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[Rumour] Sam Reinhart open to a trade back to West Coast


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7 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Less likely we’re getting at superstar at 9.

 

My guess is the pressure will be felt by Benning to make big moves. A top 10 pick will be his biggest trading chip. No way he doesn’t explore trading it.

 

 

I'll join the Fire Benning guys if we move this pick.  Way too many guys I like in that range.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Less likely we’re getting at superstar at 9.

 

My guess is the pressure will be felt by Benning to make big moves. A top 10 pick will be his biggest trading chip. No way he doesn’t explore trading it.

 

 

Yeah, this aggressive off season reminds me of the Laffs seasons under Burkie who was task to retool the Laffs and one of his first major move, was to trade for Phil Kessel for two first rounders (#2 in 2010 - Seguin and #9 in 2011 - Hamilton) as major parts - just seems odd that JB was part of the Bruins executive team that made that trade.   With hindsight, that failed quick retool, still ended up in a full (organizational) rebuild until they finally drafted 1st on 2016 - Matthews. 

 

 Imo, the one caveat, is the Canucks young core and if they will continue to trend in the right direction to be inline with JBs' time table ?

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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14 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, this aggressive off season reminds me of the Laffs seasons under Burkie who was task to retool the Laffs and one of his first major move, was to trade for Phil Kessel for two first rounders (#2 in 2010 - Seguin and #9 in 2011 - Hamilton) as major parts - just seems odd that JB was part of the Bruins executive team that made that trade.   With hindsight, that failed quick retool, still ended up in a full (organizational) rebuild until they finally drafted 1st on 2016 - Matthews. 

 

 Imo, the one caveat, is the Canucks young core and if they will continue to trend in the right direction to be inline with JBs' time table ?

Comparison to Burke's Maple Leafs is an interesting one.

 

Retool doesn't work unless your team already has core pieces.

 

Maple Leafs retool failed because they didn't have any core piece to start with. Burkie tried to build a core on-they-fly by acquiring Kessel and few others, which failed badly for them and they had to rebuild.

 

Couple of teams that I think retooled successfully are Blues and Bruins.

 

Blues had Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Schenn. They retooled around the core by adding some younger players, Binnington, Parayko, Schwartz and acquired O'Reilly.

 

Bruins had Bergeron, Marchand, Krejic, Chara, and Rask. Added McAvoy, Pasta, Debrusk as well as other pieces. They haven't won but they did go to the cup finals.

 

Of course, there are the Penguins, who can retool as long as Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are good to go, similarly with Washington with Ovi, Backstrom, and Carlsson. But not everyone has generational talents to retool around and that's why I think Blues and Bruins retool was more noteworthy.

 

We have the core pieces. So our retool has a good chance to succeed.

 

Question is whether JB is the best person to pull this off. 

 

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37 minutes ago, khay said:

Comparison to Burke's Maple Leafs is an interesting one.

 

Retool doesn't work unless your team already has core pieces.

 

Maple Leafs retool failed because they didn't have any core piece to start with. Burkie tried to build a core on-they-fly by acquiring Kessel and few others, which failed badly for them and they had to rebuild.

 

Couple of teams that I think retooled successfully are Blues and Bruins.

 

Blues had Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Schenn. They retooled around the core by adding some younger players, Binnington, Parayko, Schwartz and acquired O'Reilly.

 

Bruins had Bergeron, Marchand, Krejic, Chara, and Rask. Added McAvoy, Pasta, Debrusk as well as other pieces. They haven't won but they did go to the cup finals.

 

Of course, there are the Penguins, who can retool as long as Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are good to go, similarly with Washington with Ovi, Backstrom, and Carlsson. But not everyone has generational talents to retool around and that's why I think Blues and Bruins retool was more noteworthy.

 

We have the core pieces. So our retool has a good chance to succeed.

 

Question is whether JB is the best person to pull this off. 

 

Great context & points: I had also been looking at a few teams history with there rebuilds & retool.  Interesting, that you mentioned the Bruins cause it seems that despite Chiapet, it was really the two AGM: JB & Donato that build that roster; and with the Canucks the two AGM are: Weisbrod & Chris Gear - seems to be the same situation with the staff and the Assts supporting Green: Baumer & Brown.  I don’t know too much about Gear but he seems to be in charge of contract negotiations due to his legal background and Weisbrod is more of a known commodity.

 

Ditto and I did mention the one caveat that might buck the trend for the Canucks is there young core & prospect pool.  Just hoping for a balance approach and some reflection of the past when making any trades or signings.

 

 

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, this aggressive off season reminds me of the Laffs seasons under Burkie who was task to retool the Laffs and one of his first major move, was to trade for Phil Kessel for two first rounders (#2 in 2010 - Seguin and #9 in 2011 - Hamilton) as major parts - just seems odd that JB was part of the Bruins executive team that made that trade.   With hindsight, that failed quick retool, still ended up in a full (organizational) rebuild until they finally drafted 1st on 2016 - Matthews. 

 

 Imo, the one caveat, is the Canucks young core and if they will continue to trend in the right direction to be inline with JBs' time table ?

