[Rumour] Eichel wants out of Buffalo. Says there is disconnect with organization.

[JM_]

13 hours ago, Alflives said:

The guy has a herniated disc in his neck, and the team won’t let him get it fixed.  That’s just crazy!  The pain he must be living with (and other symptoms, like numbness) would be awful. 

I know how p.o.'d I'd be if my employer was preventing a surgery I needed. 

 

I think Bettman is going to have to get involved at some point here, I don't think they really want this going to court. 

[mll]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I know how p.o.'d I'd be if my employer was preventing a surgery I needed. 

 

I think Bettman is going to have to get involved at some point here, I don't think they really want this going to court. 

There's a formal process that is in the CBA.  Beat writer John Vogel says that the NHLPA can file on his behalf a complaint regarding the violation of the standard of care to the NHL/NHLPA Joint Health and Safety Committee.

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

There's a formal process that is in the CBA.  Beat writer John Vogel says that the NHLPA can file on his behalf a complaint regarding the violation of the standard of care to the NHL/NHLPA Joint Health and Safety Committee.

 

thanks mll. It certainly feels to me like thats a possible next step. 

 

I think Buffalo has really mishandled this thing. The only way to salvage value now is to let JE have the surgery and see if he can be fully healthy again. Its not like he needs to prove his value on the ice. 

 

I wonder if this comes down to an insurance issue... maybe JE's salary isn't covered if he takes the surgery route. Maybe thats whats driving this. 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[mll]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thanks mll. It certainly feels to me like thats a possible next step. 

 

I think Buffalo has really mishandled this thing. The only way to salvage value now is to let JE have the surgery and see if he can be fully healthy again. Its not like he needs to prove his value on the ice. 

 

I wonder if this comes down to an insurance issue... maybe JE's salary isn't covered if he takes the surgery route. Maybe thats whats driving this. 

 

It's a surgery that has never been performed before on an NHLer and Buffalo is not comfortable with it.

 

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, mll said:

It's a surgery that has never been performed before on an NHLer and Buffalo is not comfortable with it.

 

I understand that, but if JE isn't healing, and that sounds like the case, what choice is there? 

[mll]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I understand that, but if JE isn't healing, and that sounds like the case, what choice is there? 

 

Buffalo probably wants to delay and let his new team decide but if surgery is inevitable would seem that Buffalo would be in favour of the more traditional fusion approach vs artificial disk replacement  Didn't listen but from the synopsis by Sportsnet:  

 

Dr. Chad Prusmack is a neurosurgeon based in Colorado who has provided Jack Eichel with a recommendation to correct a herniated disc in his neck by proceeding with artificial disc replacement surgery. Jeff and Elliotte chat with Dr. Prusmack about the procedure, the recovery and the risk associated with the surgery, and why this surgery would be more beneficial long-term rather than an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion (ACDF).

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Buffalo probably wants to delay and let his new team decide but if surgery is inevitable would seem that Buffalo would be in favour of the more traditional fusion approach vs artificial disk replacement  Didn't listen but from the synopsis by Sportsnet:  

 

Dr. Chad Prusmack is a neurosurgeon based in Colorado who has provided Jack Eichel with a recommendation to correct a herniated disc in his neck by proceeding with artificial disc replacement surgery. Jeff and Elliotte chat with Dr. Prusmack about the procedure, the recovery and the risk associated with the surgery, and why this surgery would be more beneficial long-term rather than an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion (ACDF).

 

What I find bothersome tho is Buffalo being able to direct JE's care. That should be solely between Jack and his doctor. Imo anyway. 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

What I find bothersome tho is Buffalo being able to direct JE's care. That should be solely between Jack and his doctor. Imo anyway. 

I mean unless Eichel is willing to forfeit his salary until and if he recovers from the surgery. I can see why teams would have a say in the surgery. So what if this surgery doesn't go as plan and he doesn't play again? Buffalo on the hook for the rest of the contract and insurance may or may not cover it since it wasn't approved nor recommended by the team doctor.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

I mean unless Eichel is willing to forfeit his salary until and if he recovers from the surgery. I can see why teams would have a say in the surgery. So what if this surgery doesn't go as plan and he doesn't play again? Buffalo on the hook for the rest of the contract and insurance may or may not cover it since it wasn't approved nor recommended by the team doctor.

