HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: in the pre-season I made a mess arguing about LTIR. A few experts explained it to me i think MLL was his name. if you want to understand it better go to capfriendly. just remember that the injured players salray doesn't disappear, it is replaced Correct. However, it is replaced by being able to overspend. So Ferland's salary stays in place, but it allows the Canucks to replace his salary with the equivalent amount over and above the upper cap limit. A simple example is if the Canucks spent EXACTLY to $81.5M which INCLUDES Ferland's salary. Then the Canucks place him on LTIR. Now the Canucks can replace his $3.5M with another $3.5M worth of player(s). So the net result is the cap that the Canucks have to work with is $81.5 + 3.5 = $85M (the new ACSL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, HKSR said: Correct. However, it is replaced by being able to overspend. So Ferland's salary stays in place, but it allows the Canucks to replace his salary with the equivalent amount over and above the upper cap limit. A simple example is if the Canucks spent EXACTLY to $81.5M which INCLUDES Ferland's salary. Then the Canucks place him on LTIR. Now the Canucks can replace his $3.5M with another $3.5M worth of player(s). So the net result is the cap that the Canucks have to work with is $81.5 + 3.5 = $85M (the new ACSL). incorrect, ferland salary is calculated before opening night.in fact his salary always counts against our cap, we simply gain a replacement. in your world having 20 players on LTIR worth 81.5 million means you can have 163 million dollars of players on the roster which is not true. go peruse capfriendly no ones active roster is over 81.5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: incorrect, ferland salary is calculated before opening night.in fact his salary always counts against our cap, we simply gain a replacement. in your world having 20 players on LTIR worth 81.5 million means you can have 163 million dollars of players on the roster which is not true. go peruse capfriendly no ones active roster is over 81.5m Lol, I dunno how else to explain it to you. You still don't quite understand all this... Here, take a look at the Leafs: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs Now tell me what their projected cap hit is (yup, you got it, this number is the one that includes the LTIR as of today). EDIT: Here's the Canucks... https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks Notice how much higher the number is than the $81.5M cap limit. Edited May 10, 2021 by HKSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: incorrect, ferland salary is calculated before opening night.in fact his salary always counts against our cap, we simply gain a replacement. in your world having 20 players on LTIR worth 81.5 million means you can have 163 million dollars of players on the roster which is not true. go peruse capfriendly no ones active roster is over 81.5m which means that if ferland and beagle are on LTIR we will have to be under 87.5 million before opening season. every dollar we are under we lose in available capspace until they are reactivated. Also rookies and over agers joining the team after opening night will have to calculate thier bonuses into thier cap hit. it's not a good thing to have players on LTIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: which means that if ferland and beagle are on LTIR we will have to be under 87.5 million before opening season. every dollar we are under we lose in available capspace until they are reactivated. Also rookies and over agers joining the team after opening night will have to calculate thier bonuses into thier cap hit. it's not a good thing to have players on LTIR Yup, I agree on your first sentence, but I think we all know those 2 are likely never playing another game again in the NHL. So it's a safe bet to utilize the LTIR as we see fit. I think your concern is that if a player is reactivated, we don't have the cap for it. Correct? The Canucks will be well under $87.5M based on my scenario. PS - Bonuses are not a concern for opening night. They are an impact later on, and sometimes that's an issue which results in cap overages that impact the next season's cap (definitely not a good thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, HKSR said: Lol, I dunno how else to explain it to you. You still don't quite understand all this... Here, take a look at the Leafs: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs Now tell me what their projected cap hit is (yup, you got it, this number is the one that includes the LTIR as of today). EDIT: Here's the Canucks... https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks Notice how much higher the number is than the $81.5M cap limit. well, there active roster calculates to under 81.5m so i see they are not circumventing the cap. cap space is a weird thing everyone starts at 81.5 million at the beginning of the season, why toronto's is 84.5 is because of ryley nash's 3million. if they went above that during the season they would be fined hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: Yup, I agree on your first sentence, but I think we all know those 2 are likely never playing another game again in the NHL. So it's a safe bet to utilize the LTIR as we see fit. I think your concern is that if a player is reactivated, we don't have the cap for it. Correct? The Canucks will be well under $87.5M based on my scenario. PS - Bonuses are not a concern for opening night. They are an impact later on, and sometimes that's an issue which results in cap overages that impact the next season's cap (definitely not a good thing). your scenario said you wanted to trade beagle and roussel, i said that was interesting, because who wants them. you back tracked said beagle can go on ltir, which is fine. but roussel would have to be traded for a retained salary or maybe needed a 1st round pick thrown in. LTIR IS NOT A GOOD THING TO BE RELYING ON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: well, there active roster calculates to under 81.5m so i see they are not circumventing the cap. cap space is a weird thing everyone starts at 81.5 million at the beginning of the season, why toronto's is 84.5 is because of ryley nash's 3million. if they went above that during the season they would be fined hard. Huh? Ok, I wasn't gonna make it this obvious, but here is Tampa Bay: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/lightning Look at their projected cap hit... nearly $99M... y'know why? They've got nearly $25.5M in LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Petey_BOI said: your scenario said you wanted to trade beagle and roussel, i said that was interesting, because who wants them. you back tracked said beagle can go on ltir, which is fine. but roussel would have to be traded for a retained salary or maybe needed a 1st round pick thrown in. LTIR IS NOT A GOOD THING TO BE RELYING ON Nope, I never backtracked. I talked about Ferland's LTIR. Not Beagle. Go back and take a look Funny thing is, another poster mentioned Beagle, and I forgot about his LTIR. Basically, any retention to get rid of Roussel could