I think “agressive” in this context means realizing major changes need to be done.

 

Our kids are mighty fine; Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Höglander, Demko…

 

Juolevi will have a major up curve, Podkolzin will probably surprise everyone on how ready he is…

 

…and Virtanen will become a full-on Covid-struck bar whore and disappear into the Vancouver night.

 

B0281DCD-FAD8-4D78-8BE2-29F9A7465516.jpeg

 

I’m pretty sure Benning will keep his bread-and-butter 1st pick, but anything else can be had for the right price.

 

Personally, I love Miller’s game. But that’s it. 
 

Anything else to me, could be available for transaction; buyouts, not re-signing players, trades and promotions.

 

Edited by Me_
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7 hours ago, khay said:

Comparison to Burke's Maple Leafs is an interesting one.

 

Retool doesn't work unless your team already has core pieces.

 

Maple Leafs retool failed because they didn't have any core piece to start with. Burkie tried to build a core on-they-fly by acquiring Kessel and few others, which failed badly for them and they had to rebuild.

 

Couple of teams that I think retooled successfully are Blues and Bruins.

 

Blues had Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Schenn. They retooled around the core by adding some younger players, Binnington, Parayko, Schwartz and acquired O'Reilly.

 

Bruins had Bergeron, Marchand, Krejic, Chara, and Rask. Added McAvoy, Pasta, Debrusk as well as other pieces. They haven't won but they did go to the cup finals.

 

Of course, there are the Penguins, who can retool as long as Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are good to go, similarly with Washington with Ovi, Backstrom, and Carlsson. But not everyone has generational talents to retool around and that's why I think Blues and Bruins retool was more noteworthy.

 

We have the core pieces. So our retool has a good chance to succeed.

 

Question is whether JB is the best person to pull this off. 

 

Blues have been bounced out of the playoffs a couple of times now. This time, they just got swept. It remains to be seen if their retool is actually working.

 

Bruins largely failed with their three first round picks lol. But they are good. I think they're really that only ones that have successfully retooled so far, provided they don't get kicked out the playoffs early.

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6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Blues have been bounced out of the playoffs a couple of times now. This time, they just got swept. It remains to be seen if their retool is actually working.

 

Bruins largely failed with their three first round picks lol. But they are good. I think they're really that only ones that have successfully retooled so far, provided they don't get kicked out the playoffs early.

Yeah, the success of the process seems to point to the leadership and what decision(s) were at the time the issue was identified - some leaders can draw from experience or an inborn instinct called foresight or both (if lucky).  Imo, a good hockey executive has to be a student of the game and with it - the respect for the game to make the hard decision(s) for long term success.  Most often these executives are initially vilified in the beginning but in the long run - they eventually gain there reputation.   

 

At this point, only the cores continued developement and the influx of cheap (but legit) prospects into the lineup are the main reason the team is still trending in the right direction. 

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1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Blues have been bounced out of the playoffs a couple of times now. This time, they just got swept. It remains to be seen if their retool is actually working.

 

Bruins largely failed with their three first round picks lol. But they are good. I think they're really that only ones that have successfully retooled so far, provided they don't get kicked out the playoffs early.

If we retool like the Blues and end up with only 1 Stanley Cup, I'd be fine with that.

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1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Blues have been bounced out of the playoffs a couple of times now. This time, they just got swept. It remains to be seen if their retool is actually working.

 

Bruins largely failed with their three first round picks lol. But they are good. I think they're really that only ones that have successfully retooled so far, provided they don't get kicked out the playoffs early.

I was referring to their rebound after reaching WCF in 2016.

 

They had good core, then added Schenn via trade and O'Reilly. I think they brought Perron back as well. Some young guys continued to develop and became core contributors, ultimately winning it in 2019 against all odds.

 

Now, some of their core pieces like Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester are gone. Whether they rebuild or retool remains to be seen.

 

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On 5/26/2021 at 7:32 AM, Me_ said:

I think “agressive” in this context means realizing major changes need to be done.

 

Our kids are mighty fine; Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Höglander, Demko…

 

Juolevi will have a major up curve, Podkolzin will probably surprise everyone on how ready he is…

 

…and Virtanen will become a full-on Covid-struck bar whore and disappear into the Vancouver night.

 

B0281DCD-FAD8-4D78-8BE2-29F9A7465516.jpeg

 

I’m pretty sure Benning will keep his bread-and-butter 1st pick, but anything else can be had for the right price.

 

Personally, I love Miller’s game. But that’s it. 
 

Anything else to me, could be available for transaction; buyouts, not re-signing players, trades and promotions.

 

Jake looks like he’s trying to exclaim how big a rail he just did...

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On 5/26/2021 at 6:17 PM, Maverick84 said:

I really have a feeling that Benning is going to try and ship out picks and Juolevi+ a forward prospect for Reinhart

I think it is very possible that Benning tries to trade for Reinhart.

 

Remember Benning tried to trade for Reinhart at the 2014 draft but said the price was too high.

