdavid to 2 or 3 points on Saturday. Not looking forward to seeing that reel for the next year 

24 years old.... What happens when he hits his prime? Limit the freak of nature to 5-6 points I guess. 

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I thought Green did a good job of spreading around the ice time.  Everyone got at least 10 mins except Graovac, with 9:40

 

Was surprised to see Highmore and Vesey with over 15 mins each (although both do kill penalties. ..... Vesey had 5:14 of PK time)

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Only thing missing tonight: I would have loved to see someone give McD a good hit on that last Oiler PP.  looked like he was lined up for a good one, but the Canuck made the responsible defensive play instead.

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16 minutes ago, Googlie said:

I thought Green did a good job of spreading around the ice time.  Everyone got at least 10 mins except Graovac, with 9:40

 

Was surprised to see Highmore and Vesey with over 15 mins each (although both do kill penalties. ..... Vesey had 5:14 of PK time)

I was ready to praise Vesey during our PK but then he went ahead and chipped the puck right on Smith's tape, who made that beautiful pass to spring the Oilers on a break that ended up in our net.  

 

Vesey might turn out to be one of those guys that coaches love but fans hate.  Don't see why he's getting the ice time besides the fact that I guess we got no one else. 

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13 minutes ago, Googlie said:

I thought Green did a good job of spreading around the ice time.  Everyone got at least 10 mins except Graovac, with 9:40

 

Was surprised to see Highmore and Vesey with over 15 mins each (although both do kill penalties. ..... Vesey had 5:14 of PK time)

Yeah - not much choice to spread it around - Miller (21:06)  the only forward over 19 minutes...second to only Edler in pk ice time (5:31).

Miller is typically the team's #5 pk forward - all four of the top 4 are out of the lineup (Beagle, Motte, Sutter and Roussel).

Horvat a bit low at less than 18 - but he must be absolutely gassed at this point (and does not kill penalties..)

 

Gotta play someone - and with 8 replacement players in the lineup, a few of them are going to see 15 minutes.

I thought Highmore had a very good game / earned the minutes.

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1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I'm not pretending to be from the future - so I don't make silly claims like "Hoglander will not be more than a 3rd liner" - or 'Lind will never amount to anything at the NHL level'.

 

My refuting your take - which is based on the fact that you don't know the future (and have a highly questionable take on the present) - does not require me to counterpoint yours, as if my position is necessarily that Hoglander will remain a top 6 or be a top line forward.   It may be worth noting though - that he already is a second line forward at the NHL level - as a 20 year old - based on the assessment of people far more 'hockey intelligent' than you or I.

 

If you want some objective outcomes to make the case that he's worthy of the position/role he's playing:

 

1) he plays on a second line - one that gets 47.4% ozone starts - that plays a lot of matchup minutes against opposition top 6 - and has a corsi of 50.4%.

2) 10 goals and 24 pts in 48 games - translates into a 17 goal, 41 pt per 82 game rookie season - in the midst of a season in which his team struggled, and went through an outbreak that cost them a month spent in recovery from illness.  That is while playing 15 minutes/night (with one of his linemates arguably underproducing / at 15 pts in 43 games.

3) he lead the team with 36 takeaways and a +23 turnover differential

4) with the exception of 1pt on the powerplay, all his production has come at 5 on 5 - again, in not particularly sheltered, or 'easy' minutes - with both below 50% ozone starts, and strong quality of competition, night in night out.

5) beyond the 'possession'/shot differential metrics above, he also has some of the best goal metrics on the team.

 

Nothing there indicates a player that you should 'expect' to downtick - in fact, almost all those indicators would suggest a player that is headed in the opposite direction than the '3rd line' - a player that has shown a solid two-way game, that had produced in harder minutes than the vast majority of young, 20 year olds play in their rookie season.  But those are just the objective outcomes - I'm not going to pretend to be from the future - I'll leave that part to you - and wadr - not take it seriously. If I were to look at the above and conclude that 'he'll never amount to more than a 3rd liner' - then I may as well jump to the same pretentious assumption about last year's first overall pick based on a rookie season small sample - who has 20 pts in 54 games, inferior 'possession' outcomes, inferior on ice goal metrics, in 'easier' minutes, on a team that has had a better season than this team has, with linemates who have outproduced Hoglander's....

