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Israelis and Hamas Conflict/ Netanyahu Out as PM - Coalition Led by Bennett Take Over


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To get back on the topic of the crisis rather than the debate about the morality of religion the below is from the BBC and is a reasonable summary of what causes this flashpoint.

 

What caused violence?

The fighting between Israel and Hamas was triggered by days of escalating clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police at a holy hilltop compound in East Jerusalem.

The site is revered by both Muslims, who call it the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary), and Jews, for whom it is known as the Temple Mount. Hamas demanded Israel remove police from there and the nearby predominantly Arab district of Sheikh Jarrah, where Palestinian families face eviction by Jewish settlers. Hamas launched rockets when its ultimatum went unheeded.

Palestinian anger had already been stoked by weeks of rising tension in East Jerusalem, inflamed by a series of confrontations with police since the start of Ramadan in mid-April.

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BBCCopyright: BBC

It was further fuelled by Israel's annual celebration of its capture of East Jerusalem in the 1967 Middle East war, known as Jerusalem Day.

The fate of the city, with its deep religious and national significance to both sides, lies at the heart of the decades-old Israel-Palestinian conflict. Israel in effect annexed East Jerusalem in 1980 and considers the entire city its capital, though this is not recognised by the vast majority of other countries.

Palestinians claim the eastern half of Jerusalem as the capital of a hoped-for state of their own.

 

———-

 

the evictions are part of the illegal occupation of East Jerusalem (not my words but those from the UN) and some of these families would have been living in the area for over a 1000 years 

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20 hours ago, Wayne Glensky said:

I find it quite baffling the amount of people supporting the Palestinian backed Hamas group. Do they not understand that this is a Jihadi fundamentalist terrorist organization that is using hospitals, crowded public spaces, woman and children as shields ? Israel has every right to defend itself yet these progressive socialists are screaming bloody murder that Isreal decided to fight back. What a world we live in. 

I find it quite baffling that someone actually believes one side is clearly at fault for this mess.

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20 hours ago, Wayne Glensky said:

I find it quite baffling the amount of people supporting the Palestinian backed Hamas group. Do they not understand that this is a Jihadi fundamentalist terrorist organization that is using hospitals, crowded public spaces, woman and children as shields ? Israel has every right to defend itself yet these progressive socialists are screaming bloody murder that Isreal decided to fight back. What a world we live in. 

Nobody is defending Hamas, but Hamas themselves were born out of Israel's crimes against Palestine and it's people. There's only so much that a people are willing to take. Does it make their methods right? Of course not. But there's a clear aggressor in this decades long conflict and in most cases it isn't Palestine.

 

Israel decided to fight back? Israel decided it could take what it wanted because they allegedly have a God-given right to the Holy Land. International law and general decency doesn't apply to them. The term 'apartheid' shouldn't be used lightly but what they've done to the Palestinian people isn't far off it. You could even extend that to Israeli Arabs, who are often treated like second-class citizens.

 

The most baffling thing isn't people sympathising with Palestine. It's the reluctance of people to criticise Israel in the fear of being labeled anti-Semitic. What a world we live in indeed.

 

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6 hours ago, drummer4now said:

it has to have some sort of truth to it if it has been spoken about for centuries across various cultures and religions.

You mean like:

Santa

Easter Bunny

Tooth Fairy

obviously real, because they've been talked about in multiple countries for hundreds of years?

 

Please leave out the uneducated digs, and inteligence putdowns when, or if, you respond. Keep it civil, like educated people.

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9 hours ago, 4petesake said:


Here’s one of his thoughts on religion. (Needs to be read hearing George’s voice.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

59lxl2.jpg

Yup thats George telling it like it is

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So israel flattened the AP and press building.....

 

Israel has the right ot defend itself from reporters and live coverage

 

As of this moment with the associated press building completely flattened much of the live coverage of the area from palestine is now impossible

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1 hour ago, gurn said:

You mean like:

Santa

Easter Bunny

Tooth Fairy

obviously real, because they've been talked about in multiple countries for hundreds of years?

 

Please leave out the uneducated digs, and inteligence putdowns when, or if, you respond. Keep it civil, like educated people.

He's also just wrong on the matter. At least in the US. People with degrees are less likely to be religious. However, of Christians those with degrees are more likely to regularly attend mass/church on a regular basis.  That may be because they don't have to work on Sundays..