Sounds like, after listening to the neurosurgeon, the fallback if this disc replacement doesn’t work is the disc fusion.  So doesn’t it make sense to do the replacement?  Plus, it sure seems the medical evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of disc replacement.  The fusion option has a 25% chance of needing further surgery every 10 years.  The replacement method is less than 5%.  Thats a very significant difference.  This doctor is considering Eichel’s life after hockey too.  Are the Sabre’s?  

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

I mean unless Eichel is willing to forfeit his salary until and if he recovers from the surgery. I can see why teams would have a say in the surgery. So what if this surgery doesn't go as plan and he doesn't play again? Buffalo on the hook for the rest of the contract and insurance may or may not cover it since it wasn't approved nor recommended by the team doctor.

at the end of the day tho its his body, he's not getting another one. He has to live with the consequences, whereas for Buffalo its a write down.

 

For me, a persons health should trump all other considerations if things have reached this sort of impasse. 

[RWJC]

Pardon my ignorance here, but If it comes down to it, couldn’t Eichel really put the screws to the Sabres and announce his “retirement”. They would be stuck with his contract of 10mill per year on LTIR until end of term 25-26. He could then immediately have the surgery he wants, rehab it and train with a Euro team or sit on his rear and collect a nice pay check. That’s a long time to not play though and I believe him to be a competitive type player. 
 

Or BUF could then just give up and trade his LTIR cap hit, and after which Eichel can obtain medical clearances to return to the NHL. 
 

Or couldn’t he just decide to have the surgery and take BUF ownership/mgmt to court to have the contract nullified (I mean, he’s a contracted athlete but this is also a personal health decision, no?) Then return as a free agent and perhaps get a max value deal from a team who doesn’t have to give up any assets?
 

His NMC doesn’t kick in until 22-23.

 

Are these even last resort options or would it be considered cap circumvention?  Kovy and NJD got away with it. Are there new conditions in place in the CBA to restrict/prevent this? I’m sure Bettman would be all over BUF to move him and avoid the media spectacle, especially considering he’s a young star of the league.

 

Could someone please clarify for me?

Im just trying to figure out if/how Eichel could punish the Sabres for this and what the cost would be to himself.

Thanks in advance!

[Millerdraft]

This is such a crock of $&!#.  Just let Eichel do the surgery he prefers.  Fusing vertebrae impacts range of motion and thereby impacts Eichel’s peripheral vision/playmaking.  Either way the surgery will impact his trade value.  
 

Kevyn, take the loss already and move on.  The team is gonna suck for another five years at least anyway!

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Pardon my ignorance here, but If it comes down to it, couldn’t Eichel really put the screws to the Sabres and announce his “retirement”. They would be stuck with his contract of 10mill per year on LTIR until end of term 25-26. He could then immediately have the surgery he wants, rehab it and train with a Euro team or sit on his rear and collect a nice pay check. That’s a long time to not play though and I believe him to be a competitive type player. 
 

Or BUF could then just give up and trade his LTIR cap hit, and after which Eichel can obtain medical clearances to return to the NHL. 
 

Or couldn’t he just decide to have the surgery and take BUF ownership/mgmt to court to have the contract nullified (I mean, he’s a contracted athlete but this is also a personal health decision, no?) Then return as a free agent and perhaps get a max value deal from a team who doesn’t have to give up any assets?
 

His NMC doesn’t kick in until 22-23.

 

Are these even last resort options or would it be considered cap circumvention?  Kovy and NJD got away with it. Are there new conditions in place in the CBA to restrict/prevent this? I’m sure Bettman would be all over BUF to move him and avoid the media spectacle, especially considering he’s a young star of the league.

 

Could someone please clarify for me?

Im just trying to figure out if/how Eichel could punish the Sabres for this and what the cost would be to himself.

Thanks in advance!

If he retires he doesn’t get paid.  Guys who say they are retiring, who still have contracts, are not formally retired.  They are considered injured and not able to play - LTI.  Jack will be put on LTI if the Sabres don’t trade him, or allow him the surgery he prefers.  In his current condition he can’t play.  The Sabres are completely screwed here, and should allow Jack t9 get the disc replacement.  Then he can get back to playing, and be traded.  