 

 

 

I look at those stats and you look at those stats and we come to different conclusions and yet they prove only my conclusion.

 

1)Corsi is High. What does it mean he is good defensively

 

2)Ozone time is 47.5 what does it mean. Well could it be that because he plays on the 1st and 2nd line that he gets more offensive starts. which leads me to his point totals impressive yes. But inflated most likely. What do I mean by inflated. I would think that most people would agree that most offensive players or true top 6 players would find away to produce if they were on the third or forth line they also tend to make their line mates better. So we have to ask ourselves is he a .5 pts a game player. I do not believe I can see in the future so lets look at the past. When he plays in international competition aka with the best in the Sweden he seems to produce at a point a game. But in the SHL he had 14 pts in 23 games and 16pts in 41 games. So he did manage a little better than .5 pts a game in his final year in the SHL Keep in mind that is his +1 draft year. But I think most would agree that NHL and SHL is not comparable that the NHL is a harder league. What also can be compared is SHL to SHL players guess what the Canucks have another past SHL player in Pettersson who is a top 6 player. Pettersson draft +1 year had 56pts in 44 games. Not a perfect comparison as I am guessing you are not calling Hoglander a top 3 or first liner. What this does all show though is when he plays with better players or the best players in a league he improves (good on him for taking is opportunities and running with them.) What it does show is he does not make players around him better. Where you might be right is he might actually have to play in the  top 6 for him to be useful (if that's what you want in a top 6 forward we have differnent definitions on top 6 forwards and this is where we might actually disagree with one another in a more fundamental way). For me if Hoglander has to play with top players or not produce, his value to the team is greatest now and he should be traded in my opinion because when it comes to the playoffs no team can afford to care any player.

 

3) could Pearson be under producing because of Hoglander. Where the focus should be on offense Hoglander is playing to much defense. Sutter and Beagle do that they are where offense goes to die. Hoglander through out his career has always gotten more goals then assists or on par with one another. What can that tell us. Most top 6 forwards rake up assists far more then they do goals. Unless you have a pure scorer does Hoglander come of as a pure goal scorer. Or does he lack in playmaking skills.  

 

4) your 3rd point again proves he is a good defensive player. So we ask is it suited for a top 6 role or a third line player.

 

5) your 5th point is interesting, producing on 5-5 often proves a player has a good two way game. But 1pt on the PP. lets look at that who does he play with and how many mins per game.  1st he doesn't play on the 1st unit so he isn't playing with the best players on the team. I believe I already said something about that above and how he plays with certain players. He averages 1.24 mins a game 6th on the team in forwards just behind Pearson. Interesting there is Pearson's name again lets compare last year and this year for Pearson on the  PP 44game 2goals 3 pts 1:52 mins per game this year. Last year 69 games 3 goals 10 pts 1:35 mins per game. The difference this year to last year on the PP unit Hoglander. The PP is where they have the man advantage and the kid can not produce. He actually might be making it worse.

 

All your stats say this kid should be on the third line and PK not the the 2 unit PP or top 6. If he can not produce on the third line he should not even be on the team never mind the top 6 forward group.

 

 

Edited by Arrow 1983
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3 hours ago, Devron44 said:

People are strange. Like who gives what Taj thinks lol. What a joker 

 

He would have posted something of the opposite but with the same effect if the Canucks lost 

He's more concerned with growing his eye care business. Seems to want to also paint himself as an insider. Perhaps a relation to Rick Dhaliwal? I know I've heard Rick pumping Taj's business before. 

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1 hour ago, Googlie said:

I thought Green did a good job of spreading around the ice time.  Everyone got at least 10 mins except Graovac, with 9:40

 

Was surprised to see Highmore and Vesey with over 15 mins each (although both do kill penalties. ..... Vesey had 5:14 of PK time)

Very happy to see the kids finally get a chance to play this season instead of the old useless deadwood bottom 6 players on our 3rd and 4th lines, which all have to go along with Edler and lazy Jake.(unless he ends up in prison) after this season. 

 

I'm sure our new coach next year will see the advantages of playing some of these young, energetic, hungry, young players before putting those unmotivated, slow, boat-anchors on the Ice like Roussel, Sutter,  Motte and Lazy Jake to name a few....all of which are instantly replaceable at a fraction of the cost - to boot!