 

Signed, 

 

The guy with a master's degree who hates religion. 

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3 hours ago, D-Money said:

I find it quite baffling that someone actually believes one side is clearly at fault for this mess.

Yep

 

This figure alone shows the human cost of lives, yet it’s clearly one sides fault 

2DECC5FD-F916-4BC7-AF92-9BA3430EDEB1.jpeg

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46 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So israel flattened the AP and press building.....

 

Israel has the right ot defend itself from reporters and live coverage

 

As of this moment with the associated press building completely flattened much of the live coverage of the area from palestine is now impossible


This gif is not meant to be disrespectful to the situation  but it speaks to the effort to keep it from public view.

 

 

 

 

59cz9m.gif

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4 minutes ago, 4petesake said:


This gif is not meant to be disrespectful to the situation  but it speaks to the effort to keep it from public view.

 

 

 

 

59cz9m.gif

I’m guessing they don’t want any more Faris Odeh stories coming out 

1547C4A6-86BF-41BB-84A8-097E2135C896.jpeg

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On 5/13/2021 at 8:37 PM, Alflives said:

Muslims and Jews; Palestinians and Israelis.  These people believe in the very same God, right?  They can share the same God, but not the same land?  The fighting between these two groups has got to get fixed.  

They share the same ancestor, Abraham. They don't share the same God. Without getting into the weeds, the Jews descend from Isaac and claim Yahweh as their God, the Arabs/some Palestinians descend from Ishmael and claim Allah as their God.

 

Most Jews and Arabs share the same lineage, but not the same God.

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9 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

They share the same ancestor, Abraham. They don't share the same God. Without getting into the weeds, the Jews descend from Isaac and claim Yahweh as their God, the Arabs/some Palestinians descend from Ishmael and claim Allah as their God.

 

Most Jews and Arabs share the same lineage, but not the same God.

The god is one and the same however how they view/perceive that god is different. The origins about how both came to view the god is different but they both view their god as the god of Abraham/ibrahim. 
 

it’s worth noting that the only other religion which Judaism doesn’t class as idolatry is Islam - and apart from a few fringe groups it is actually permissible for a person of Jewish faith to not only enter a mosque but to pray in one 

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5 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

The god is one and the same however how they view/perceive that god is different. The origins about how both came to view the god is different but they both view their god as the god of Abraham/ibrahim. 
 

it’s worth noting that the only other religion which Judaism doesn’t class as idolatry is Islam - and apart from a few fringe groups it is actually permissible for a person of Jewish faith to not only enter a mosque but to pray in one 

With all due respect, one's perception of God doesn't necessarily define the reality of God. Both Jews and Arabs may claim their doctrine/faith is a modern expression of Abraham's faith, but a close examination of both faiths will reveal irreconcilable differences. Regardless of perception, existing contradictions dictate that both can't be true. If neither are true, then both are false.

 

Thousands of Jews/Arabs in Israel and throughout the world today accept neither modern Rabbinic Judaism or Islam as being a true expression of the faith of Abraham. Modern day Rabbinic Judaism and it's faith wasn't formally established until after the destruction of the Jewish Temple by the Romans in 70 AD, followed by Islam six centuries later.

 

That being the case, the modern Jewish faith It isn't the same faith as the faith that was practiced by Jews before the common era. Many modern Rabbinic/Sufi scholars may attempt to blur the lines between the two faiths, but unfortunately for them, neither history nor the God of Abraham is on their side.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

They share the same ancestor, Abraham. They don't share the same God. Without getting into the weeds, the Jews descend from Isaac and claim Yahweh as their God, the Arabs/some Palestinians descend from Ishmael and claim Allah as their God.

 

Most Jews and Arabs share the same lineage, but not the same God.

Interesting you believe this.  

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1 minute ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

With all due respect, one's perception of God doesn't necessarily define the reality of God. Both Jews and Arabs may claim their doctrine/faith is a modern expression of Abraham's faith, but a close examination of both faiths will reveal irreconcilable differences. Regardless of perception, existing contradictions dictate that both can't be true. If neither are true, then both are false.

 

Thousands of Jews/Arabs in Israel and throughout the world today accept neither modern Rabbinic Judaism or Islam as being a true expression of the faith of Abraham. Modern day Rabbinic Judaism and it's faith wasn't formally established until after the destruction of the Jewish Temple by the Romans in 70 AD, followed by Islam six centuries later.