easily absorbed due to the Ferland and Beagle LTIR. Edited May 10, 2021 by HKSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: your scenario said you wanted to trade beagle and roussel, i said that was interesting, because who wants them. you back tracked said beagle can go on ltir, which is fine. but roussel would have to be traded for a retained salary or maybe needed a 1st round pick thrown in. LTIR IS NOT A GOOD THING TO BE RELYING ON No, it's not a good thing to rely on it, but when you have it, you make use of it if you need to. Ferland and Beagle are more than likely never coming back. So they need to be replaced. Hence, why not spend the room available up to the ACSL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, HKSR said: Huh? Ok, I wasn't gonna make it this obvious, but here is Tampa Bay: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/lightning Look at their projected cap hit... nearly $99M... y'know why? They've got nearly $25.5M in LTIR. you are just not getting it. their active roster+penalties is below 81.5m the other 18m is LTIR. everyone starts the season either under the salary cap. or under the offseason upper limit, which will be reduced to under 81.5 with LTIR I believe tampa circumvented the cap this season along with Chicago and maybe a few others. we will see if they are penalized. but every single game this year the active roster was below 81.5 million . Edited May 10, 2021 by Petey_BOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Huh? He's included in the cap hit. He's down in the taxi squad area of the spreadsheet. I saw. Misread it against your third comment. Loui for a bag of pucks haha Edited May 10, 2021 by DSVII 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Petey_BOI said: you are just not getting it. there active roster+penalties is below 81.5m the other 18m is replacements. everyone starts the season either under the salary cap. or under the offseason upper limit, which will be reduced to under 81.5 with LTIR I believe tampa circumvented the cap this season along with Chicago and maybe a few others. we will see if they are penalized. but every single game this year the active roster was below 81.5 million . Ok, I don't think I'm gonna get through to you. You talk about LTIR experts, well you happen to be talking to one of them lol! https://couchguysports.com/the-nhl-ltir-explained/ Read this article again in detail. Here's the offseason piece: "As I said earlier, the LTIR can be used in the offseason. On top of that, it does not result in the team getting less relief. The only difference between using the LTIR during the offseason and the regular season is during the offseason, teams also get the extra 10% cushion that every team is allowed to exceed the cap by until the first day of the season. On the first day of the season, the team’s ACSL and LTIR relief pools are recalculated minus the 10% offseason cushion. So, it’s really no different. Now, to make sure it’s really sunk in, say it with me: the LTIR can be used in the offseason, and it does not result in the team getting less relief overall." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, HKSR said: Ok, I don't think I'm gonna get through to you. You talk about LTIR experts, well you happen to be talking to one of them lol! https://couchguysports.com/the-nhl-ltir-explained/ Read this article again in detail. Here's the offseason piece: "As I said earlier, the LTIR can be used in the offseason. On top of that, it does not result in the team getting less relief. The only difference between using the LTIR during the offseason and the regular season is during the offseason, teams also get the extra 10% cushion that every team is allowed to exceed the cap by until the first day of the season. On the first day of the season, the team’s ACSL and LTIR relief pools are recalculated minus the 10% offseason cushion. So, it’s really no different. Now, to make sure it’s really sunk in, say it with me: the LTIR can be used in the offseason, and it does not result in the team getting less relief overall." yes it does. if you start the season using LTIR your max cap will be 81.5m + relief (say hawryluk) if you do not use the full relief you will start the season with a ACSL less than 81.5m what ever the difference is. the canucks did a really good job and our acsl is $81,490,212. anyways have a good day = = = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 8 hours ago, HKSR said: Brock's was $5.875 in a non-covid world. Petey and Hughes at $6.5M in a covid world with a flat cap for at least a couple more years is more than realistic. I dunno of any players that signed $8M bridge deals lmao Matt Barzal - 3 yrs @ $7.0M AAV. Gonna go out on a limb and say that Pettersson and Hughes signs for same "bridge" contracts. Pat Brisson agent..Barzal, Pettersson and Hughes all clients of superagent Brisson. Easy enough to connect the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 17 hours ago, iinatcc said: 6.5 Million for Pettersson and Hughes as a bridge deal? Consider how much Brock's bridge deal was I think it's going to be at least 8 million to sign the both on 3 year deals. Nope. Deals made three years ago were made with the assumption the cap would keep going up. Bettman has already said the cap won't go up significantly for the length of the current CBA...there is a one million a year clause which won't be hard to meet - that's the cap going up...that's it. To get to 8 they'd have to sign for 8 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, IBatch said: Nope. Deals made three years ago were made with the assumption the cap would keep going up. Bettman has already said the cap won't go up significantly for the length of the current CBA...there is a one million a year clause which won't be hard to meet - that's the cap going up...that's it. To get to 8 they'd have to sign for 8 years. Agreed. But both Petey and Hughes will sign bridge contracts. Something around 5-6 x 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: Agreed. But both Petey and Hughes will sign bridge contracts. Something around 5-6 x 3 QHs should be a little lower ... EPs a little higher. QHs 5.5 x 3 is where it should be, EP i could see get 6.5 x 3 ... but that's about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 24 minutes ago, IBatch said: QHs should be a little lower ... EPs a little higher. QHs 5.5 x 3 is where it should be, EP i could see get 6.5 x 3 ... but that's about it. Someone from the media suggested with the same agents maybe EP and QH will work to have identical deals like how Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane did their's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, iinatcc said: Someone from the media suggested with the same agents maybe EP and QH will work to have identical deals like how Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane did their's Yep i've heard that a few times. Difference is those guys were killing it back then and won a cup their last year on their ELCs, so don't expect a massive deal because it's not coming, even if we didn't have covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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