 

Looking forward to next season but in the meantime let the youth play!

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9 hours ago, Locke Lamora said:

Well you know that wherever we finish we will drop the maximum number of positions we can, so yeah I see us finishing 8th and picking 11th or so. Not because of EVIL BETTMAN but CANUCK LUCK (defined as a complete lack of luck).

 

I will never actively root for losses. That invites bad karma. But when the losses come in a season like this the draft ramifications can ease the pain significantly.

Look at the drafts we slipped ... one was OJ which sucked ... but we made up with it with EP and QHs and Podz ...  so yes bad luck, good karma or something.  

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13 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

your comparing apples to oranges here, and that comes from a guy that gets called out for cherry picking.

 

let me show you how to really cherry pick.

 

LONG READ TL DR: when comparing era to era lemiuex faced easier competition and mcdavid is facing better goalies now than the rest of the league and from 2000-2001

 

for gp i choose 10 min because I want to include the backup for both era's.

 

2020-2021

 

above .930 3

above .920 11

above .910 28

above .905 39

 

2000-2001

 

above .930 0

above .920 8

above .910 18

above. 905 27

 

as someone who also watched hockey back in the day of 20 years ago, i'm really suprised you forgot that the east let the most goals in by a huge margin 9% more actually

and the division pittsburgh played in let in on average 1% more goals than the rest of the conference or in other words 10% more than the west. (NI PITT)

 

considering the games played goes like 6x4 for your division and 10*4 conference and 1 about game vs the west. Lemieux had the easy life.

 

and heres the numbers for 2020-2021 

 

Central 1228

North    1244 north has 2.5% harder time scoring than the east and about 1.5% easier than the central and north combined

West     1221

East      1276

 

and the north (NI EDM) faces about 7% more shots than the rest of the league. so it seems that the goalies are indeed better than the rest of the league, they just cant stop mcdavid.         

You made me do it.  Using your own arguments on Lemieux’s easy time in the east. (You brought GA to a sv% fight)

 

East averages  01-02 (No Pit)

Sv% .8991 (League .901)

GAA: 2.816

 

North averages 20-21 (No Edm)

rest of the league has no influence on McDs season 

Sv% .9017 (League .904)

GAA 2.991


00-01

McD 90.6 pts in 52 games 1.743,ppg spectacular!

Mario 76 pts in 43 games 1.767 ppg

mind numbing in context of being 35 (credit you for the correction) not playing for 3 years and nagging injuries that forced him retire

20-21

McD 96 pts in 52 games 1.842 ppg

Mario 80.5 pts in 43 games 1.872 ppg

 

As I said previously it’s a wash and in my mind, on a single season comparison basis, what Mario did was more impressive. 24 year old healthy Conner is comparable to a 35 year old battered Mario.  I take a 24 year old healthy Mario over Conner, at least until Conner shows he can sustain it over the next 10 years 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, bbllpp said:

You made me do it.  Using your own arguments on Lemieux’s easy time in the east. (You brought GA to a sv% fight)

 

East averages  01-02 (No Pit)

Sv% .8991 (League .901)

GAA: 2.816

 

North averages 20-21 (No Edm)

rest of the league has no influence on McDs season 

Sv% .9017 (League .904)

GAA 2.991


00-01

McD 90.6 pts in 52 games 1.743,ppg spectacular!

Mario 76 pts in 43 games 1.767 ppg

mind numbing in context of being 35 (credit you for the correction) not playing for 3 years and nagging injuries that forced him retire

20-21

McD 96 pts in 52 games 1.842 ppg

Mario 80.5 pts in 43 games 1.872 ppg

 

As I said previously it’s a wash and in my mind, on a single season comparison basis, what Mario did was more impressive. 24 year old healthy Conner is comparable to a 35 year old battered Mario.  I take a 24 year old healthy Mario over Conner, at least until Conner shows he can sustain it over the next 10 years 

 

 

 

im sorry why does mcdavid lose points? mijdsninouqidbnjuqbeoufdnbqouudahnouquehndfliuuqhanwefoidjqoeirrfnoiqejrnfpiqeo

 

this a joke right, because mcdavid faced better goalies he is punished or lemiuex is awarded?

 

 

Edited by Petey_BOI
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