 

That being the case, the modern Jewish faith It isn't the same faith as the faith that was practiced by Jews before the common era. Many modern Rabbinic/Sufi scholars may attempt to blur the lines between the two faiths, but unfortunately for them, neither history nor the God of Abraham is on their side.

 

 

 

 

With all due respect To say that they worship the same God is not the same as insisting that they have an agreed and shared understanding of God, same with Christianity.

 

the God is the same how they perceive and view that god is fundamentally different, it doesn’t change the fact that they believe that Abraham’s god is their god. Unless you are saying that Abraham worshiped multiple gods?

 

Most view that the god is the same, even the Pope has said as much, yea their will be fringe groups/fundamentalists that deny it across all three, but sharing the same god (the god of Abraham) still means there can be significant differences in interpretation as to what that god is about.

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8 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

Yep

 

This figure alone shows the human cost of lives, yet it’s clearly one sides fault 

2DECC5FD-F916-4BC7-AF92-9BA3430EDEB1.jpeg

Thanks for posting this.

 

I am aware of the human cost of this  conflict however one must also take into account the quality of life of the people involved.

On side we have people living lives similar to our own albeit with the threat of missile attack now and again though Israel's iron dome anti- missile defence system negates much of that threat.

 

On the other side you have people that are living in what the International Red Cross and other organisations describe as a humanitarian crisis.

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I have been reading the book Jewish Terrorism in Israel written by Ami Pedahzur and Arie Perliger.

 

The foreword for this book states "they are world experts on the study of terror and security,they propose a theory of violence that contextualizes not only recent acts of terror but also instances of terrorism that stretch back centuries.

Beginning with ancient Palestine and its encounters with Jewish Terrorism,the authors analyze the cultural factors that sponsor extreme violence,proving religious terrorism is not the fault of one faith but flourishes within any counterculture that adheres to a totalistic ideology.

When a totalistic community perceives an external threat the connectivity of that group and the rhetoric of its leaders bolster the collective mindset of members who respond with violence.

In ancient times the Jewish Sicarii of Judea carried out stealth assassinations of their Roman occupiers.

In the mid 20th century,to facilitate their independence,Jewish groups committed acts of terror against British soldiers and the Arab population in Palestine.

More recently,Yigal Amir,a member of a Jewish terrorist cell, assassinated Yitzhak Rabin to express his opposition to the Oslo peace accords.

 

Conducting interviews with former Jewish terrorist's,political and spiritual leaders and law enforcement officials,and culling information from rare documents and surveys of terrorist networks Pedahzur and Perliger construct an extensive portrait of terrorist aggression while also describing the conditions behind the rise of modern zealotry".

 

 

Like most of the books I purchase I found it in one of my secondhand book shops and got it for 5 bucks.

 

The more I read of this book the more I apply the information contained in it to the situation in the United States.

 

One can see why these 2 societies are so closely aligned.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Scottish⑦Canuck said:

Nobody is defending Hamas, but Hamas themselves were born out of Israel's crimes against Palestine and it's people. There's only so much that a people are willing to take. Does it make their methods right? Of course not. But there's a clear aggressor in this decades long conflict and in most cases it isn't Palestine.

 

Israel decided to fight back? Israel decided it could take what it wanted because they allegedly have a God-given right to the Holy Land. International law and general decency doesn't apply to them. The term 'apartheid' shouldn't be used lightly but what they've done to the Palestinian people isn't far off it. You could even extend that to Israeli Arabs, who are often treated like second-class citizens.

 

The most baffling thing isn't people sympathising with Palestine. It's the reluctance of people to criticise Israel in the fear of being labeled anti-Semitic. What a world we live in indeed.

 

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. They were founded in 1928, before Israel came into being.

 

Hamas is also funded by external forces, notably Iran.

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3 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Thanks for posting this.

 

I am aware of the human cost of this  conflict however one must also take into account the quality of life of the people involved.

On side we have people living lives similar to our own albeit with the threat of missile attack now and again though Israel's iron dome anti- missile defence system negates much of that threat.

 

On the other side you have people that are living in what the International Red Cross and other organisations describe as a humanitarian crisis.

I know, I’m all about context. This isn’t a simple issue, nor one a 5 second google can give you the answers for. 
 

we studied this as part of my degree and even I am only scratching the surface, and I try and keep up with affairs.

 

 

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