[RWJC]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If he retires he doesn’t get paid.  Guys who say they are retiring, who still have contracts, are not formally retired.  They are considered injured and not able to play - LTI.  Jack will be put on LTI if the Sabres don’t trade him, or allow him the surgery he prefers.  In his current condition he can’t play.  The Sabres are completely screwed here, and should allow Jack t9 get the disc replacement.  Then he can get back to playing, and be traded.  

Thanks Alf, apologies, I’m having a brain fart. Of course he doesn’t get paid if he retires. What I mean to ask is what can he do that doesn’t undermine his value but still sticks it to BUF.

 

Was trying to find this info online but basically the talk only surrounds trade packages and not what the alternatives might be aside from returning to play for BUF in anticipation of a trade.
 

Thanks!

 

K back to the crack pipe I go. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by RWJC

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Thanks Alf, apologies, I’m having a brain fart. Of course he doesn’t get paid if he retires. What I mean to ask is what can he do that doesn’t undermine his value but still sticks it to BUF.

 

Was trying to find this info online but basically the talk only surrounds trade packages and not what the alternatives might be aside from returning to play for BUF in anticipation of a trade.
 

Thanks!

 

K back to the crack pipe I go. 

I don’t understand why the Sabres don’t allow Jack to just get the surgery he wants?  

[Millerdraft]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don’t understand why the Sabres don’t allow Jack to just get the surgery he wants?  

They’re being greedy in their asking price and don’t want any potential of surgical complications impeding that ask.  It can be viewed as both smart AND shortsighted depending on how you view their stance.

[Elias Pettersson]

Wow, Eichel at 24 already needs an artificial disc replacement.  Those thing don't last and at some point he will have to have another one put in.  

 

Not sure how you can play professional hockey after that surgery.  He would be at great risk to need to have it done again in a few years time if not sooner based on the wear and tear of being a professional athlete.

 

Derek Dorsett had a similar issue.  He had cervical fusion surgery which was the standard back in the day.  Dorsett had to retire a year after his surgery.  No NHL player has actually had artificial disc replacement surgery which is relatively new.  So no one will know how it will work long term for a hockey player. 

 

At $10 million a season Eichel may be untradeable at this point.  Huge risk to any team taking on that salary and taking on Eichel.  

[J-Dizzle]

1 hour ago, Millerdraft said:

They’re being greedy in their asking price and don’t want any potential of surgical complications impeding that ask.  It can be viewed as both smart AND shortsighted depending on how you view their stance.

This definitely isn’t the first fallout between a player and a team… but this may be the first one I can think of that I could see numerous players taking note of and being far more hesitant to play for that management group. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wow, Eichel at 24 already needs an artificial disc replacement.  Those thing don't last and at some point he will have to have another one put in.  

 

Not sure how you can play professional hockey after that surgery.  He would be at great risk to need to have it done again in a few years time if not sooner based on the wear and tear of being a professional athlete.

 

Derek Dorsett had a similar issue.  He had cervical fusion surgery which was the standard back in the day.  Dorsett had to retire a year after his surgery.  No NHL player has actually had artificial disc replacement surgery which is relatively new.  So no one will know how it will work long term for a hockey player. 

 

At $10 million a season Eichel may be untradeable at this point.  Huge risk to any team taking on that salary and taking on Eichel.  

I think the only way he gets traded is if its call for conditional picks. E.g, 2022 and 2023 conditional 1sts if he plays full seasons, something like that. Otherwise I don't think GMs will touch this with upfront assets. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think the only way he gets traded is if its call for conditional picks. E.g, 2022 and 2023 conditional 1sts if he plays full seasons, something like that. Otherwise I don't think GMs will touch this with upfront assets. 

Yeah the other thing to mention is that if he ends up on LTIR the contract will probably not be insurable as the injury history will already be known and with an artificial disc replacement no insurance company will touch that contract.  So even conditional picks are risky because Eichel could end up on LTIR 2-3 years from now and the owner that traded for him will have to pay $20-30 million of his salary while he's not even playing.