 

I don't doubt he will take a look at it again. 25 years old is a good fit with our core. I don't like trading a top 10 pick but depending on who is available if this deal presents itself without too much in add ons (probably a roster player and prospect) then I can absolutely see it happening.

 

 

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On 5/26/2021 at 6:17 PM, Maverick84 said:

I really have a feeling that Benning is going to try and ship out picks and Juolevi+ a forward prospect for Reinhart

Agreed. I think JT is a good comparable and I know people say it was cause of the cap situation but from everything I read JT was not the one they were looking to move and the fact they had just re-signed him seems to point to that. So based on the fact JT and Sam are comparable and JT was locked in to a great contract I think a fair offer would be a 1st, (2022 lottery protected) a 2nd and a 3rd, or if we send back a cap dump add another 2nd. Any prospect not named Rathbone or Podz should be on the table as well. Adding Sam opens up so many possibilities allowing JT or Horvat to create a true 3rd line that would feast on weaker matchups, or open up easier competition for the top line.

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8 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

Agreed. I think JT is a good comparable and I know people say it was cause of the cap situation but from everything I read JT was not the one they were looking to move and the fact they had just re-signed him seems to point to that. So based on the fact JT and Sam are comparable and JT was locked in to a great contract I think a fair offer would be a 1st, (2022 lottery protected) a 2nd and a 3rd, or if we send back a cap dump add another 2nd. Any prospect not named Rathbone or Podz should be on the table as well. Adding Sam opens up so many possibilities allowing JT or Horvat to create a true 3rd line that would feast on weaker matchups, or open up easier competition for the top line.

It does seem to make some sense if we don’t win the lottery in the draft to use the pick as currency. We need cheap ELC players but we also need to start improving quickly before getting more of a reputation for being a mess around the league.

 

Of course, depending on how the market views 1st round picks this year... they could hold less value than normal and it could even make sense to picks up more 1st round picks instead of sending any out.

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1 minute ago, Provost said:

It does seem to make some sense if we don’t win the lottery in the draft to use the pick as currency. We need cheap ELC players but we also need to start improving quickly before getting more of a reputation for being a mess around the league.

 

Of course, depending on how the market views 1st round picks this year... they could hold less value than normal and it could even make sense to picks up more 1st round picks instead of sending any out.

If you had to choose between this year's pick or next what would you prefer? I can't decide but am leaning towards next year's as long as it's protected.

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1 minute ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

If you had to choose between this year's pick or next what would you prefer? I can't decide but am leaning towards next year's as long as it's protected.

Later picks are always better, but you also have to consider the other side... they aren’t going to want to settle for a pick that doesn’t happen for a year that will net them a prospect that “might” help them a further 2 years down the line.

 

A guaranteed #9 overall is a lot more enticing, especially when you have to send money the other way to afford it under the cap.

 

We aren’t even sure that Buffalo wants futures.  They might want to do a hockey trade and be moving futures out to improve in the short term.  They have been bad so long the fans and other players probably aren’t ready for another full rebuild.

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50 minutes ago, Provost said:

Later picks are always better, but you also have to consider the other side... they aren’t going to want to settle for a pick that doesn’t happen for a year that will net them a prospect that “might” help them a further 2 years down the line.

 

A guaranteed #9 overall is a lot more enticing, especially when you have to send money the other way to afford it under the cap.

 

We aren’t even sure that Buffalo wants futures.  They might want to do a hockey trade and be moving futures out to improve in the short term.  They have been bad so long the fans and other players probably aren’t ready for another full rebuild.

too late, its already here .

 

The only guy of high value we have full control to move is Miller. Miller for SR isn't an upgrade offensively. I think its a lock any of our guys with M-NTCs have Buffalo on their no-go list. 

 

I think in this case, the only way we get Sammy is for our 1st this year and some lesser assets. 

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

Later picks are always better, but you also have to consider the other side... they aren’t going to want to settle for a pick that doesn’t happen for a year that will net them a prospect that “might” help them a further 2 years down the line.

 

A guaranteed #9 overall is a lot more enticing, especially when you have to send money the other way to afford it under the cap.

 

We aren’t even sure that Buffalo wants futures.  They might want to do a hockey trade and be moving futures out to improve in the short term.  They have been bad so long the fans and other players probably aren’t ready for another full rebuild.

Kevyn Adams says they are going to build their team with players who want to be there.  He admitted that they have players who want to move on or are indifferent but have others who really want to be part of their future (Cozens made quite the statement).  It's believed that Eichel, Ristolainen and Reinhart are on their way out.

 

He says their issue is that they have a lot of good players but they haven't meshed to build something bigger than themselves.  He insists that they are not only looking to bring in the right players but the right persons.  It sounds like a rebuild where they are going to try and get their culture right.

Guys looking to hit UFA to bolt or who are going to pout because they end up in Buffalo probably not on their wish list.

 

Could see Buffalo asking to talk to players especially veterans before making any trade - not sure their trade partner would want to grant that request but from Buffalo's side it would make sense.  They need to find players who want to try and build something there or they'll never get out of the hole they are in.

 

Ottawa looks to have something good going with their young players - might be the way to go for Buffalo too.

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